25 March 2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection?

[laytonian]

Has anyone else noticed how similar Steve and Susan's noses are. Now look at Josh's nose! Lol! Do you see what I see?

Steven's nose is a bit "beakish" in profile - is Susan's?

 

[PickieChickie]

Steven's nose is a bit "beakish" in profile - is Susan's?

Steven and Susan both have beautiful noses. Now look at Josh's nose!

No! He has a butt ugly nose. It looks like it got squeezed then pulled and stayed that way! Lol! Look at Susan's and Steve's noses! They are full and beautiful. They make his nose look like an elf nose! Lol!

 

[Fairy1]

I have been trying to get anyone who thinks there is a connection to give their theory, but unfortunately haven't received a response that gives a reasoned theory, or a link to any theory previously proposed which I have overlooked.

I'm not particularly interested in Steven's case, but I am following Susan's case because friends of mine are closely involved. If there were a link between Steven's and Susan's disappearance, it would certainly help in clearing both cases up, but trying to establish a link based on an encounter between Josh and Steven in the desert is just too random for me.

I searched on this site for a while in the Steven Koechner threads to see if I couild find any of these theories, and came upon this link:

http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Sud...nsidered-by-Utah-missing-person-investigators

In short, neither the WVC nor the St George Police departments think there is any link beyond a similarity in ages and living in Utah, but are happy to exchange information.

That's where I got to in my last post. There is no tenable link.

Thank you. I'd LOVE to know what theories support a connection between Susan and Steven. They're both from Utah? Big whoop! I'm going to check out how many others went missing in Utah during the same time frame. Are we to believe ALL these cases are connected?

Let's look at the different possibilties:

Susan and Steven were having an affair and ran off together
Josh and Steven were having an affair and _______???
Josh killed Susan and Steven caught him disposing of her body and then ________???
Steven killed Susan and ran off to _________???

What else?

 

[hollyblue]

Quote:
Originally Posted by laytonian
Here's the detail we need:
Larry King Transcript

"MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Jane, let`s talk about that evidence. I can confirm to you that five search warrants have been executed: three inside the Powell home, one for Josh Powell`s DNA. Also one for the family minivan.
I can also tell you that investigators at this time are working on a sixth warrant which will go towards that rental car. Police do tell me that he did drive for hundreds of miles, the Tuesday after Sunday went missing, that Sunday. That Tuesday evening Josh Powell was gone. They cannot account for his whereabouts. They have no clue where he went."

Extrapolating:
Sunday was Dec 6th, "Tuesday after Sunday" was Dec 8th, so the rental car was returned no later than sometime on the afternoon/evening of Dec 9th.

That matches the timeline in the article you posted, about JP needing Peterson to him to help pick up his minivan "two days after Susan was reporting missing" (which that article calculates as the 7th).

Thank you. Whether you calculate it as "three days" or "two days", both articles give us the same ending date for that rental car...even though it's not mentioned in the article you posted.

On the evening of Dec 9th, Steven Koecher was in St George, performing temple sealings in the LDS temple there.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is the last post re: SK I will make on this thread---everything should be moved there for other's to ponder.

Below is the link to the PC given by SK's parents. Beginning at the 8:15 mark, his mother states "He worked on Tues. Wed & Thurs. in central Nev/N. Utah. Friday in St. George". If this was bad info, don't you think LE being right there would correct her? or Mr. K? The news of the temple ward sealing had been discussed prior to this PC taking place and a close relative was aware of it...so how can this be explained? The mother had to have these facts from somewhere, no?

I do find it interesting that although they (parents) must have had SK's possessions sometime in Dec., the discovery of the passport was not made until late Feb. As was the mention of the temple ward sighting. Two months...after his disappearance. Possible...but hinky. If it were my child missing, I would have torn everything into bits ----looking with a fine tooth comb for anything and everything for a hint of the same in trying to find him.
But that's me.....JMO


http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/ca...autoStart=true
__________________

 

[hollyblue]

Sorry I don'[t know the proper way to bring the SK's posts over to this thread....

Quote:
Originally Posted by grayjay
When the cement shape was found, it was supported and debated around all sorts of possibilities on this list. I'm sure that just a single plausible fact can get people thinking and sleuthing and conjuring more relationships.

I'm hoping you'll share your work at some point and then your idea can be more fully explored by those who have missed what you have found. I can't wait to hear, in fact. In the meantime, I can't make it work even if I wish it could break both cases wide open and find both missing people.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
To share a theory that is not viewed seriously, but with ridicule is moot in my opinion. If it's proven wrong and either Susan or Steven is found....I'll share it. Until then, I will explore other "theories" and while doing so, try to find ways to disprove mine.

LE has more info than we do.
__________________

 

[laytonian]

This is the last post re: SK I will make on this thread---everything should be moved there for other's to ponder.

Below is the link to the PC given by SK's parents. Beginning at the 8:15 mark, his mother states "He worked on Tues. Wed & Thurs. in central Nev/N. Utah. Friday in St. George". If this was bad info, don't you think LE being right there would correct her? or Mr. K?

Not really. It wasn't LE's press conference.

Steven was at the St George Temple on Dec 9th, as seen by at least five other people (and documented by the Ward Clerk). I call that incontrovertible evidence.

I do find it interesting that although they (parents) must have had SK's possessions sometime in Dec., the discovery of the passport was not made until late Feb. As was the mention of the temple ward sighting. Two months...after his disappearance. Possible...but hinky. If it were my child missing, I would have torn everything into bits ----looking with a fine tooth comb for anything and everything for a hint of the same in trying to find him.
But that's me.....JMO


http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/ca...autoStart=true
__________________

I'd have done the very same. I'd also not have touched that car, until after LE had fingerprinted it and run some forensics. (After it was driven home to Bountiful, was a bit late to run drug dogs through it, IMO)

The temple ward sighting was posted on the FB page on Jan 3rd BUT since it wasn't posted in timeline, and kinda buried in the middle of a "How I Know Steven" post, no one spotted it right away.

As for your other post about "ridicule" -- that's not fair. All of us have had our theories questioned. You've questioned mine many times, including the decision to change the timeline date of the Ruby Valley trip to Dec 10th. I was the one to make the decision, but I did so with the input of many others after several days of trying to shove the "ward temple night" into the existing timeline. (You know all of that.)

 

[hollyblue]

Not really. It wasn't LE's press conference.

Steven was at the St George Temple on Dec 9th, as seen by at least five other people (and documented by the Ward Clerk). I call that incontrovertible evidence.



I'd have done the very same. I'd also not have touched that car, until after LE had fingerprinted it and run some forensics. (After it was driven home to Bountiful, was a bit late to run drug dogs through it, IMO)

The temple ward sighting was posted on the FB page on Jan 3rd BUT since it wasn't posted in timeline, and kinda buried in the middle of a "How I Know Steven" post, no one spotted it right away.

As for your other post about "ridicule" -- that's not fair. All of us have had our theories questioned. You've questioned mine many times, including the decision to change the timeline date of the Ruby Valley trip to Dec 10th. I was the one to make the decision, but I did so with the input of many others after several days of trying to shove the "ward temple night" into the existing timeline. (You know all of that.)

No it wasn't LE's press conference---but why BS in front of them and the mayor if not believing what I was saying is true? Given we have heard nothing from the family or LE regarding the ward temple night for confirmation.....beside the people there. Still, saying that, there IS a discrepancy between the two.
Yes, Lay, we have thrown up the dukes in the past--especially the timeline re: the above, but I have never ridiculed it. People are entitled to think what they like, I just won't discuss with others who think something is a distraction in what they want to focus on. Oxymora???

 

[hollyblue]

I would never disrespect you, by calling you shallow. We may tangle in other ways, but deeply and caringly.

That picture of Steven, is what hooked me into the case. He looks like a guy I met at Quickie Lube a few years ago, who asked me "Ma'am, are you HOT?"
and I started giggling

LOL.... A guy ask you that at a "Quickie Lube". Look out Lay...did he have his grease gun in hand??:woohoo:

 

[hollyblue]

(bbm)

I totally agree, Bartleby. The timelines plus distances between locations are virtually impossible.

West Valley City is a bedroom community of Salt Lake City. WVC's population is over 123,447. Salt Lake City's population is over
1,115, 692.

Because Susan, Josh and Steven at one time in their lives lived in WVC is no reason to believe they knew each other. I've seen not a speck of teeny tiny proof that they did. :snooty:

Philly proper has a larger population and way larger surrounding population than SLC and who would have believed, me included, that I could go to a house party and a very "known" person would be there. Much biggier odds, but it happened.

If you use the LDS population only, since it has been his main social circle, that would probably knock it down by half. They were the same age group, so might have other people in common, lowering the odds more...not as far fetched as you might think.

I've not seen a speck of teeny tiny proof of anything in SK's case for leads; and not much more in Susan's. Josh's a walking, talking, dazed and confused entity. Who in the H knows what or how he thinks.

 

[grayjay]

I'm probably the cause of your irritation, HollyBlue, because of suggesting that this discussion might best be moved from the thread where the topic first came up. I apologize for not taking your feelings into account on that while actually trying to help your idea stand on its own.

My intention was to move the topic from being thought of with suspicion to being one that deserves its own consideration and needs to be fully fleshed out. I hope you'll continue to comment on this when you feel comfortable doing so and overlook the damage.

 

[laytonian]

LOL.... A guy ask you that at a "Quickie Lube". Look out Lay...did he have his grease gun in hand??:woohoo:

Heh....

Here's the full story, and it happened in Bountiful Utah about four years ago. On some level, I wonder if it's what attracted me to this case.

I was at at Quickie Lube, waiting for my car to be done. Two men (one mid/late 20s and blonde, one a bit older and dark-haired, thinner) came in and sat down in the waiting room.
Next thing I know, a voice asks me "Ma'am, are you hot?"
I paused, and gave about five alternative answers (you can imagine).

For the next five minutes or so, we laughed and made silly jokes. They asked which car was mine and I said "the (SUV) with the pink fuzzy dice". I left, and as I drove out, they waved. (Mind you, I'm OLD.)

But that's not the end of the story.
Many months later, I'm driving to SLC in the fuzzy-dice SUV, and a small white car pulls beside, and the blonde driver honks and waves. I thought he was telling me I had something wrong with my car. I gave him a slight wave and thought "that was strange". Then I remembered. It was the guy from the Quickie Lube.

Yes, it's on-topic. And every picture I've seen of Steven, looks like the guy. No, I'm not looking for him to grease my joints

 

[Bartleby]

Philly proper has a larger population and way larger surrounding population than SLC and who would have believed, me included, that I could go to a house party and a very "known" person would be there. Much bigger odds, but it happened.

If you use the LDS population only, since it has been his main social circle, that would probably knock it down by half. They were the same age group, so might have other people in common, lowering the odds more...not as far fetched as you might think.

I've not seen a speck of teeny tiny proof of anything in SK's case for leads; and not much more in Susan's. Josh's a walking, talking, dazed and confused entity. Who in the H knows what or how he thinks.

Reading between the lines, we have a theory that Steven might have met either Josh or Susan at an LDS gathering, and that could form the connection between the cases.

That is certainly more likely than a chance encounter in the desert. Parties are places where people deliberately gather, and usually people with a common interest, and yes, closeness of age could also narrow the odds, so yes, we've lowered the odds considerably if we propose a meeting at an LDS party or event.

However as I understand it the LDS is broken down into churches and wards, and unless someone attends the same church or is in the same ward, they are unlikely to attend the same social events related to that church or ward.
From what I recall from Kiirsi telling me, one church will hold several services because it it not large enough for everyone to attend at once, so you could go to the same church as another LDS person and never actually be present at the same time. Confirmation of these arrangements by anyone who is LDS, and the likelihood of someone from out of town attending an LDS event, would be appreciated.

Moreover, if Steven did attend an event outside his ward, there would be witnesses who recall his presence (particularly because it was unusual) and would probably have welcomed and spoken to him, just as there are witnesses who remember his attendance at LDS events between 7th and 13th December outside his home ward in St George.

So, not pouring scorn on any theory but playing devil's advocate, do we have anyone coming forward who remembers Steven attending any event which Josh and/or Susan also attended?

 

[laytonian]

No it wasn't LE's press conference---but why BS in front of them and the mayor if not believing what I was saying is true? Given we have heard nothing from the family or LE regarding the ward temple night for confirmation.....beside the people there. Still, saying that, there IS a discrepancy between the two.

Yes, there is. There's even discrepancies in Mrs K's statement at the PC. Nervousness? More important things to think about? I doubt she knows much about what we do here...or even cares. It wasn't BS. It was a contemporaneous statement that's confusing on several levels. Worked in Northern Nevada for three days?

Yes, Lay, we have thrown up the dukes in the past--especially the timeline re: the above, but I have never ridiculed it. People are entitled to think what they like, I just won't discuss with others who think something is a distraction in what they want to focus on. Oxymora???

 

[laytonian]

However as I understand it the LDS is broken down into churches and wards, and unless someone attends the same church or is in the same ward, they are unlikely to attend the same social events related to that church or ward.

From what I recall from Kiirsi telling me, one church will hold several services because it it not large enough for everyone to attend at once, so you could go to the same church as another LDS person and never actually be present at the same time. Confirmation of these arrangements by anyone who is LDS, and the likelihood of someone from out of town attending an LDS event, would be appreciated.

What you say is basically correct; wards are areas, and several wards meet in one wardhouse (building). There's another consideration, though: several wardhouses are included in a "Stake", a larger regional area.
Steven attended the Bloomington Hills 7th Ward "singles ward" in St George. LDS members who attended other wards that meet in the same building, never knew him nor did they even know he was missing until some people got bold and hung up flyers.

Steven did live in West Valley City, for awhile, as confirmed by his cousin in our Q&A sessions documented here:
http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/home/koecher-html/qa-answered

Where Steven lived, was about 6.5 miles from where the Powells lived at 6254 Sarah Circle in WVC. That rules out them attending the same ward, or even meetings in the same wardhouse.

Does anyone know whether Steven's ward and the Powells' ward would be in the same Stake?
Depending upon what kind of events are held at a Stake level, it could be possible they ran into each other.

There's your opening, folks. Get the detail

 

[PickieChickie]

What you say is basically correct; wards are areas, and several wards meet in one wardhouse (building). There's another consideration, though: several wardhouses are included in a "Stake", a larger regional area.
Steven attended the Bloomington Hills 7th Ward "singles ward" in St George. LDS members who attended other wards that meet in the same building, never knew him nor did they even know he was missing until some people got bold and hung up flyers.

Steven did live in West Valley City, for awhile, as confirmed by his cousin in our Q&A sessions documented here:
http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/home/koecher-html/qa-answered

Where Steven lived, was about 6.5 miles from where the Powells lived at 6254 Sarah Circle in WVC. That rules out them attending the same ward, or even meetings in the same wardhouse.

Does anyone know whether Steven's ward and the Powells' ward would be in the same Stake?
Depending upon what kind of events are held at a Stake level, it could be possible they ran into each other.

There's your opening, folks. Get the detail

I appreciate your post but what are the exact dates that Steven lived in West Valley City and what was his address?

Was his home located by either Josh or Susan's places of employment?

People meet other places besides at church or church related meetings such as parks, stores, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Steve Koecher met either Josh or Susan Powell. I'm just curious.

 

[DomCasual]

What you say is basically correct; wards are areas, and several wards meet in one wardhouse (building). There's another consideration, though: several wardhouses are included in a "Stake", a larger regional area.
Steven attended the Bloomington Hills 7th Ward "singles ward" in St George. LDS members who attended other wards that meet in the same building, never knew him nor did they even know he was missing until some people got bold and hung up flyers.

Steven did live in West Valley City, for awhile, as confirmed by his cousin in our Q&A sessions documented here:
http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/home/koecher-html/qa-answered

Where Steven lived, was about 6.5 miles from where the Powells lived at 6254 Sarah Circle in WVC. That rules out them attending the same ward, or even meetings in the same wardhouse.

Does anyone know whether Steven's ward and the Powells' ward would be in the same Stake?
Depending upon what kind of events are held at a Stake level, it could be possible they ran into each other.

There's your opening, folks. Get the detail

6.5 miles is an awful lot of distance here. My guess is that there would be two or three stakes in an area that far.

 

[laytonian]

I appreciate your post but what are the exact dates that Steven lived in West Valley City and what was his address?

Was his home located by either Josh or Susan's places of employment?

People meet other places besides at church or church related meetings such as parks, stores, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Steve Koecher met either Josh or Susan Powell. I'm just curious.

I don't know those details. The Q&A link I posted, has the cross-street coordinates, as well as the approximate date of when he lived in WVC. His cousin either can't remember the exact address, or didn't want to make it public because perhaps one of his friends still lives there.

I thought Susan Powell worked at Wells Fargo Brokerage, as a broker's assistant. Isn't that downtown SLC? (I've always been curious as to whether that was the same place Lori Hacking worked. THAT would be a big "maybe clue" as to the direction of this case.)

The timeline also lists Josh's employment record, as much as we've been able to dig up. I'm just providing some resources; there's lots at those links. I'll let the S&S crowd figure out what's near what, and when it was near what, and come up with their own theory.

 

[hollyblue]

Yes, there is. There's even discrepancies in Mrs K's statement at the PC. Nervousness? More important things to think about? I doubt she knows much about what we do here...or even cares. It wasn't BS. It was a contemporaneous statement that's confusing on several levels. Worked in Northern Nevada for three days?

He worked in SG Tuesday. Was in Cen. Nev/N. Ut on Wed & Thurs. Back in SG on Fri. As discussed earlier, it is a rather long drive back to SG via the main route, and if he was to attend the TWM in SG he would have to have left the SLC area prior to 10-11 AM to get there by 6 PM. BUT, she states he was in N.Ut on the 9th. The bank records of the debit charges in that area during that time period would be proof, but we don't have them---with the actual purchase time. I imagine LE might have them; and she may be aware of the actual times-thus the statements that she made. But, there is no way to be in two places at the same time----unless he flew...(as we have discussed before)

Are you saying there are more discrepanies in her statements than the ones with the timeline issue? How?

I'm not saying she WAS BSing, just the question of why state something not truthful when LE, the mayor,the media and everyone's brother was at the PC. She did not seem nervous to me, rather Mr. K always comes off more visably upset and flustered in the interviews more so than the Mrs. Odd in opinion, but true, from my perception. She always looks like she's up to snuff and keeping an eyeball on him...when he speaks. JMO

 

[Fairy1]

[/b]


He worked in SG Tuesday. Was in Cen. Nev/N. Ut on Wed & Thurs. Back in SG on Fri. As discussed earlier, it is a rather long drive back to SG via the main route, and if he was to attend the TWM in SG he would have to have left the SLC area prior to 10-11 AM to get there by 6 PM. BUT, she states he was in N.Ut on the 9th. The bank records of the debit charges in that area during that time period would be proof, but we don't have them---with the actual purchase time. I imagine LE might have them; and she may be aware of the actual times-thus the statements that she made. But, there is no way to be in two places at the same time----unless he flew...(as we have discussed before)

Are you saying there are more discrepanies in her statements than the ones with the timeline issue? How?

I'm not saying she WAS BSing, just the question of why state something not truthful when LE, the mayor,the media and everyone's brother was at the PC. She did not seem nervous to me, rather Mr. K always comes off more visably upset and flustered in the interviews more so than the Mrs. Odd in opinion, but true, from my perception. She always looks like she's up to snuff and keeping an eyeball on him...when he speaks. JMO

I can tell you they're lovely people who are looking for answers and for their son. Doing the best they can under the circumstances. No, I don't believe they were nervous. And yes, I believe AN's parents could have been mistaken about the actual date he visited. It's not a cover-up, just a simple error.

There weren't a lot of people at that PC. It was very low-key, IMO.

 

[laytonian]

[/B]


He worked in SG Tuesday. Was in Cen. Nev/N. Ut on Wed & Thurs. Back in SG on Fri. As discussed earlier, it is a rather long drive back to SG via the main route, and if he was to attend the TWM in SG he would have to have left the SLC area prior to 10-11 AM to get there by 6 PM. BUT, she states he was in N.Ut on the 9th. The bank records of the debit charges in that area during that time period would be proof, but we don't have them---with the actual purchase time. I imagine LE might have them; and she may be aware of the actual times-thus the statements that she made. But, there is no way to be in two places at the same time----unless he flew...(as we have discussed before)

He took the "main route" both ways. Otherwise, he didn't buy gas on one way, and filled up twice on the other way.

Some discussed "he flew" (not me) ... but someone had to drive his car, whether he was in it or not.

Remember, I made you a special web page on Feb 23rd, "testing" the various routes he'd have driven back and forth....and how fast he'd have had to drive:
http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/home/koecher-html/odd-links

545 miles/4.5 hours = 121.11mph average on I-80 and I-15.

The page hasn't been revised since (you can check the Google timestamp up in the left corner).

Note that Feb 23rd was while we still had the Ruby Valley visit on Dec 9th...and that we didn't change it until just before that family press conference, which was on Feb 26th.

We shouldn't flatter ourselves into thinking the family knows what we do, or particularly cares.