2009.04.13 State To Seek Death Penalty For Casey Anthony #3 POLL ADDED

[Searchfortruth]

I guess I don't understand, since Casey chose not to have a public defense lawyer, why would the state have to pay for her defense ?

 

[wandering]

I agree it was jose's idea to throw that out there
So what,,,, they do it all the time kc isn't the first maybe first for him though. Changes his status regardless of what he says.

What is he saying? Money is more important than justice? ! That statement is actually saying that Caylee is not worth it. Grrr...:banghead:

 

[Themis]

I think if deemed she's indigent and the state has to pay for her defense, she can continue with Jose and whoever she has already chose to defend her, they just have to agree to work for whatever the state based "defense fee" is.

Whatever the public defenders office would pay a public defender to do the same job.

That might seem logical but it isn't the way it works. If she is found to be indigent and cannot pay an attorney and JB is not willing to work the case pro bono, and if she still wants an attorney he may be allowed to withdraw and the court will order the appointment of the public defender. She doesn't get to have a private attorney paid at public defender salary level paid for by the government. Not done. The Judiciary has some budget to pay for experts for an indigent defendant but their set rates are very low. It is like trying to find a doctor who will agree to provide services for medicare rates alone without supplemental billing.

 

[Themis]

I guess I don't understand, since Casey chose not to have a public defense lawyer, why would the state have to pay for her defense ?

Only for some of the experts. She needs money to pay experts as well as her lawyers. The rates are very low. She also doesn't get every expert she wants but would have to make an application and justify each and every one as necessary to her defense.

 

[darlin gal]

I guess I don't understand, since Casey chose not to have a public defense lawyer, why would the state have to pay for her defense ?

If she can show the state that she is now "indigent", the state has to legally pay for a defense for her.

That public-paid defense is paid very little compared to what a private paid defense is.


I think this is why Baez is whining! It makes perfect sense. A death penalty case is going to cost a TON more money to defend. The funds coming in for her defense must NOT be unlimited. He is afraid they are going to run out of money or that he is going to have to PAY for her defense from HIS cut of the money.

 

[darlin gal]

That might seem logical but it isn't the way it works. If she is found to be indigent and cannot pay an attorney and JB is not willing to work the case pro bono, and if she still wants an attorney he may be allowed to withdraw and the court will order the appointment of the public defender. She doesn't get to have a private attorney paid at public defender salary level paid for by the government. Not done. The Judiciary has some budget to pay for experts for an indigent defendant but their set rates are very low. It is like trying to find a doctor who will agree to provide services for medicare rates alone without supplemental billing.

Okay, so Jose would have to work pro bono. (I knew about the state paid experts having to be pre-approved and working for a small set rate.)


I think this is exactly why he is whining.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

As we all are. Some experts have claimed "pro-bono" others have said it's nobody's business or "no comment".

With the state paying for her defense, experts must agree to work for a "set price". Which is not much in compared to what they normally get paid.

So my question would be this. The one's that claimed were working pro-bono which are all except Baez would have to continue to work pro-bono? They can't just say they want to get paid now can they? :waitasec:

 

[Themis]

If she can show the state that she is now "indigent", the state has to legally pay for a defense for her.

That public-paid defense is paid very little compared to what a private paid defense is.


I think this is why Baez is whining! It makes perfect sense. A death penalty case is going to cost a TON more money to defend. The funds coming in for her defense must NOT be unlimited. He is afraid they are going to run out of money or that he is going to have to PAY for her defense from HIS cut of the money.

Interesting you feel that way. Public Prosecutors and Public Defenders are usually paid about the same. Public Prosecutors are usually paid prevailing wage which is a comparable wage for like work in other communities, including the federal government attorneys, state attorneys, county attorneys, city attorneys, public defenders and like work for private firms in the local area. That's a common definition of prevailing wage. It used to be that PDs were paid a lot less and almost starvation wages. Systems change and evolve. Perhaps our thinking of the quality of the public defender systems should be updated?

ETA: A topped out prosecutor non-management gets about $150K a year plus benefits. There are no overhead or staff costs. A rule of thumb is 1/3 staff, 1/3 overhead and 1/3 attorney costs. So, that $150K plus another $50K in benefits is worth $600K to a private law firm or about $300 per billable hour for 2000 billable hours a year. The SA or PD gets about $72.12 an hour. So, it looks like comparing $72.12 an hour to $300 an hour means the public lawyer gets a lot less, but the actual amounts are closer to the same.

 

[Themis]

So my question would be this. The one's that claimed were working pro-bono which are all except Baez would have to continue to work pro-bono? They can't just say they want to get paid now can they? :waitasec:

Depends on whether or not there is a contract or whether it is an "as you go" situation. There may be some professional ethics rules that govern withdrawal if there has been an appearance on the record.

 

[watcher9]

With all the lies, how do we even know what is the truth? Since all of the Anthonys seem to be able to spin tales, how can we make assumptions on anything they say? Do we know for sure there was a car chase, a last sighting, a "Nanny's" dog when Caylee didn't even recognize the word "Nanny", no smell in the trunk with the gas cans, etc.?

Maybe this case would have been an open and shut case if the body had been found a lot sooner with a little help from KC. Supposively, KC is the one who texted that she got rid of the smell....so she should have volunteered to show the LE where she discarded the "squirrels."

But with a hurricane, the Anthonys, JB, lies, six months, etc. thwarting every step they took, the LE (bless them) have still been able to build a solid case against KC with all of the evidence they now have.

The defense can spin all they want, but it won't change the facts. There is no true story that they can come up with that would free KC that couldn't have been told long before the trial.

I trust the SA completely in that they believe the death penalty is appropriate and I await with giggling excitement to see which nail (for the coffin) gets released next.

 

[Themis]

Okay, so Jose would have to work pro bono. (I knew about the state paid experts having to be pre-approved and working for a small set rate.)


I think this is exactly why he is whining.

JB is working for compensation. I didn't have the impression he was working pro bono. JB has a family to support, children, a mortgage etc. It is not likely he can afford to work a whole case like this pro bono. Extremely few lawyers could work a case like this pro bono. That is why we have a public defender system. He won't be forced to work pro bono. He can withdraw. Remember too he isn't even qualified to represent her because of the DP and Florida's minimum requirements for representation on a DP case.

 

[watcher9]

If they declare KC "indigent", the way I understand it is the State would have to foot her defense, but that does not mean with the "dream team" she has now. Doesn't it mean that they would discharge JB and his team and appoint a qualified attorney to take over?

 

[Themis]

I guess I don't understand, since Casey chose not to have a public defense lawyer, why would the state have to pay for her defense ?

She can claim indigency and ask for a public defender at almost any time.

 

[Themis]

If they declare KC "indigent", the way I understand it is the State would have to foot her defense, but that does not mean with the "dream team" she has now. Doesn't it mean that they would discharge JB and his team and appoint a qualified attorney to take over?

They would appoint the Public Defender's Office in Orange County, Florida. See his qualifications I posted above. The Public Defender is death penalty qualified.

 

[songline]

That might seem logical but it isn't the way it works. If she is found to be indigent and cannot pay an attorney and JB is not willing to work the case pro bono, and if she still wants an attorney he may be allowed to withdraw and the court will order the appointment of the public defender. She doesn't get to have a private attorney paid at public defender salary level paid for by the government. Not done. The Judiciary has some budget to pay for experts for an indigent defendant but their set rates are very low. It is like trying to find a doctor who will agree to provide services for medicare rates alone without supplemental billing.

I am not an attorney and somehow it does not sound Wise nor professionally in the interest of the best out come for a legal matter to have FLOATING LAWYERS ? a case like this one? I do not think that is in the best interest of any case.
So I think it is safe to assum a lawyer or several are assigned to a case and for best results they would see it through to the end.
JUST what would make sense to me...

 

[LorinMarie]

I have not read the entire thread and I admit I did a whoop of joy at first death penalty on the table BUT thinking about it I think it would be worse punishment spending each and every day the rest of your life in jail. Knowing that everyone's lives were moving on and you were never getting out. Being put to sleep never to wake up vs spending life behind bars I think jail is worse

 

[trixi491]

I have not read the entire thread and I admit I did a whoop of joy at first death penalty on the table BUT thinking about it I think it would be worse punishment spending each and every day the rest of your life in jail. Knowing that everyone's lives were moving on and you were never getting out. Being put to sleep never to wake up vs spending life behind bars I think jail is worse

That's what I usually think but KC is different than most people. She seems to be getting accustumed to her life in jail right now, enjoying the fan letters, ordering snacks, listening to her radio, napping, etc. She would be the kind of person that would make the best out of the situation, find some naive women to be friends with, and since she is such a nympho, would be enjoying those conjugal visits like no other. She'll probably find some guy to marry while behind bars. She is also a complete narcissist and I think if she was sentenced to death her days in jail would be a LOT worse..having the fact that she will be killed looming over her. If she is as religious as she claims she is, she will have to fear that final judgement and believe that she is nothing just never waking up, but going right to he11. Inmates on death row are allowed no personal contact with any visitors so little quicky rodezvous with her admirers or hugs and kisses from her brainwashed family members will be out of the question. Plus it's likely that she'll spend a long time in jail, in solitary, before her execution date (if it even happens). Plus I don't think she's worth the money to be fed, sheltered, and covered by medical benefits for the rest of her life.

 

[impatientredhead]

That might seem logical but it isn't the way it works. If she is found to be indigent and cannot pay an attorney and JB is not willing to work the case pro bono, and if she still wants an attorney he may be allowed to withdraw and the court will order the appointment of the public defender. She doesn't get to have a private attorney paid at public defender salary level paid for by the government. Not done. The Judiciary has some budget to pay for experts for an indigent defendant but their set rates are very low. It is like trying to find a doctor who will agree to provide services for medicare rates alone without supplemental billing.

Most states including Florida do indeed appoint private attorneys who accept said appointment at the rates outlined in the state statutes. Those rates are much lower than going rates for private attorney's, but it is common practice. Especially in death penalty cases. The state cannot seek to execute you and then not provide adequate death penalty qualified defense attorney's and experts. Needless to say attorneys with the experience and qualifications required to defend a capital case, well the vast majority of them won't be found working full time in the public defenders office. Florida requires that indigent cases facing the death penalty have two qualified attorney's assigned. Many of the larger firms commit a certain amount of their hours/resources to the states indigent defenses each year.

Title XLVII
Criminal Procedure And Corrections Chapter 925
Miscellaneous Provisions Of Criminal Procedure View Entire Chapter [SIZE=-1]925.036 Appointed counsel; compensation; reassignment of case prohibited.-- [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) An attorney appointed pursuant to s. 925.035 or s. 27.53 shall, at the conclusion of the representation, be compensated at an hourly rate fixed by the chief judge or senior judge of the circuit in an amount not to exceed the prevailing hourly rate for similar representation rendered in the circuit; however, such compensation shall not exceed the maximum fee limits established by this section. In addition, such attorney shall be reimbursed for expenses reasonably incurred, including the costs of transcripts authorized by the court. If the attorney is representing a defendant charged with more than one offense in the same case, the attorney shall be compensated at the rate provided for the most serious offense for which she or he represented the defendant. This section does not allow stacking of the fee limits established by this section. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) The compensation for representation shall not exceed the following: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](a) For misdemeanors and juveniles represented at the trial level: $1,000. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) For noncapital, nonlife felonies represented at the trial level: $2,500. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](c) For life felonies represented at the trial level: $3,000. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](d) For capital cases represented at the trial level: $3,500. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](e) For representation on appeal: $2,000. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) An attorney appointed in lieu of the public defender to represent[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] an indigent defendant may not reassign or subcontract the case to another attorney.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]and from section 27.53

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](2) Any member of The Florida Bar, in good standing, may register his or her availability to the public defender of any judicial circuit for acceptance of special assignments without salary to represent indigent defendants. Such persons shall be listed and referred to as special assistant public defenders and be paid a fee and costs and expenses as provided in s. 925.036. A special assistant public defender may not reassign or subcontract a case to another attorney. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

 

[jon_burrows]

I have not read the entire thread and I admit I did a whoop of joy at first death penalty on the table BUT thinking about it I think it would be worse punishment spending each and every day the rest of your life in jail. Knowing that everyone's lives were moving on and you were never getting out. Being put to sleep never to wake up vs spending life behind bars I think jail is worse

Momtective (scroll up to post 81) wrote an excellent post on what Death Row is like. IMO, it is far worse than LWOP. She included a link to a video of an actual DR cell. If Casey gets the DP she will be miserable beyond belief...more much than LWOP where she will make friends, socialize, get a girlfriend or fool around with the guards. Contrast that to DR where she will basically live a life in solitary confinement. Imagine your days staring at the walls all day, every day. Eating all your meals in your cell next to your toilet (gross). At least the people with LWOP get to enjoy recreational activities, make friends, go outside, get college degrees, etc.

 

[songline]

So my question would be this. The one's that claimed were working pro-bono which are all except Baez would have to continue to work pro-bono? They can't just say they want to get paid now can they? :waitasec:

I am sure they can chose to step out as long as they are replaced by the state.
The state wants Justice and will offer her legal aid.She has no money, her parents are not wealthy.
the Citizens pay. But the paparazzi/Tabloids are making a bundle.