4/19/04 Globe: DNA is saliva and mucous from runny nose

[BlueCrab]

Beckner's deposition, where the existence of "DNA-X" was revealed, tells us that the DNA-X was not found on JonBenét's body.

JonBenet's saliva and mucus on her shirt, IMO, is not considered her body.

JMO

 

[Jayelles]

JonBenet's saliva and mucus on her shirt, IMO, is not considered her body.

JMO

Actually, in Beckner's depostion he said that DNA-x wasn't on her clothing either :-

2 Q Well, I mean --
3 A I answered the question in that context.
4 Q Known DNA -- I'm talking about DNA foreign
5 to JonBent.
6 A Okay.
7 Q That's what I'm asking you about and
8 whether any of that has been matched, DNA found on
9 her, foreign to her, whether that was matched to
10 Chris Wolf?
11 A DNA found on her?
12 Q Or on her clothing.
13 A And the question is did that match to
14 Chris Wolf? The answer is no.
15 Q Has it matched, been matched to anyone?
16 A The DNA on JonBent?
17 Q And/or on her clothing?
18 A No.
19 Q Obviously you're telling me there was DNA
20 that was not on JonBen t or on her clothing; is that
21 correct?
22 A Correct.
23 Q Where was that?
24 A We're getting into areas where I feel like
25 we can't go.

 

[Jayelles]

When it travels to a six year old girl's panties and the skin beneath her fingernails it revolting too.

Well snot can quite easily get under the fingernails of a child. Children stick their fingers up their nostrils and then touch things.

 

[Toltec]

I have zero education on DNA but if anyone is saying that degraded DNA was found under JonBenets nails and panties...then were the markers similar?

JonBenet does not look sick in her Christmas day photos. Her nose looks clean, eyes bright. My guess is that the strangulation caused the mucous and saliva on her nose and shirt.

I do recall the coroner swabbing JonBenet's inner thighs. Is it true that saliva was found? If so then I shudder to think what was done to the poor baby.

 

[Jayelles]

I have zero education on DNA but if anyone is saying that degraded DNA was found under JonBenets nails and panties...then were the markers similar?

JonBenet does not look sick in her Christmas day photos. Her nose looks clean, eyes bright. My guess is that the strangulation caused the mucous and saliva on her nose and shirt.

I do recall the coroner swabbing JonBenet's inner thighs. Is it true that saliva was found? If so then I shudder to think what was done to the poor baby.

There is no credible source which has stated that there are similar markers in the two DNA samples.

Someone raised an interesting point at another forum. Since both the panty and fngernail DNA samples were degraded, how likely is it that they both degraded in precisely the same way? Therefore, if some of the remaining markers were a match, would it be possible to construct the missing/broken strands from what was known of the other sample?

i.e.

If we have xxYxLLxS
and JAxxLLES

could these be combined to make JAYxLLES ?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Toltec, Lou Smit has said publically that the male DNA from the nail clippings and the male DNA in the panties is consistent. The information was given in videotaped interviews with Smit.

I don't know of anyone connected with the case who disputed Smit's claim.

The swabs on JonBenét's thighs revealed only her own blood, as far as I know.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Jayelles, when DNA is retrieved from samples, only certain areas on the DNA chain are examined. These 13 areas have been determined to be most effective for comparison purposes between individuals.

Markers left at those areas in the questioned sample are compared to markers in the exact same areas from known samples (individual people).

If some markers are missing or incomplete due to a poor crime scene sample, the sample can still be compared for purposes of ruling in or ruling out a suspect.

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles, when DNA is retrieved from samples, only certain areas on the DNA chain are examined. These 13 areas have been determined to be most effective for comparison purposes between individuals.

Markers left at those areas in the questioned sample are compared to markers in the exact same areas from known samples (individual people).

If some markers are missing or incomplete due to a poor crime scene sample, the sample can still be compared for purposes of ruling in or ruling out a suspect.

I understand about the 13 markers. What I want to know is if the DNA is degraded, does it screw up the ability to ascertain if a marker is present or not? I mean if JA are missing, would they know that YE were positions 3 and 4? I know that when the DNA degrades, it breaks up.

Your response doesn't really answer my question!

 

[Jayelles]

Toltec, Lou Smit has said publically that the male DNA from the nail clippings and the male DNA in the panties is consistent. The information was given in videotaped interviews with Smit.

I don't know of anyone connected with the case who disputed Smit's claim.

The swabs on JonBenét's thighs revealed only her own blood, as far as I know.

With respect, no-one connected to the case has disputed his claims about the blue lines either, but we know it to be misinformed. If we take the absence of someone disputing something to mean that it must be true, then there are many undisputed "FACTS" = i.e. the palmprint being Melinda's for starters.

 

[Britt]

If we take the absence of someone disputing something to mean that it must be true, then there are many undisputed "FACTS" = i.e. the palmprint being Melinda's for starters.

Excellent point, Jayelles. One might even assume that the Ramseys' failure to sue anyone (e.g. Wecht, Hodges, tabs) on John's behalf is proof of the "FACT" that John molested JonBenet, based on the majority expert medical opinion of prior abuse.

 

[Toth]

based on the majority expert medical opinion of prior abuse.

???????
There is no such majority expert medical opinion of prior abuse.
The most reliable evidence is that of the pediatrician who actually examined her several times and who was known to be particularly alert to any suggestion of child sexual abuse.
You can trot out all those "experts" on the panel who see abuse everywhere they look. They are advocates for a political agenda they are not acting as neutral physicians.

 

[K777angel]

???????
There is no such majority expert medical opinion of prior abuse.
The most reliable evidence is that of the pediatrician who actually examined her several times and who was known to be particularly alert to any suggestion of child sexual abuse.
You can trot out all those "experts" on the panel who see abuse everywhere they look. They are advocates for a political agenda they are not acting as neutral physicians.

Oh give it up Toth! There is NO WAY Dr. Beuf could have seen what the tissue slides showed upon autopsy (of prior trauma done to JonBenet) because he NEVER did a speculum exam on her!! The only way he could have
SEEN it!
So you must qualify your defense of him by adding that "with what Dr. Beuf
EXAMINED" he saw no evidence of abuse. Therein lies the problem.
He never EXAMINED where the abuse occured!

Not to mention that he was close friends with the Ramseys and would not have exactly been looking for sexual abuse.
I can tell you unequivocally that sexual abuse of a child can be hidden VERY well. And almost always is.
There are NOT always physical signs - nor immediate emotional signs.
The pain and fear and shame are shoved down very, very deep - to the point of NOT TELLING anyone.
Shame on you for dismissing even the possibility that that little girl was
molested when the physical evidence shows it most likely to be otherwise.
Who are you trying to protect?

ugh!

 

[Britt]

Oh give it up Toth! There is NO WAY Dr. Beuf could have seen what the tissue slides showed upon autopsy (of prior trauma done to JonBenet) because he NEVER did a speculum exam on her!! The only way he could have
SEEN it!
So you must qualify your defense of him by adding that "with what Dr. Beuf
EXAMINED" he saw no evidence of abuse. Therein lies the problem.
He never EXAMINED where the abuse occured!

Exactly, K777angel.

And for the newbies, I'll set the record straight so they don't get confused by Toth's above misinformation from the Ramseys' Tell a lie loud enough, long enough and often enough and people will believe it (quote: Hitler) department:

As you say, Angel, Beuf never looked for internal abuse and didn't even do an external exam in the four months prior to JB's murder. Therefore, he was not in a position to know whether she was being abused or not. Once again, here's the interview with the statements from Dr. Beuf himself:

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/09101997bynumabcprimetime.htm

It doesn't matter what the doc's opinion is if he's not in a position to know. Duh.

 

[Afton]

FROM THE NEW YORKER MAGAZINE

January 11, 1998

excerpt: see url below with full article

HuNter: "The public may be seeing the Ramseys more as prime suspects than we are. I've never before seen anything like the battery upon these people who, wealthy or not, are not receiving the presumption of innocence. And I am troubled by that."

"The cops became so convinced that the Ramseys did it," Hunter says, "that they've never been able to look at the evidence objectively."

On his to-do list is re-interviewing John and Patsy Ramsey and formally interviewing their son, Burke. There are several clues that were
apparently not pursued on Eller's watch, and some of them could point to an intruder scenario , that is, that someone from outside the house killed the child.

DNA that is not from the parents was found on the body, and police are now taking swab samples from the inside of people's mouths. "Even though it's a long shot," Hunter says, "if a swab sample did provide a DNA match to the DNA taken from JonBenet's body then police would be able to connect a second person to the murder." Such a connection might disclose the origin of another clue that has remained a mystery since the autopsy.

Dark fibers found on JonBenet's labia may not be consistent with anything owned by the Ramseys. Similarly two types of shoe prints, one found near the body on the first day of the investigation, do not match any footwear known to belong to the Ramseys.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/11/jonbenet/

 

[Wrangler]

If there really were mucus or saliva from anyone they could have gotten a complete DNA strand, not this partial we're all hearing about.

Sounds like someone needed to generate more revenue for their boss, American Media.

 

[Toltec]

What boggles my mind is that DNA from BOTH JonBenet's nails AND crotch were degraded! Is this "intruder" some sort of mutant?

 

[Shylock]

"The cops became so convinced that the Ramseys did it," Hunter says, "that they've never been able to look at the evidence objectively."

Hunter is worried about people looking at the evidence? This from a D.A. who hadn't see the inside of a courtroom for 10 years before the crime. Alex (let's make a deal) Hunter, the most incompetent D.A. to ever hold the job.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Hunter clearly said that the Boulder cops could not view the evidence objectively because the cops were so convinced the Ramseys did it.

 

[Nehemiah]

"DNA that is not from the parents was found on the body, and police are now taking swab samples from the inside of people's mouths. "Even though it's a long shot," Hunter says, "if a swab sample did provide a DNA match to the DNA taken from JonBenet's body then police would be able to connect a second person to the murder." Such a connection might disclose the origin of another clue that has remained a mystery since the autopsy."

What is being said here? To what other clue is the writer referring?

IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

"DNA that is not from the parents was found on the body, and police are now taking swab samples from the inside of people's mouths. "Even though it's a long shot," Hunter says, "if a swab sample did provide a DNA match to the DNA taken from JonBenet's body then police would be able to connect a second person to the murder." Such a connection might disclose the origin of another clue that has remained a mystery since the autopsy."

What is being said here? To what other clue is the writer referring?

IMO

Also, "... police would be able to connect a SECOND person to the murder."

Who was the FIRST person connected to the murder?

JMO