2015.06.29 Sequence of Details learned from the discovery documents

Can't follow your logic. I wouldn't make that assumption about someone I know, let alone a complete stranger.

Well I guess my logic comes from being a mother of sons.
and a lot of assumptions have been tossed around here by ppl that don't know him either.

Obviously she was close to him and the family.
I'm just not understanding it.

And Its just my opinion nothing more.
 
My poor memory recalls reading some wonderful reference material in the previous 24/48 hrs that someone on this site spent a lot of time breaking down info and creating a summary of how to quickly find info on Bates pages. My scrambled mind can't seem to locate this reference today. I am hoping a moderator will file on a read only file for future reference as this will be used for many months probably :(
 
Well I guess my logic comes from being a mother of sons.
and a lot of assumptions have been tossed around here by ppl that don't know him either.

Obviously she was close to him and the family.
I'm just not understanding it.

And Its just my opinion nothing more.

Every man/boy who has ever committed murder is some mother's son. There are evil things being done to people by someone they love every day.
 
In the preliminary report -Bates # 4 and 5- MS states he learned of his wife not showing up at the office. Did he call the office, after he could not reach his wife? Or did the office call him, since Dr S did not show?

There is a possible problem with either scenario. We know according to MSM, that at this morning (around the time TS was found) there were at least 2 employees at TS's office, SH and the girl at the desk:

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29475659...bonita-springs-doctor-speaks-out#.Vo08LZVIizk

However, if TS was a no show, who would call MS- if that's what happened- , SH or the girl at the desk? I would say it had to be SH. She would be the responsible party after TS.

But..[quoting from above article]

'On Monday, the doctor failed to show. Hoskins knew something was wrong. "The phone rang. The girl in the front office picked it up and said there's crime tape. Her block is taped off, and there's police everywhere," said Hoskins. Hoskins immediately drove to the doctor's home and spoke with a deputy. "He said she's passed," said Hoskins. "I called Mark, and I said I know what's going, but I don't know what's going on. He was hysterical."

"I said where are you. He said I'm on my way home. I said Mark I'm headed back to the office to take care of things." '

SH asks MS "Where are you?", so she did not talk to him previously. She did not call MS, MS did not call her. Also, who placed that call to the office that morning informing them of the yellow tape?

How did MS learn of his wife not showing up for work..?

-Nin

I can see either SH or the girl at the front desk calling MS. If the receptionist was busy checking in a patient it was probably SH. If SH was busy working up a patient it was probably the receptionist. Could go either way. IMO, the norm would be SH texting/calling her doctor, TS. After that, it's hard to say. It's a small office so they likely didn't follow a formal protocol.

I suspect MP contacted his nurse/office manager to let her know that he would be held up. Idk, maybe he contacted his wife too. That could have triggered a chain of events leading to TS's office getting a call.
 
T/Y Scout and thank you atthelake for all your effort and time to help keep my life simple as possible :dance:
 
Every man/boy who has ever committed murder is some mother's son. There are evil things being done to people by someone they love every day.

We are talking about sending his mom to find his brutally murdered wife.
 
1.) My guess is that they were very relaxed, laughing & bragging & a time or two complimenting the other on how brilliant each was, so happy, giddy, JR telling bridegroom CWW to 'go ahead, supersize those fries!' I would guess, too, that they'd had so very many hours of practice driving everywhere deliberately obeying all traffic laws & acting seemingly non-suspicious (remember a lot of police are out there in unmarked cars...) that had a special way about them so that in their minds they seemed so innocent, like 2 'regular men in a car' just out for a quick errand. I bet they were so relaxed they LOVED having all those murder trophies with them in the car - they weren't in fear of a police stop & search, but delighted to have their trophies so close, available for later viewing by each of them (for the rest of their lives!!). I bet they were really bragging & back-slapping eachother over what off-the-graph SmartestMenInTheWholeWideWorld they were to have that brilliant idea to leave that brand spanking new hammer from Walmart next to TS' body !! (Yeah, that hammer would really throw the police off their trail:great:......!

2.) WHAT I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT FIGURE OUT, & CAN MAKE SENSE IS THIS: Why in the world would those 2 stay in the home so long & WHY WOULD THEY NOT LEAVE WELL BEFORE DAWN ??? I cannot understand why in the world that would happen. People in that area have dogs, would be out at crack of dawn walking their dogs on leashes. It even has me wonder is BS had her times muddled & it was her who fiddled with the alarm early --- no way would the 2 (of the 3 IMO) murderers deliberately stay in the home so close in time to BS' arrival & no way would they want to be leaving the home under light of day - bright Fla. sunrise, remember. Can anyone here make a bit of sense out of that mystery?

3.) I can't 'put myself in his mind' to really understand this, but CWW & MS were so incredibly tied to the hip of one another that 'out of honor' (ick - gets me ill, the thought......) CWW will never tattle tale on buddy/BFF MS. I bet CWW 'luvs' MS so much that CWW doesn't feel any hostility to MS whatsoever (anger/rage that MS is roaming free & CWW will always be locked up). For sure CWW went through 'MS withdrawal!!' when he first got locked up & entirely cut off from MS for good!

I GUESS that JR will never be a blabber mouth either, probably because he 'hates all law enforcement' so wouldn't 'give them the satisfaction'/'wouldn't do them any favors', & also, especially early on, JR would be so, so, so mad at his GF for ratting him out (even tho', IMO, she sure hedged, w/held info', & only felt pressured into tattling on Her Man by her fam') - remember JR's GF did not learn any of that by accident but because JR was so very proud he bragged to her about it!!

I SUPPOSE hypothetically it is good to hear that 'all (the unarrested MO' ladies) are in therapy' now, but gheesh IMO all that is nothin' but further complete & utter waste of taxpayer dollars. THIS IS IMO ONLY !

4.) Just after the murder, because word of 'a hammer' was leaked right away, my impression is that MS was furious at CWW but also scared all was going to unravel & scared 'wild cannon' JR would be the one to bring MS down. I guess all I can imagine is that CWW 'hates' all law enforcement & county child social services. This has all gone on so very long now my mouth will drop if I ever wake one day & read here that MS was arrested --- I can't figure what possibly could become known now that took so very much time to be learned by police. This crime strikes me as super bizarre how MS has been out walking free nonstop - so many months have gone by (in the Fred Neulander case, approx. six years post-conviction, 1 of the 2 ****s he hired to commit the 'blood & guts' of a murder tattled on Fred N.; both ****s ultimately did a little more time & were released, 'on probation').
Sick thought, but these are two sick individuals. What if they took a nap and ate food at TS' house, after they did the deed? It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
Sick thought, but these are two sick individuals. What if they took a nap and ate food at TS' house, after they did the deed? It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Teresa arrived home at 11:19 pm and was murdered as soon as she entered the house. By 12:44 am (1 hr, 25 min later) the killers were in Port Charlotte, about an hour north of the Sievers house.
 
Or the cheapest?

Maybe one of the reasons MS was in a hurry to have TS's body discovered was so he could dismiss the employees for the day. We know finances were an issue. I wonder if MS was able to meet the final payroll obligations?

Which begs another question. Would TS's small business life insurance still have paid out to anyone other than MS?
 
Yes, and that would be an evil thing that he did to his mother who loved him, in addition to the evil he did to Teresa and their daughters.

If he did that I agree it would be a very evil thing.
I'm just not so sure he did.
 
Teresa arrived home at 11:19 pm and was murdered as soon as she entered the house. By 12:44 am (1 hr, 25 min later) the killers were in Port Charlotte, about an hour north of the Sievers house.
Thanks for clarifying!

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Teresa arrived home at 11:19 pm and was murdered as soon as she entered the house. By 12:44 am (1 hr, 25 min later) the killers were in Port Charlotte, about an hour north of the Sievers house.

After reading JRR Facebook page (docs) this actually gives me comfort that hopefully TS didn't experience any of JRR's rough sex antics on top of being brutally murdered. I try to be grateful for any mercies...and this may be one of them.
 
After reading JRR Facebook page (docs) this actually gives me comfort that hopefully TS didn't experience any of JRR's rough sex antics on top of being brutally murdered. I try to be grateful for any mercies...and this may be one of them.


IIRC, we were told fairly soon after the murder that it wasn't a sex crime and that nothing was stolen from the house. Right away that would tend to indicate a hit. Indeed, one of my guesses early on was that it was a hit by human traffickers for some interference by TS with one or more of their victims. Given that our geniuses are said to have put considerable effort into staging, isn't it amazing they left their motive so undisguised.
 
I think ms just wanted to appear to be worried and concerned. He just doesn't know how to act normal because he isn't.

Also he may have wanted to get back to florida asap in order to feel in control. He seems to be a control freak.
 
1.) My guess is that they were very relaxed, laughing & bragging & a time or two complimenting the other on how brilliant each was, so happy, giddy, JR telling bridegroom CWW to 'go ahead, supersize those fries!' I would guess, too, that they'd had so very many hours of practice driving everywhere deliberately obeying all traffic laws & acting seemingly non-suspicious (remember a lot of police are out there in unmarked cars...) that had a special way about them so that in their minds they seemed so innocent, like 2 'regular men in a car' just out for a quick errand. I bet they were so relaxed they LOVED having all those murder trophies with them in the car - they weren't in fear of a police stop & search, but delighted to have their trophies so close, available for later viewing by each of them (for the rest of their lives!!). I bet they were really bragging & back-slapping eachother over what off-the-graph SmartestMenInTheWholeWideWorld they were to have that brilliant idea to leave that brand spanking new hammer from Walmart next to TS' body !! (Yeah, that hammer would really throw the police off their trail:great:......!

2.) WHAT I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT FIGURE OUT, & CAN MAKE SENSE IS THIS: Why in the world would those 2 stay in the home so long & WHY WOULD THEY NOT LEAVE WELL BEFORE DAWN ??? I cannot understand why in the world that would happen. People in that area have dogs, would be out at crack of dawn walking their dogs on leashes. It even has me wonder is BS had her times muddled & it was her who fiddled with the alarm early --- no way would the 2 (of the 3 IMO) murderers deliberately stay in the home so close in time to BS' arrival & no way would they want to be leaving the home under light of day - bright Fla. sunrise, remember. Can anyone here make a bit of sense out of that mystery?

3.) I can't 'put myself in his mind' to really understand this, but CWW & MS were so incredibly tied to the hip of one another that 'out of honor' (ick - gets me ill, the thought......) CWW will never tattle tale on buddy/BFF MS. I bet CWW 'luvs' MS so much that CWW doesn't feel any hostility to MS whatsoever (anger/rage that MS is roaming free & CWW will always be locked up). For sure CWW went through 'MS withdrawal!!' when he first got locked up & entirely cut off from MS for good!

I GUESS that JR will never be a blabber mouth either, probably because he 'hates all law enforcement' so wouldn't 'give them the satisfaction'/'wouldn't do them any favors', & also, especially early on, JR would be so, so, so mad at his GF for ratting him out (even tho', IMO, she sure hedged, w/held info', & only felt pressured into tattling on Her Man by her fam') - remember JR's GF did not learn any of that by accident but because JR was so very proud he bragged to her about it!!

I SUPPOSE hypothetically it is good to hear that 'all (the unarrested MO' ladies) are in therapy' now, but gheesh IMO all that is nothin' but further complete & utter waste of taxpayer dollars. THIS IS IMO ONLY !

4.) Just after the murder, because word of 'a hammer' was leaked right away, my impression is that MS was furious at CWW but also scared all was going to unravel & scared 'wild cannon' JR would be the one to bring MS down. I guess all I can imagine is that CWW 'hates' all law enforcement & county child social services. This has all gone on so very long now my mouth will drop if I ever wake one day & read here that MS was arrested --- I can't figure what possibly could become known now that took so very much time to be learned by police. This crime strikes me as super bizarre how MS has been out walking free nonstop - so many months have gone by (in the Fred Neulander case, approx. six years post-conviction, 1 of the 2 ****s he hired to commit the 'blood & guts' of a murder tattled on Fred N.; both ****s ultimately did a little more time & were released, 'on probation').

BBM for reply sakes


Lol MM. I had to chuckle when you mentioned that Jr probably told them to go ahead and Super Size those fries. Lol.
 
Only reason I can think of he is still free is they will arrest in pairs again. Perhaps someone jealous of TS success that MS may have been plotting with. jmo.
 
1.) My guess is that they were very relaxed, laughing & bragging & a time or two complimenting the other on how brilliant each was, so happy, giddy, JR telling bridegroom CWW to 'go ahead, supersize those fries!' I would guess, too, that they'd had so very many hours of practice driving everywhere deliberately obeying all traffic laws & acting seemingly non-suspicious (remember a lot of police are out there in unmarked cars...) that had a special way about them so that in their minds they seemed so innocent, like 2 'regular men in a car' just out for a quick errand. I bet they were so relaxed they LOVED having all those murder trophies with them in the car - they weren't in fear of a police stop & search, but delighted to have their trophies so close, available for later viewing by each of them (for the rest of their lives!!). I bet they were really bragging & back-slapping eachother over what off-the-graph SmartestMenInTheWholeWideWorld they were to have that brilliant idea to leave that brand spanking new hammer from Walmart next to TS' body !! (Yeah, that hammer would really throw the police off their trail:great:......!

2.) WHAT I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT FIGURE OUT, & CAN MAKE SENSE IS THIS: Why in the world would those 2 stay in the home so long & WHY WOULD THEY NOT LEAVE WELL BEFORE DAWN ??? I cannot understand why in the world that would happen. People in that area have dogs, would be out at crack of dawn walking their dogs on leashes. It even has me wonder is BS had her times muddled & it was her who fiddled with the alarm early --- no way would the 2 (of the 3 IMO) murderers deliberately stay in the home so close in time to BS' arrival & no way would they want to be leaving the home under light of day - bright Fla. sunrise, remember. Can anyone here make a bit of sense out of that mystery?

3.) I can't 'put myself in his mind' to really understand this, but CWW & MS were so incredibly tied to the hip of one another that 'out of honor' (ick - gets me ill, the thought......) CWW will never tattle tale on buddy/BFF MS. I bet CWW 'luvs' MS so much that CWW doesn't feel any hostility to MS whatsoever (anger/rage that MS is roaming free & CWW will always be locked up). For sure CWW went through 'MS withdrawal!!' when he first got locked up & entirely cut off from MS for good!

I GUESS that JR will never be a blabber mouth either, probably because he 'hates all law enforcement' so wouldn't 'give them the satisfaction'/'wouldn't do them any favors', & also, especially early on, JR would be so, so, so mad at his GF for ratting him out (even tho', IMO, she sure hedged, w/held info', & only felt pressured into tattling on Her Man by her fam') - remember JR's GF did not learn any of that by accident but because JR was so very proud he bragged to her about it!!

I SUPPOSE hypothetically it is good to hear that 'all (the unarrested MO' ladies) are in therapy' now, but gheesh IMO all that is nothin' but further complete & utter waste of taxpayer dollars. THIS IS IMO ONLY !

4.) Just after the murder, because word of 'a hammer' was leaked right away, my impression is that MS was furious at CWW but also scared all was going to unravel & scared 'wild cannon' JR would be the one to bring MS down. I guess all I can imagine is that CWW 'hates' all law enforcement & county child social services. This has all gone on so very long now my mouth will drop if I ever wake one day & read here that MS was arrested --- I can't figure what possibly could become known now that took so very much time to be learned by police. This crime strikes me as super bizarre how MS has been out walking free nonstop - so many months have gone by (in the Fred Neulander case, approx. six years post-conviction, 1 of the 2 ****s he hired to commit the 'blood & guts' of a murder tattled on Fred N.; both ****s ultimately did a little more time & were released, 'on probation').
Your post is amazing and I appreciate your unaltered view of what may have went down after they cleaned up and went home. You almost recreated their 'unassumed' dialog.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
1.) My guess is that they were very relaxed, laughing & bragging & a time or two complimenting the other on how brilliant each was, so happy, giddy, JR telling bridegroom CWW to 'go ahead, supersize those fries!' I would guess, too, that they'd had so very many hours of practice driving everywhere deliberately obeying all traffic laws & acting seemingly non-suspicious (remember a lot of police are out there in unmarked cars...) that had a special way about them so that in their minds they seemed so innocent, like 2 'regular men in a car' just out for a quick errand. I bet they were so relaxed they LOVED having all those murder trophies with them in the car - they weren't in fear of a police stop & search, but delighted to have their trophies so close, available for later viewing by each of them (for the rest of their lives!!). I bet they were really bragging & back-slapping eachother over what off-the-graph SmartestMenInTheWholeWideWorld they were to have that brilliant idea to leave that brand spanking new hammer from Walmart next to TS' body !! (Yeah, that hammer would really throw the police off their trail:great:......!

2.) WHAT I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT FIGURE OUT, & CAN MAKE SENSE IS THIS: Why in the world would those 2 stay in the home so long & WHY WOULD THEY NOT LEAVE WELL BEFORE DAWN ??? I cannot understand why in the world that would happen. People in that area have dogs, would be out at crack of dawn walking their dogs on leashes. It even has me wonder is BS had her times muddled & it was her who fiddled with the alarm early --- no way would the 2 (of the 3 IMO) murderers deliberately stay in the home so close in time to BS' arrival & no way would they want to be leaving the home under light of day - bright Fla. sunrise, remember. Can anyone here make a bit of sense out of that mystery?

3.) I can't 'put myself in his mind' to really understand this, but CWW & MS were so incredibly tied to the hip of one another that 'out of honor' (ick - gets me ill, the thought......) CWW will never tattle tale on buddy/BFF MS. I bet CWW 'luvs' MS so much that CWW doesn't feel any hostility to MS whatsoever (anger/rage that MS is roaming free & CWW will always be locked up). For sure CWW went through 'MS withdrawal!!' when he first got locked up & entirely cut off from MS for good!

I GUESS that JR will never be a blabber mouth either, probably because he 'hates all law enforcement' so wouldn't 'give them the satisfaction'/'wouldn't do them any favors', & also, especially early on, JR would be so, so, so mad at his GF for ratting him out (even tho', IMO, she sure hedged, w/held info', & only felt pressured into tattling on Her Man by her fam') - remember JR's GF did not learn any of that by accident but because JR was so very proud he bragged to her about it!!

I SUPPOSE hypothetically it is good to hear that 'all (the unarrested MO' ladies) are in therapy' now, but gheesh IMO all that is nothin' but further complete & utter waste of taxpayer dollars. THIS IS IMO ONLY !

4.) Just after the murder, because word of 'a hammer' was leaked right away, my impression is that MS was furious at CWW but also scared all was going to unravel & scared 'wild cannon' JR would be the one to bring MS down. I guess all I can imagine is that CWW 'hates' all law enforcement & county child social services. This has all gone on so very long now my mouth will drop if I ever wake one day & read here that MS was arrested --- I can't figure what possibly could become known now that took so very much time to be learned by police. This crime strikes me as super bizarre how MS has been out walking free nonstop - so many months have gone by (in the Fred Neulander case, approx. six years post-conviction, 1 of the 2 ****s he hired to commit the 'blood & guts' of a murder tattled on Fred N.; both ****s ultimately did a little more time & were released, 'on probation').

We do know from discovery that they stopped at a McD's.
 

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