17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #27

[SuziQ]

:floorlaugh: This made me think of a case in California, where a guy told his family and new young wife he was going to college to become a lawyer IIRC he forged papers from the college and told many many lies until his wife did a little checking and found out he had lied about the whole thing, then he told more lies to cover the old ones. well it was one big mess, and just goes to show that some will lie about anything. JMO

Mark Hacking did this. He sent out graduation invites and let his family plan a celebration. Pretended to be sick the day of graduation. Then when Laurie eventually found out he killed her to keep her from telling anyone.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I am SURE I wouldn't pass a polygraph. If you haven't noticed, I'm one of those people for whom...ahem...nothing is just that simple. I've got to think about it until it's pulvarized into tiny little particles that defy further thought and then articulate every step in that process :blushing: I would fail for that reason, I'm sure of it. Unless...j/k

Yes! I can see that! That's a good way to be! But... myself... I would be just so dang nervous and I may even get angry if someone was confronting me with a nasty demeanor and accusing me of something and then I could burst into tears! My emotions would be all over the place. I couldn't do it! I want a lawyer! Even if I am 100% innocent!

 

[HiHater]

http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/hearsay-rule/

However, there are numerous exceptions to the hearsay rule. Exceptions include: (I left the ones that could possibly apply here)

1. a spontaneous excited or startled utterance
2. contemporaneous statement which explains the meaning of conduct if the conduct was ambiguous
3. a statement which explains a person's state of mind at the time of an event
4. a statement which explains a person's future intentions
5. a statement made about one's mental set, feeling, pain or health, if the person is not available-most often applied if the declarant is dead
6. other exceptions based on a judge's discretion that the hearsay
7.testimony has surrounding circumstances indicating that it must be reliable.

 

[RANCH]

It would be the same as when Casey told her parents and Lee the revolving story of Caylee's kidnapping. Every single person Casey talked to during those 31 days and the years leading up to trial was allowed to testify as to what she said to them. It went to frame of mind... if I am not mistaken?

MOO

ETA: The only reason I am using the FCA case as reference is because I know a lot of people here followed that case and it's easier to explain since I am not a lawyer and do not not all the legalities.

Yes your right. And how did family and friends testify in that case? And what did the jury decide?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yes your right. And how did family and friends testify in that case? And what did the jury decide?

They LIED!! And the jury (I use that term lightly) BOUGHT IT! :banghead:

But, that is the reason why George telling anyone anything about what happened that night is admissable!

 

[RANCH]

They LIED!! And the jury (I use that term lightly) BOUGHT IT! :banghead:

But, that is the reason why George telling anyone anything about what happened that night is admissable!

Admissible? I was talking about friends and family being credible witness's. I'm not sure if it's going to matter. JMO.

 

[LolaMoon08]

When I go to my niece's graduation I am going to pay extra attention to make sure her name gets called up to the stage! :floorlaugh: I don't think it means anything that I got a Graduation Announcement in the mail? Or that she took her Senior Class pictures? Her Principle was my Dean in High School (love that man!!) and I may just go up to him and ask him exactly what my niece has been doing in school for the past 4 years!

I'm am kidding... kind of... I mean... it's like anyone can make up anything with the technology we have now? It's scary!

 

[jaded cat]

I have searched and consistently found conflicting info on the height and weight of TM and GZ.

TM is either 6' or 6'3". He weighed 150-160.

GZ is either 5'8" or 5'10". He weighed 200-225. I've seen booking info for him at 5'10" and 185. Also seen it for 5'8" and 185.

Does anyone have the accurate info on this?

TIA!

 

[LolaMoon08]

Admissible? I was talking about friends and family being credible witness's. I'm not sure if it's going to matter. JMO.

Oh... I don't think that Frank or Joe will be credible at all!! His parents --- I don't want to really say anything about them because I don't know that much about them? Not trying to sound mean, but I don't even know if they raised him based on comments made about George and his brother being raised by the grandmother? They may not have been that involved in his life? As for the brother --- I think he has a problem with over-exaggeration and that could be a problem?

MOO

 

[csziggy]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think the law would be ruled unconstitutional? I think it's been discussed that it might be repealed, but I'm not sure constitutionality is even in the question so far.

I'm not sure there are any issues concerning the law that would have it be unconstitutional.

In my heart I think it violates the victim's right to due process but then, I am not sure our constitution protects dead people. I just find it offensive on more than one level that when there is a violent death there may be no full examination of the circumstances of that death when SYG can be used to immunize the killer.

Since I have little confidence that the legislatures that have passed SYG laws will repeal them, the idea that it could possibly be found unconstitutional gives me hope they will not stay as part of the American legal system forever. Irrational with no legal basis whatsoever, but my hope.

 

[csziggy]

I just think it needs to be ammended and to be defined a lot more than it is now. It's way too loose in it's definition, IMO.

I think we would all be better off to get rid of SYG and just tweak the previously existing laws. The 'castle' law is well entrenched in our legal system and self defense laws were doing pretty darned good. There were very few cases that justified any changes in those laws and for those few, a little tweaking to the old laws would have done.

This whole new law that added an entirely new concept of 'no retreat' or 'shoot first' is making our country more dangerous and less civil. The practical effect that some violent deaths are not being fully investigated or going through the process to define who was at fault scares me.

IMO, JMO, etc

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Temporary detention is arguably what happened with casey anthony when she was handcuffed and placed in the squad car in front of her house for a few minutes. Temporary investigative detention usually occurs at a traffic stop or the scene of a crime and even then, there are often fights in court as to whether an arrest has occurred. In the classic sense, those are arrests. Practically, they are not always treated as such.

In this case, Zimmerman was handcuffed, placed in a squad car and driven to LE headquarters, still in handcuffs, where he was taken to a room an interrogated by a detective. Guys, that is an arrest.

But it will only matter if he tries to keep certain statements out of court.

And yet, according to the link you just quoted, what Zimmerman experienced would have been classified as a temporary detention, and not an arrest.

A temporary detention occurs when a law enforcement officer restrains a citizen's freedom of movement for a temporary period of time to conduct an investigation. To temporarily detain a citizen, the law enforcement officer must establish facts sufficient to prove that he or she has a reasonable suspicion to believe that the person had committed, was committing or was about to commit a crime. If the law enforcement officer determines, after conducting an investigation, That the person has not committed a crime, then the law enforcement officer must allow the person to go free.

That is exactly what happened to Zimmerman - in fact, it was even referred to specifically as "investigative detention" by Sanford PD. The line for me is, if Zimmerman had decided at any point that he no longer wanted to cooperate and wanted to leave, could they have held him against his will? The language of the statement from Sanford's PD chief, IMO, indicates no.

When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

So once Zimmerman invoked SYG, which it appears he did immediately at the scene of the crime, it seems they didn't feel they had much if any authority to do anything with regard to detaining him against his will. Whether the investigators believed him or not (and it doesn't appear they did), at that point it looks like they were just getting the story straight and filling out paperwork. I think Zimmerman, feeling nice and safe once had wrapped himself in SYG, was perfectly happy to tell his side of the story, wherever they wanted him to tell it.

 

[lauriej]

I agree with Eaton, $20K would be appropriate. Should he be required to sit for a psyche eval? Nope. He hasn't been convicted of anything.

--thank you.

--although, kc wasn't convicted of anything at her july bond hearing----judge S ordered psych evals that day-- by 2 court appointed docs.

 

[m00c0w]

I'm not sure there are any issues concerning the law that would have it be unconstitutional.

In my heart I think it violates the victim's right to due process but then, I am not sure our constitution protects dead people. I just find it offensive on more than one level that when there is a violent death there may be no full examination of the circumstances of that death when SYG can be used to immunize the killer.

Since I have little confidence that the legislatures that have passed SYG laws will repeal them, the idea that it could possibly be found unconstitutional gives me hope they will not stay as part of the American legal system forever. Irrational with no legal basis whatsoever, but my hope.

That's fair enough. Thank you for your reply.

 

[RANCH]

I have searched and consistently found conflicting info on the height and weight of TM and GZ.

TM is either 6' or 6'3". He weighed 150-160.

GZ is either 5'8" or 5'10". He weighed 200-225. I've seen booking info for him at 5'10" and 185. Also seen it for 5'8" and 185.

Does anyone have the accurate info on this?

TIA!

Here's a link to the "Inmate Booking Information" for George Zimmerman. It says he's 5'08" and 185 lbs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/12_04_12zimmerman_booking_report.pdf

 

[PaintingAnemone]

I have searched and consistently found conflicting info on the height and weight of TM and GZ.

TM is either 6' or 6'3". He weighed 150-160.

GZ is either 5'8" or 5'10". He weighed 200-225. I've seen booking info for him at 5'10" and 185. Also seen it for 5'8" and 185.

Does anyone have the accurate info on this?

TIA!

Considering that no one seems to have any accurate information on that (people seem to get a kick out of making him taller and heavier), and I haven't seen anything from his family giving an accurate account of his stats, I simply go with what's on the incident report, which is 6'0", and 160lbs.

 

[RANCH]

--thank you.

--although, kc wasn't convicted of anything at her july bond hearing----judge S ordered psych evals that day-- by 2 court appointed docs.

I wonder if that was based on Casey's actions and failure to notify anyone that her daughter was missing for over a month? I don't see a similar situation here. JMO.

 

[jaded cat]

Here's a link to the "Inmate Booking Information" for George Zimmerman. It says he's 5'08" and 185 lbs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/12_04_12zimmerman_booking_report.pdf

Thanks! I saw that and was sure it was right but at some point there was an incorrect listing of him at 5'10". He definitely looks about 5'8" compared to the men standing around him. Also, MO'M is very tall.

Do we have any info on TM? I don't think I've seen an accurate report on him.

 

[Only4Justice]

Considering that no one seems to have any accurate information on that (people seem to get a kick out of making him taller and heavier), and I haven't seen anything from his family giving an accurate account of his stats, I simply go with what's on the incide9nt report, which is 6'0", and 160lbs.

I have a son that same age as Trayvon, and he is 6'3", 215 lbs. He's a big guy. If Trayvone was 6", 160 lbs., that's not that big. I have a 14 year old who weighs 160 at 5'9".

I picture Trayvon as tall and lanky.

JMO

 

[jaded cat]

Considering that no one seems to have any accurate information on that (people seem to get a kick out of making him taller and heavier), and I haven't seen anything from his family giving an accurate account of his stats, I simply go with what's on the incident report, which is 6'0", and 160lbs.

Thanks!