20/20 Special - The List: Who Killed Jonbenet? on 15 Jan 2021

[DeDee]

Respectfully snipped for focus.
the people who believe that a young Burke Ramsey was a sexual deviant, without any evidence; and then also believe he fashioned a garot with not only a broken paint brush that was used in multiple ways to violate and strangle this child is asinine. The knot in the rope was intricate and articulate; that isn’t the work of a child. And while her skull was fractured the autopsy clearly states that her strangulation was the cause of death.

an elaborately knotted tool to garot their child

The BDI theory is popular but not by me. I agree the knots are complicated. A member (Was it @bluebottle?) was able to explain the knots were of the type and placement as used for erotica asphyxiation in such a convincing manner that I believed him. Duct tape on the mouth also could muffle a scream as used for the same application of EA.

there is no doubt she was subdued with a stun gun...

I agree a stun gun was used. I realize Kolar explained quite well that the pins on the train track could cause the round, dark, burn-looking injuries but I still think those injuries were from a stun gun.

So it is quite possible the impression of the shoe wasn’t left when the intruder entered...but when he left, which is also why the suitcase was there, to “boost up” into the window ledge.

The boot print was found in the windowless cellar where the little body was wrapped in a white blanket. Per Steve Thomas, the suitcase was moved so we don't know the exact location of the blue Samsonite before Crime Scene photos were taken.

As a military veteran who deployed numerous times in many locations and trained in many disciplines of defense and tactics...

Thank you for serving our country in such a heroic manner.

I cannot explain away the ransom note, or the ridiculous length of it

No one has been able to effectively explain the "War and Peace" of ransom notes.

I cannot actually explain the “reason” for killing her.

There should never be a motive to murder this healthy, vibrant child. The reason may be sexually motivated by a sadistic person who gained pleasure from the horrific activities performed on JBR.

I don't believe an intruder committed this atrocity. However, the person or persons, for some reason, may have been allowed access to JBR that night and things went terribly wrong. This could explain any foreign DNA. Tricia said in a recent podcast that 7 people had to be involved in order to explain the DNA. (She may have been using sarcasm.)

in context; you have stunned the child, she is unconscious, you have secured her hands and feet; she isn’t an escape risk; you have taped her mouth, she isn’t going to scream. Why crush her head? If it were a kidnapping why assault her in the home? Why not pick her up, take her out of the window, and carry her off?

In almost all EA deaths, the COD is ruled suicide or at least that's what the public is told due to it being less scandalous. Perhaps someone was allowed into the home bc John set the alarm system disallowing an intruder's entry. A lithe Lou, may he rest in peace, was able to enter through the small basement window. Yet it was not an easy feat for him!

This theory would explain the odd ransom note being written inside the home in order to provide a reason why JBR would be found dead. Then, friends were called to come over and allowed clean, make toast and, in general, contaminate the scene.

 

[fr brown]

I kept shouting at the TV... "genealogy" but they want to slowly go through their list.

I think that narrowing down the possibilities is labor-intensive and expensive.

John Ramsey wants or wanted Boulder to pay for it.

 

[Tadpole12]

IDK DeDee,
Wrt to the lithe, LS.
The footage shows him crouched in the window well outside
and then perched on the window sill to dismount.
Never see him making his way through the opening.

 

[fr brown]

Yet, so many 'hear' it when listening to the recording.

Odd that after the Forensic expert's input,
was it San Agustin that comments to the affect
'so what if there are voices'....

I agree with San Agustin on that.

(And I don't hear anything I can identify as words.)

 

[Tadpole12]

I agree with San Agustin on that.

(And I don't hear anything I can identify as words.)

Neither do I fr b.

 

[mickey2942]

What got me was when the 911 operator spoke. IIRC she said that after Patsy had called in hysterics to 911 and told her abt the kidnapping, that instead of hanging up the phone right away Patsy says..'there, I've called the cops, now what do we do next', or something like that.

I was also shocked at how composed they were. When they were first being interviewed, it's like they had no emotion. jmo...it stuck me as very odd.

That is their job, so, if a person gets emotional over every 911 call, that is not the right job for them.

It is sort of interesting, how people who do certain jobs get an almost macabre sense of humor about their work. It is really the only way you can manage the stress, is to completely depersonalize it.

 

[DeDee]

I have no vitriol for him at all. I respect his background and exemplary solve rate. But in this case I believe he is wrong, particularly after reading “Foreign Faction: Who Really Killed Jon Benet”. It’s written by A. James Kolar who was actively involved in the investigation as Investigator for Boulder’s DA office. MOO

Respectfully snipped to interject a story about AJK, whom I also admire, regarding his introduction to the murder investigation.

James Kolar was Town Marshal in Telluride at the time of the December 26, 1996 murder. This position was a promotion as he'd been with the BPD for many years prior.

Town Marshall Kolar received a phone call from an official in Boulder seeking espionage assistance on a difficult case. The caller, who may have been Hunter, requested Kolar to, in essence, spy on the Ramsey's as they were in Telluride skiing with friends.

Kolar would ski on the slopes and camouflage himself among trees, then use high powered binoculars to view the activities of PR and JR and their friends for several days.

After ten years of serving as Town Marshal in Telluride, James Kolar would return to Boulder in June of 2004 as Chief Investigator for Boulder's District Attorney's Office.

There he would remain until March 2006 when he returned to Telluride to spend the next sixteen years serving as Telluride's Town Marshall before retiring in December 2019. He remains a Commander in the TMO Reserve force.

 

[UKGuy]

From ABCs release of "The List" several observations were made. In no particular order:

In the Barbara Walters interview, in explaining how she felt in those first few days after the child's death. Patsy said, "You lose all perception of time and place. You'd just been dealt a horrible, crushing blow."

View attachment 279757

John stated after putting Burke to bed, he set the alarm and went to bed.

View attachment 279758

Why are JonBenet's pupils dilated? A flash of light was used when she's being photographed, correct? In bright light, pupils constrict to prevent too much light from entering your eyes. Other than medication, what would cause the dilatation as not all of her photos depict her with dilated pupils?

View attachment 279759 View attachment 279760

DeDee,

John stated after putting Burke to bed, he set the alarm and went to bed.

Yeah, I'm sure he did, he was kinda busy that night. Somewhere else he says he took some pills and went to bed ahead of Patsy, next thing he knows is Patsy screaming the next morning.

Why are JonBenet's pupils dilated? A flash of light was used when she's being photographed, correct? In bright light, pupils constrict to prevent too much light from entering your eyes. Other than medication, what would cause the dilatation as not all of her photos depict her with dilated pupils?

Could be the photographer editing her photos? Pupil enlargement, sclera (white) tinting, eyebrow adjustment etc, are common practise in pageant photos. Apparently we all unconsciously check this out when looking at a face, e.g. sclera color indicates how healthy you are?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Respectfully snipped to interject a story about AJK, whom I also admire, regarding his introduction to the murder investigation.

James Kolar was Town Marshal in Telluride at the time of the December 26, 1996 murder. This position was a promotion as he'd been with the BPD for many years prior.

Town Marshall Kolar received a phone call from an official in Boulder seeking espionage assistance on a difficult case. The caller, who may have been Hunter, requested Kolar to, in essence, spy on the Ramsey's as they were in Telluride skiing with friends.

Kolar would ski on the slopes and camouflage himself among trees, then use high powered binoculars to view the activities of PR and JR and their friends for several days.

After ten years of serving as Town Marshal in Telluride, James Kolar would return to Boulder in June of 2004 as Chief Investigator for Boulder's District Attorney's Office.

There he would remain until March 2006 when he returned to Telluride to spend the next sixteen years serving as Telluride's Town Marshall before retiring in December 2019. He remains a Commander in the TMO Reserve force.

DeDee,
Once John passes on, what are the odds he will talk in more detail regarding his theory?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Have you listened to the new podcast? The DNA evidence is strong. They just never found a match. The Smit family are not doing this for money. That makes no sense. My question was, why is Boulder PD not helping them by sending the DNA to genealogy? Who in Boulder does not want this solved?

juli99,
What dna evidence? Is it any good, How do we know where it came from? You can do a genealogy check yourself, the software is out there, just sign up , enter the numbers and search away.

Who in Boulder does not want this solved?

Alex Hunter does not appear in any hurry to progress the case. Boulder just wants the case to go away, too many folks were involved with Patsy and her lifestyle, and they do not want doorstepped for interviews, just sweep it under the carpet!

Consider Susan Stine, she has vanished, and she knows a lot, possibly too much for her health.

.

 

[887sMtreme]

TV: 20/20 special The List: Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey? | Charlotte Observer

Won't be waiting with baited breath, it's from Lou Smit.

Has it really been 25 years???? It's all about the doll fibers.

~ pinker ~

Ha ha! It’s “bated” breath usually, but in this case, considering how fishy Smit was, “baited” is spot on.

 

[887sMtreme]

DeDee,
Once John passes on, what are the odds he will talk in more detail regarding his theory?

.

I wonder what the legal implications would be for anyone talking in more detail after JR’s passing? Would that come under withholding evidence?

 

[searchinGirl]

searchinGirl,
How come there are not more non-ramsey dna profiles on JonBenet's underwear, or even the rest of her body?

Have you or anyone else ever thought that the non-ramsey dna profile arrived long after JonBenet was asphyxiated.

That is, it arrived accidentally via third party transfer when either JonBenet was being wiped down, see Coroner Meyer for his opinion on the bloodstain in the size-12 underwear, or it arrived via accidental transfer during the autopsy procedure, e.g. just fell off someone's hand or an autopsy instrument, many of the forensic procedures undertaken in the JonBenet case did not follow standard procedure.

For consistency you need a dna sample from her underwear, clothing etc, along with another sample from say the ligature/paintbrush this then demonstrates they are linked to the crime-scene, as the ligature/paintbrush was in a separate location from the wine-cellar.

Find this and you can then claim you have potential evidence of an intruder.

.

The fact that the DNA was found co-mingled with JonBenet’s blood, and nowhere else on the panties indicates it got there from the wound inside of her, made by the end of the paintbrush that is missing. Years later they found the same profile on her longJohns. This second find eliminates contamination of the first because they were tested in two different labs on two separate items of clothing years apart.

Would it be so bad if BPD were to green light analysts in pursuing a genetic search of the DNA evidence? Is there some compelling reason the Ramseys should not be allowed to clear their name once and for all?

 

[fr brown]

I kept shouting at the TV... "genealogy" but they want to slowly go through their list.

And wouldn't you need a full profile to submit? If memory serves, they don't have one in this case.

The number of partial matches might be astronomical....

 

[fr brown]

The fact that the DNA was found co-mingled with JonBenet’s blood, and nowhere else on the panties indicates it got there from the wound inside of her, made by the end of the paintbrush that is missing. Years later they found the same profile on her longJohns. This second find eliminates contamination of the first because they were tested in two different labs on two separate items of clothing years apart.

Would it be so bad if BPD were to green light analysts in pursuing a genetic search of the DNA evidence? Is there some compelling reason the Ramseys should not be allowed to clear their name once and for all?

I don't think there's any way to determine such co-mingling. It's different from a fingerprint left in blood.

The partial profile is public so have at it. Didn't jameson just clear via DNA the suspect she was sure did it?

 

[searchinGirl]

I don't think there's any way to determine such co-mingling. It's different from a fingerprint left in blood.

The partial profile is public so have at it. Didn't jameson just clear via DNA the suspect she was sure did it?

They need the actual DNA to do a genealogy search. A SNP profile, or a full profile. They could however do a Familial DNA Search by reclassifying the case to “cold”. That would allow partial matching within the CODIS system and might lead them to a potential match of a criminal offender.

 

[saradotcom]

Just to clarify, as I recall there was nothing elaborate or complicated about the knots.
They were typical macramé knots. The rope, the paintbrush stick, all from Mrs. Ramsey's painting supplies. How lucky of the intruder to happen on such a stash, not.

Lou Smit was so in with the Ramseys, befriending them, borrowing cash from them, and he failed to recuse himself accordingly. It's doubtful Smit had access to evidence he'd need to draw such definite conclusions. A little bit of this, a little bit of that and they're innocent. Rubbish.

 

[searchinGirl]

Just to clarify, as I recall there was nothing elaborate or complicated about the knots.
They were typical macramé knots. The rope, the paintbrush stick, all from Mrs. Ramsey's painting supplies. How lucky of the intruder to happen on such a stash, not.

Lou Smit was so in with the Ramseys, befriending them, borrowing cash from them, and he failed to recuse himself accordingly. It's doubtful Smit had access to evidence he'd need to draw such definite conclusions. A little bit of this, a little bit of that and they're innocent. Rubbish.

When did Lou Smit borrow cash from the Ramseys?

 

[icedtea4me]

If you believe the DNA in Doubt story in its entirety, http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/130881084/DNA in doubt .pdf then why did it fail to mention the likelihood ratio that quantifies the match between the longJohns and the panties? Found here at the bottom of page 1 Bode Lab report date 6/20/08 http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/130877817/20080620-BodeReport.pdf

A recreation of the analysis can be seen in tabular format here... www.searchinGirl.com

There is evidence of an intruder, like it or not.

There were two men who were guests (connected to the Whites) at the Ramseys' Christmas party on 23 Dec 96. Their dna from saliva, which contains skin cells, could have been left on a cloth napkin when they were there that evening. There has been no word as to whether or not they have submitted their dna for testing.

 

[searchinGirl]

There were two men who were guests (connected to the Whites) at the Ramseys' Christmas party on 23 Dec 96. Their dna from saliva, which contains skin cells, could have been left on a cloth napkin when they were there that evening. There has been no word as to whether or not they have submitted their dna for testing.

I don’t know if they have submitted their DNA for testing or not. Certainly, they should have been asked since They saw JonBenet that night and were some of the last people to see her on the 25th. What offends me a little bit about events of that day at the White’s house is that Priscilla White’s sister, Alison Schoney, granted permission for Burke to be interviewed by Det Patterson posing as his grandmother. For whatever reason that just doesn’t sit right with me.