4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[Megnut]

In the history of ever, has there ever been a murder case where the defense didn't file motions, alleging withheld discovery?

Seems pretty standard to me. Defense Motions 101.

Next up motions to quash, motions to exclude, motions to delay, motions to dismiss...

And after that motions to pound the table loudly.

Jmo

 

[gliving]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1655978780505284608

 

[10ofRods]

Four months is a long time to wait for the information and IMO, the state will be eagerly attempting to get the same info if they have not received it. There are believable reasons why they may not have received some information; however, I cannot conceive of any that would explain why they do not have documents from Moscow PD. As I mentioned in another post, the state would have or would have requested as much information as possible from Moscow before deciding to make their case against BK.

Isn't the only thing they're asking for, from Moscow PD, the "notes and recordings" of an alleged interrogation (by Det. Payne) of Bryan Kohberger? I would assume that this was after Kohberger was read his Miranda rights. If in fact Payne put Kohberger in a room without his attorney there and "chatted" with him, that's a serious thing. Could that be the internal affairs issue?

OTOH, it's possible that no such interrogation took place. If Moscow PD hasn't given them documents showing it took place, how does the defense know it took place? I would assume because BK says so. But was it an interrogation or something else? I can't wait to find out this little detail.

IMO.

 

[kittythehare]

In the history of ever, has there ever been a murder case where the defense didn't file motions, alleging withheld discovery?

Seems pretty standard to me. Defense Motions 101.

Next up motions to quash, motions to exclude, motions to delay, motions to dismiss...

And after that motions to pound the table loudly.

Jmo

Ain't that the truth?
I have learned over the years to ignore them all, not my party, not my monkeys.

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1655978780505284608

To me that feels like a significant and important action.

 

[r3d-ros3]

Bryan Kohberger stopped police interview after question about Idaho murders

His attorney says Kohberger expects to be "exonerated" of all charges against him.

www.newsweek.com

According to a report published by Law & Crime—a legal affairs website—Kohberger initially waived his right to counsel following his arrest in a rural Pennsylvania town.

Kohberger initially spoke with law enforcement between five and 15 minutes at the Pennsylvania State Police barracks following his early morning arrest.

According to chief public defender Jason LaBar, Kohberger's Pennsylvania attorney, after BK was asked a question about the murders, he requested an attorney.

"Mr. Kohberger has been accused of very serious crimes, but the American justice system cloaks him in a veil of innocence," chief public defender Jason LaBar wrote in a statement after his arrest. "He should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise—not tried in the court of public opinion."

"Mr. Kohberger is eager to be exonerated of these charges and looks forward to resolving these matters as promptly as possible," he added.

Moscow Police Department Captain Anthony Dahlinger told the AP:
"We believe we've got our man."

I'm so glad you linked this article. I think that whatever happened immediately after BK's arrest (which also resulted in several strange lines picked up by MSM in the early days of his arrest, like "Did you arrest anyone else?") is what his defense is trying to learn more about. As others are speculating, they might be hoping to demonstrate sloppy police work in the interrogation / administration of Miranda Rights after BK was taken into custody. All IMO.

IMO, after seeing the recently released bodycam footage of the traffic stop where BK asks the cop so many questions about being stopped in the middle of an intersection, it would not surprise me in the slightest if he tried to explain / challenge / ask (incriminating OR exculpatory) follow up questions immediately following his arrest. Whatever he said might also be of interest to the defense's case -- perhaps he offered an immediate explanation to PA cops / FBI and the defense wants confirmation of that explanation to present in the preliminary hearing. IMO, and hopefully that makes sense. Simply put, BK might have said something to police immediately following his arrest that his defense wants an additional record of.

 

[Cool Cats]

My imagination is making funny movies about how that might have gone down.
Here's your Miranda, Brian,
A. Thanks don't need it. Weather is great isn't it.?

Q yes Brian it is very good for this time of year, you can even sneak around at night dropping parcels in neighbours' dustbins while wearing shorts.
A. oh yes, I run a secret clean streets programme, it's my way of giving back to society. I'm in College, you know?
QYeah, We know. Just here to talk about the Idaho massacre because we believe you have information about it that you wouldn't mind sharing? Smile.
A
LAWYER, LAWYERLAWYER, LAWYERLAWYERLAWYER..

Just my imaginings not based upon fact, more like irritation.

Most importantly,

I want that kitten!!!! Little Mr/Miss Hare...lol

OK, now....

BK was arrested in his PA house and I assume his Miranda Rights were given at that time because in Pennsylvania LE cannot question a person - who they are detaining - without advising them of their right to stay silent and so forth.

I believe BK acknowledged that he knew his rights but offered to answer questions just so he could get an idea of what LE had on him. He likes to ask questions, as we can see from his Moscow traffic stop, so I imagine that he was trying to get as much information from LE as he could get.

Evidently he talked to Payne and I imagine it was for the same reasons, to find out whatever he could about the investigation against him.

When he was asked the questions, and he fully realized he wasn't running this show, he took control by asking for an attorney. Not answering LE questions would have given him the "upper hand" so to speak.

Bryan is always "right" according to Bryan. (know-it-all)

2 Cent Opinion

What are my Miranda Rights in Pennsylvania?

Pennsylvania citizens are entitled to Miranda Warnings from police. Paul S. Peters III, Esq. explains your right to remain silent in Pennsylvania.

thepetersfirm.com

 

[SpiderFalcon]

So, now, everybody has new attorneys...


From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050923 Notice of Appearance.pdf

 

[SpiderFalcon]

And here's this:

Idaho Lawyer - Elisa G Massoth PLLC

Need an attorney in Idaho? Talk to an experienced attorney with a proven track record in Criminal Defense, Civil Law, and Estate Planning.

kmrs.net

 

[jepop]

Here's a cut and paste re DET Payne from Defense's Motion to Compel.
No mention of where the "interrogation" took place. IMO it was in PA, just after arrest, and relates to the sources currently being cited in the thread here; ie the brief 5-15 minutes BK spoke with police in PA barracks after his arrest before invoking his rights as cited by LaBar (PA Attorney) in interviews. MOO

"Mr. Kohberger requests an Order for the State to disclose the following items included in the Defendant’s Ist “ Supplemental Request for Discovery:
Request No. 119 — All notes recordings from all Officers from Moscow
Police Department
As of May 4, 2023 Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received recordings
and notes from the interrogation of Mr. Kohberger by MPD Detective Payne."

Noting too in this item, Request 119 is "All notes...." etc, but I think that is just the content of the Request number. I would say defense have received what they asked for under 119 ie "all notes recordings from all Officers from Moscow Police Department" excepting the DET Payne interrogation. MOO

EBM: Sorry about font size. It's either minute or this size because of cut and paste issue. Opted for bigger.

ETA: "Interrogation" may simply be word choice by the defense. IMO what is sought is not an interrogation in the sense of a formal interview after BK was read his rights. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

I'm so glad you linked this article. I think that whatever happened immediately after BK's arrest (which also resulted in several strange lines picked up by MSM in the early days of his arrest, like "Did you arrest anyone else?") is what his defense is trying to learn more about. As others are speculating, they might be hoping to demonstrate sloppy police work in the interrogation / administration of Miranda Rights after BK was taken into custody. All IMO.

IMO, after seeing the recently released bodycam footage of the traffic stop where BK asks the cop so many questions about being stopped in the middle of an intersection, it would not surprise me in the slightest if he tried to explain / challenge / ask (incriminating OR exculpatory) follow up questions immediately following his arrest. Whatever he said might also be of interest to the defense's case -- perhaps he offered an immediate explanation to PA cops / FBI and the defense wants confirmation of that explanation to present in the preliminary hearing. IMO, and hopefully that makes sense. Simply put, BK might have said something to police immediately following his arrest that his defense wants an additional record of.

If he said it in PA to PA authorities, then it would be on the list of things the Defense wants from PA (and we do not know if PA has been forthcoming, whether they considered the speech of BK to be part of an interrogation (and therefore documented) or not.

If he said it in Moscow, then that would be the Det. Payne material that we've been discussing. But it is indeed odd that Det Payne would be "interrogating" BK without a lawyer present. I can't go there unless there's evidence. If BK blurted something out and no one wrote it down, what happens then? I feel as if it might have been utterances of BK that BK believes were heard by Payne, but that's totally my guess. This could not be "immediately following his arrest" as he had traveled cross-country, under arrest, for many hours (after requesting a lawyer and being advised of his rights in PA). Moscow PD cannot have a record of what BK said in PA when they weren't there. If a Moscow LE was in PA, he wouldn't be writing reports for the PA LE, IMO.

So, whatever it is that the defense thinks Moscow LE hasn't turned over (from Payne) remains a mystery. If in the meantime, Payne has gone before the Judge and sworn that he had no such conversations and there are no records, the Judge may then tell the defense that their request has no results.

We have less than two months to wait, I guess.

IMO.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

In the history of ever, has there ever been a murder case where the defense didn't file motions, alleging withheld discovery?

Seems pretty standard to me. Defense Motions 101.

Next up motions to quash, motions to exclude, motions to delay, motions to dismiss...

And after that motions to pound the table loudly.

Jmo

hahahahaha!!!! Thanks for the laugh!!!!! During a big trial DECADES ago, I used to call all of the above THE JOHNNIE COCHRAN STRUT.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm so glad you linked this article. I think that whatever happened immediately after BK's arrest (which also resulted in several strange lines picked up by MSM in the early days of his arrest, like "Did you arrest anyone else?") is what his defense is trying to learn more about. As others are speculating, they might be hoping to demonstrate sloppy police work in the interrogation / administration of Miranda Rights after BK was taken into custody. All IMO.

IMO, after seeing the recently released bodycam footage of the traffic stop where BK asks the cop so many questions about being stopped in the middle of an intersection, it would not surprise me in the slightest if he tried to explain / challenge / ask (incriminating OR exculpatory) follow up questions immediately following his arrest. Whatever he said might also be of interest to the defense's case -- perhaps he offered an immediate explanation to PA cops / FBI and the defense wants confirmation of that explanation to present in the preliminary hearing. IMO, and hopefully that makes sense. Simply put, BK might have said something to police immediately following his arrest that his defense wants an additional record of.

YOUR QUOTE:

"after seeing the recently released bodycam footage of the traffic stop where BK asks the cop so many questions about being stopped in the middle of an intersection, it would not surprise me in the slightest if he tried to explain / challenge / ask (incriminating OR exculpatory) follow up questions immediately following his arrest."

You read my mind, I just posted the same thing. That the Moscow traffic stop shows BK asks alot of questions and would want to run the narrative.

His neighbor avoided him because he was too talkative.

His WSU Department kicked him out because he wanted it his way. His Professors couldn't get him to conform his teaching behavior, evidently he went forward doing his TA job in the way he saw fit. 2 Cents

 

[10ofRods]

Here's a cut and paste re DET Payne from Defense's Motion to Compel.
No mention of where the "interrogation" took place. IMO it was in PA, just after arrest, and relates to the sources currently being cited in the thread here; ie the brief 5-15 minutes BK spoke with police in PA barracks after his arrest before invoking his rights as cited by LaBar (PA Attorney) in interviews. MOO

"Mr. Kohberger requests an Order for the State to disclose the following items included in the Defendant’s Ist “ Supplemental Request for Discovery:
Request No. 119 — All notes recordings from all Officers from Moscow
Police Department
As of May 4, 2023 Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received recordings
and notes from the interrogation of Mr. Kohberger by MPD Detective Payne."

Noting too in this item, Request 119 is "All notes...." etc, but I think that is just the content of the Request number. I would say defense have received what they asked for under 119 ie "all notes recordings from all Officers from Moscow Police Department" excepting the DET Payne interrogation. MOO

EBM: Sorry about font size. It's either minute or this size because of cut and paste issue. Opted for bigger.

So, do you think it's possible Payne went to PA? I mean, it's obviously possible, is it likely? That could be the solution to the mystery. If Payne and the PA officers all heard the same brief conversation with Kohberger upon arrest, I can see why they'd want each version of what he said. If Payne regarded it as an interview conducted by PA, I wonder if he wrote up what he heard right away. If he thought the interrogation was being conducted by PA authorities, I can see how he might not have recorded it himself.

Just spitballing. It's interesting that the missing items all seem to point to PA. IMO. No offense to PA! Los Angeles County is SO slow at getting records to places outside the County (even within the state) that entire cases have been derailed by their slowest (on occasion). Good records people are hard to find (the person who is in charge of records in the PA County where Kohberger was arrested needs to be the person to certify and send the documents, IMO). In Los Angeles, despite everything being supposedly digitized, the turnover in the records department is so high, that I'd say that doesn't help. It's an entire profession and there's always an open job announcement for it here.

Careers Civilian Promotional | Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department

Look at the available civilian job positions that are open to current Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department employees.

lasd.org

The population of Monroe County, PA is about the size of the town I live in (170,000 or so). That's not very large. And they do have an add up for a records' tech. Doesn't say how many they need, it's just "open till filled."

Monroe County PA - Clerk of Courts RecordsTechnician

www.monroecountypa.gov

There's not a link that I can find on the Monroe County Sheriff's homepage that says clearly how to request documents, either.

Monroe County PA - Sheriff

www.monroecountypa.gov

IMO. I would think that whatever reports were generated in PA, there would need to be a document subpoena or some other court order to make the reports come from PA to ID. If the State is saying they too need those same records, well, then clearly, PA is slower at delivering records that expected by some in Idaho. But it's hard to say how long it usually takes to get documents. I know that when someone at my work was about to be charged criminally, it took 8 months to get most of the police records from three jurisdictions.

 

[jepop]

So, do you think it's possible Payne went to PA? I mean, it's obviously possible, is it likely? That could be the solution to the mystery. If Payne and the PA officers all heard the same brief conversation with Kohberger upon arrest, I can see why they'd want each version of what he said. If Payne regarded it as an interview conducted by PA, I wonder if he wrote up what he heard right away. If he thought the interrogation was being conducted by PA authorities, I can see how he might not have recorded it himself.

Just spitballing. It's interesting that the missing items all seem to point to PA. IMO. No offense to PA! Los Angeles County is SO slow at getting records to places outside the County (even within the state) that entire cases have been derailed by their slowest (on occasion). Good records people are hard to find (the person who is in charge of records in the PA County where Kohberger was arrested needs to be the person to certify and send the documents, IMO). In Los Angeles, despite everything being supposedly digitized, the turnover in the records department is so high, that I'd say that doesn't help. It's an entire profession and there's always an open job announcement for it here.

Careers Civilian Promotional | Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department

Look at the available civilian job positions that are open to current Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department employees.

lasd.org

The population of Monroe County, PA is about the size of the town I live in (170,000 or so). That's not very large. And they do have an add up for a records' tech. Doesn't say how many they need, it's just "open till filled."

Monroe County PA - Clerk of Courts RecordsTechnician

www.monroecountypa.gov

There's not a link that I can find on the Monroe County Sheriff's homepage that says clearly how to request documents, either.

Monroe County PA - Sheriff

www.monroecountypa.gov

IMO. I would think that whatever reports were generated in PA, there would need to be a document subpoena or some other court order to make the reports come from PA to ID. If the State is saying they too need those same records, well, then clearly, PA is slower at delivering records that expected by some in Idaho. But it's hard to say how long it usually takes to get documents. I know that when someone at my work was about to be charged criminally, it took 8 months to get most of the police records from three jurisdictions.

Yeah, I'm assuming he went to PA on 30 December for arrest and spoke with BK at the barracks. But It may not have been a formal 'interrogation' as such. Interrogation is the defense's word choice in this instance and open to interpretation IMO. Those are interesting ideas on how it might have gone down to explain this item in the motion. I'm mostly going on what LaBar said in interviews at the time...something like BK spoke briefly before invoking his rights. I really can't see how there could have been an interrogation of any kind in Idaho without his counsel being present. I just don't think that happenned so it has to be PA. MOO. Also it could be that at this point, the Payne material is still "work product" or something and thus currently excluded from discovery under ID Rule 16. That's my "spitball"! MOO

Thanks for your thoughts on potential issues getting documents out of PA. That could certainly be playing a role in the delay I guess if there are some kind of bureucratic bottle necks. But I wouldn't have a clue about that sort of stuff!

 

[10ofRods]

They would want to know when BK was mirandized. What was asked/answered before then? What questioning continued after the Miranda? When did he ask for an attorney? What questioning continued after he asked? This certainly should be available, so I am unclear why it has not been produced.

I thought that part was produced (it's part of the Court record in PA, I thought). They had a case number on him for the service of the arrest warrant and they served the warrant, brought him in, read him his rights (which he initially waived and then 5-15 minutes later, he asked for an attorney to be present, and they got him one).

Everyone who reported this at the time said that questioning stopped when he asked for his attorney. His attorney in PA said that as well, IIRC.

At around 28:00 and following on this news video from the day of Kohberger's extradition hearing, his attorney Anne Taylor says no one should be talking to him:

So, clearly, his rights had been asserted before extradition. Have we ever heard that Det. Payne traveled to PA? That would be unusual. At any rate, Kohberger's current attorney was already on the case (we know she was at 1122 King Road looking over the crime scene before his extradition hearing).

Taylor seems to say explicitly that he is "in [her] custody" and she is responsible for protecting his rights and NO ONE shall talk to him (he's still in PA that day). Before that, of course, he had the other lawyer. I just don't see how Det Payne sneaked in there while in PA and I doubt he sneaked in to talk to BK in Moscow, either (although it's possible BK volunteered something in a jailhouse conversation, I suppose - something his attorney would have advised him not to do).

IMO.

 

[jepop]

I thought that part was produced (it's part of the Court record in PA, I thought). They had a case number on him for the service of the arrest warrant and they served the warrant, brought him in, read him his rights (which he initially waived and then 5-15 minutes later, he asked for an attorney to be present, and they got him one).

Everyone who reported this at the time said that questioning stopped when he asked for his attorney. His attorney in PA said that as well, IIRC.

At around 28:00 and following on this news video from the day of Kohberger's extradition hearing, his attorney Anne Taylor says no one should be talking to him:

So, clearly, his rights had been asserted before extradition. Have we ever heard that Det. Payne traveled to PA? That would be unusual. At any rate, Kohberger's current attorney was already on the case (we know she was at 1122 King Road looking over the crime scene before his extradition hearing).

Taylor seems to say explicitly that he is "in [her] custody" and she is responsible for protecting his rights and NO ONE shall talk to him (he's still in PA that day). Before that, of course, he had the other lawyer. I just don't see how Det Payne sneaked in there while in PA and I doubt he sneaked in to talk to BK in Moscow, either (although it's possible BK volunteered something in a jailhouse conversation, I suppose - something his attorney would have advised him not to do).

IMO.

I hear you @10ofRods absolutely, but I think there is still a chance DET Payne did just get in there first. As Arrest was very early am or something 30 Dec, BK may have been at barracks early am, maybe just hours before AT was appointed. LaBar would have been called to the barracks/jail though I'm assuming. He was only BK's rep for a short period of time before AT took over. MOO and I'm semi-guessing. I think the word "interrogation" could be muddying the waters and confusing things though. It may just be a matter of Payne saying two words to him. At this point I'm throwing up hands on this and saying who knows? ! MOO

 

[Boxer]

I'm so glad you linked this article. I think that whatever happened immediately after BK's arrest (which also resulted in several strange lines picked up by MSM in the early days of his arrest, like "Did you arrest anyone else?") is what his defense is trying to learn more about. As others are speculating, they might be hoping to demonstrate sloppy police work in the interrogation / administration of Miranda Rights after BK was taken into custody. All IMO.

IMO, after seeing the recently released bodycam footage of the traffic stop where BK asks the cop so many questions about being stopped in the middle of an intersection, it would not surprise me in the slightest if he tried to explain / challenge / ask (incriminating OR exculpatory) follow up questions immediately following his arrest. Whatever he said might also be of interest to the defense's case -- perhaps he offered an immediate explanation to PA cops / FBI and the defense wants confirmation of that explanation to present in the preliminary hearing. IMO, and hopefully that makes sense. Simply put, BK might have said something to police immediately following his arrest that his defense wants an additional record of.

Who doesn't ask for an attorney immediately after being arrested a middle of the night in SWAT raid that broke doors and windows of your parenrs house?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I believe once BK was charged officially, he was terminated and could have been trespassed from WSU. I wonder what the by laws of WSU are in regards to student or TA being charged with a felony or four. ETA: I did find the WSU Code of Conduct linked below.

<Snipped> Link for Code of Conduct WSU

M. Emergency Authority of the University
Under WAC 478-121-237, if there is reasonable cause to believe that a student's conduct represents a threat to the health, safety, or welfare of the University or any member of the University community, or poses an ongoing threat of substantially disrupting or materially interfering with University activities or operations, the president, the president's delegate, the vice president for Student Life for UW Seattle or delegates, and the chancellors of the UW Bothell and Tacoma campuses or delegates, may immediately suspend that student from participation in any or all University functions, privileges, or locations.

SGP, Student Policies, Chapter 209, Student Conduct Policy for Academic Misconduct and Behavioral Misconduct

Just want to point out that this link is for UW, not WSU.

It could be the same/similar for WSU, but they are entirely different universities. HTH

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Who doesn't ask for an attorney immediately after being arrested a middle of the night in SWAT raid that broke doors and windows of your parenrs house?

Well... I watch a lot of interrogation vids and there's various answers to that question IMO

1) Someone who is absolutely innocent and knows they have done nothing wrong and have nothing to fear; (but we all know they should get an attorney anyway)

2) Someone who is unclear of their legal rights and hasn't been directly informed by LE, as one would expect them to be;

3) Someone who is guilty but wants to appear relaxed, as if they have nothing to fear;

4) Someone who is guilty but very controlling and arrogant, so wants to ask a million questions before they decide if they need an attorney or not, trying to scope out what cards LE hold and whether they're likely to be detained or can negotiate making an appointment to come back another day;

5) Someone guilty but so delusional / in denial about their guilt they believe they have nothing to fear and will be going home in 20 mins; (Reference Sarah Boone, alleged suitcase killer)

Uhmm I know which one I think it is in this instance.

Feel free to add more