4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

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maconrich said:
I actually wasn't being flippant - at least not totally. I've read over and over that he most likely killed them because one or more of them rejected him. By rejection, I'd take it to mean he asked one or more of them out or to have a cup of coffee with him (rather than outright sexual rejection, because i think he might be a bit tactless, but not so brazen as to ask a stranger to have sex with him right away). Of course I could be wrong.

As for being misogynistic: why would a man seem to have good friends who are women if he genuinely hates women? Granted he was apparently bullied by girls when he was younger, and I can see anger, resentment and possibly psychological / emotional damage due to that, and I've wondered if boys bullied him too. Regardless it had to have an impact on him, and yet his friends from back then were his friends, and they've said he did have a small group of friends (which changed to another small group of friends when he started doing drugs). Same thing when he was in college (based on what we've been told). And a few said he'd do anything to fit in. So instead of hating women, I'd be more likely to believe he might resent and dislike people in general: or more specifically how people treated him.

A knife might be more personal, but it's quieter than a gun and faster than strangulation - and who ever did this, was apparently fast and effective. But I do see... not sure how to word this so it's not too much... It's like if you're really angry and you throw something at a wall. The act of throwing feels good and helps reduce the anger. And I can see that using a knife could do kind of the same thing. And to stab that many people, there would have to have been a lot of anger. I don't think I worded that very well, but again trying to watch what I'm saying.

I don't know what motivated the killer or what made him act on that particular night. Even if the house was being watched, what was different about that night? Something was, and IMHO, like I said, I don't think it was because someone said no to a date or a cup of coffee. That might make someone throw something at a wall, but it doesn't seem like it would make them kill four people. Then again, people kill other people over road rage and that doesn't make sense either. I can only look at what we've been told so far, and some things I can see and others I can't. In the other post, I mainly focused on the things I'm not buying - not at this point. Not based on what we know.

All MOO, IMO, etc
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The "bullying" by girls is a one source item. The girls may have got a potential for violence vibe from him and not allowed him near them.
MOO this is often the case IMO, the vibe is off, so rejection follows and resentment without reflection builds.
 
Boxer said:
The "bullying" by girls is a one source item. The girls may have got a potential for violence vibe from him and not allowed him near them.
MOO this is often the case IMO, the vibe is off, so rejection follows and resentment without reflection builds.
Click to expand...
That's possible. The vibe being off or them just not wanting him around. Girls can be mean - kids in general can be mean, but it could be what you're saying.
 
arielilane said:
IIRC, KG had already moved out of the residence and only visiting at the time of the murders, staying in MM's room as her room already cleaned out. Link provides a detailed account of what may have happened.

www.usatoday.com

Timeline of Idaho killings: When and where the victims were targeted

A deeper look at the Idaho college killings: Mapping accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged path
www.usatoday.com

Published 6:00 AM EST Jan. 14, 2023 Updated 1:17 PM EDT May 21, 2023
Click to expand...

Kaylee's bed, mattress, and bedding were still there. They can be seen in the photos as police processed the home. Kaylee's dad also picked up on it.

www.foxnews.com

Father of slain Idaho student says conflicting police claims leave families with more questions than answers

Steve Goncalves, the father of slain University of Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves appealed to the public for help to move the investigation forward.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
maconrich said:
That's possible. The vibe being off or them just not wanting him around. Girls can be mean - kids in general can be mean, but it could be what you're saying.
Click to expand...
Regarding the bullying accusations, both his parents were employed at the same school; his father was the maintenance person and his mother was a teacher's helper. It seems likely that they would have been aware of these allegations - it would stand to reason that they would have intervened on his behalf.
 
I agree with the posts re: DM mistaking murder sounds/thumping to be someone playing with the dog.

I wonder if BK had a "security guard" outfit? He likely wore one in his previous job. It might have been a safe way for him to stake out the house or even just walk in briefly during a big party ("checking because of a noise complaint" or something similar). I doubt he would be questioned and it would give him a "reason"/the voice of authority type feeling and demeanor if he should be questioned by students in the house or yard. Speculation and MOO.
 
Idaho transplant said:
Regarding the bullying accusations, both his parents were employed at the same school; his father was the maintenance person and his mother was a teacher's helper. It seems likely that they would have been aware of these allegations - it would stand to reason that they would have intervened on his behalf.
Click to expand...
If they knew it seems likely they would have, but would that have made kids tease or bully him more (for running to mom and dad and telling on them)?
 
maconrich said:
I actually wasn't being flippant - at least not totally. I've read over and over that he most likely killed them because one or more of them rejected him. By rejection, I'd take it to mean he asked one or more of them out or to have a cup of coffee with him (rather than outright sexual rejection, because i think he might be a bit tactless, but not so brazen as to ask a stranger to have sex with him right away). Of course I could be wrong.

As for being misogynistic: why would a man seem to have good friends who are women if he genuinely hates women? Granted he was apparently bullied by girls when he was younger, and I can see anger, resentment and possibly psychological / emotional damage due to that, and I've wondered if boys bullied him too. Regardless it had to have an impact on him, and yet his friends from back then were his friends, and they've said he did have a small group of friends (which changed to another small group of friends when he started doing drugs). Same thing when he was in college (based on what we've been told). And a few said he'd do anything to fit in. So instead of hating women, I'd be more likely to believe he might resent and dislike people in general: or more specifically how people treated him.

A knife might be more personal, but it's quieter than a gun and faster than strangulation - and who ever did this, was apparently fast and effective. But I do see... not sure how to word this so it's not too much... It's like if you're really angry and you throw something at a wall. The act of throwing feels good and helps reduce the anger. And I can see that using a knife could do kind of the same thing. And to stab that many people, there would have to have been a lot of anger. I don't think I worded that very well, but again trying to watch what I'm saying.

I don't know what motivated the killer or what made him act on that particular night. Even if the house was being watched, what was different about that night? Something was, and IMHO, like I said, I don't think it was because someone said no to a date or a cup of coffee. That might make someone throw something at a wall, but it doesn't seem like it would make them kill four people. Then again, people kill other people over road rage and that doesn't make sense either. I can only look at what we've been told so far, and some things I can see and others I can't. In the other post, I mainly focused on the things I'm not buying - not at this point. Not based on what we know.

All MOO, IMO, etc
Click to expand...
Sorry if my post wasn't clear. I was just responding to the points you raised re motive and reason.

In regard to your last paragraph, if guilty MOO I'm not sure a motive would be reasonably fathomable to others. I guess my point is also that none of what we know so far (from news reports, interviews with associates and friends and randoms) necessarily speaks to motive, but nor should we necessarily assume that it would. In a crime like this, motive may well have never been outwardly visible to others and those who were around the killer MOO.

If I wasn't clear, IMO, there isn't actually alot of evidence there (but by this I just mean news reports which are hardly evidence of much) for outright misogyny. I speculated that he may have some issues with women, even if he is not fully aware. A man can have female friends and still have issues, unresolved conflicts, hatreds hidden from himself etc and so forth (and vice versa ofcourse). It's gray rea stuff. MOO

ETA Sorry, I should elaborate that when saying a crime like this, I mean the evidence we do have - ie the brutality and premeditated nature, and -this is an assumption but I think a reasonable one-that the killer/suspect did not personally know the victims (ie was not a friend or colleague and probably not even a casual acquaintance). So the motive is a real sticking point when looking for the usual reasons - ie jealousy, personal gain, family killings etc. This is more along the lines of x4 brutal murders by a suspect essentially unknown to the victims, at least the evidence we have points that way. MOO

Edited spelling
 
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vls12345 said:
I agree with the posts re: DM mistaking murder sounds/thumping to be someone playing with the dog.

I wonder if BK had a "security guard" outfit? He likely wore one in his previous job. It might have been a safe way for him to stake out the house or even just walk in briefly during a big party ("checking because of a noise complaint" or something similar). I doubt he would be questioned and it would give him a "reason"/the voice of authority type feeling and demeanor if he should be questioned by students in the house or yard. Speculation and MOO.
Click to expand...
MOO that would be a highly memorable event for the party hosts and attendees.
 
jepop said:
Sorry if my post wasn't clear. I was just responding to the points you raised re motive and reason.

In regard to your last paragraph, if guilty MOO I'm not sure a motive would be reasonably fathomable to others. I guess my point is also that none of what we know so far (from news reports, interviews with associates and friends and randoms) necessarily speaks to motive, but nor should we necessarily assume that it would. In a crime like this, motive may well have never been outwardly visible to others and those who were around the killer MOO.

If I wasn't clear, IMO, there isn't actually alot of evidence there (but by this I just mean news reports which are hardly evidence of much) for outright misogyny. I speculated that he may have some issues with women, even if he is not fully aware. A man can have female friends and still have issues, unresolved conflicts, hatreds hidden from himself etc and so forth (and vice versa ofcourse). It's gray rea stuff. MOO
Click to expand...
I'm lost. In my last paragraph in the first or last message?

With motive and reason, I think I'm looking at things I'm not seeing as being likely to cause what happened. It does seem likely that things built up, but I totally agree that we really don't know much at this point. Not about motive or reason or what made that night different. And we know very little about BK aside from the bits and pieces that people who know him shared with the media. And we might know even less about what evidence there is (or isn't).

With killers who have said why they killed, I tend to be able to understand. From their point of view - not from my own / not based on anything I'd ever do or consider doing. And that kind of dark thinking is partly why I don't think only one person was targeted. It seems to me more like if someone is going to go into that situation (a house full of people), they're going to do the most damage possible instead of targeting the others after the fact.

Absolutely agree that people around him might not have had a clue that he could / would do something like this, and also possible they didn't have a clue what was going on inside his head. And I guess he's the only one that can tell us if he decides to do that (and I'm not sure that'll happen).

Ok, so what am I missing? I'm more than a little dense right now, so I'm sure the lack of clarity is on my part.

Edited to add MOO, IMO etc
 
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BTW, I think it is quite possible that he was not alone. A substance-dependent person can be manipulated, especially in withdrawal. We don’t know if he gave the ride to the house to someone. We don’t know how many people were in the Elantra. Or, maybe he took care of people on one floor, and someone else stabbed the other couple. We still don’t know. He might be keeping silent for two reasons, a) hoping to get out of it, or 2) hoping for the steady supply of drugs should he get LWP. Either way, if someone else was involved, it is hard for the police to make a convincing case.
 
maconrich said:
I'm lost. In my last paragraph in the first or last message?

With motive and reason, I think I'm looking at things I'm not seeing as being likely to cause what happened. It does seem likely that things built up, but I totally agree that we really don't know much at this point. Not about motive or reason or what made that night different. And we know very little about BK aside from the bits and pieces that people who know him shared with the media. And we might know even less about what evidence there is (or isn't).

With killers who have said why they killed, I tend to be able to understand. From their point of view - not from my own / not based on anything I'd ever do or consider doing. And that kind of dark thinking is partly why I don't think only one person was targeted. It seems to me more like if someone is going to go into that situation (a house full of people), they're going to do the most damage possible instead of targeting the others after the fact.

Absolutely agree that people around him might not have had a clue that he could / would do something like this, and also possible they didn't have a clue what was going on inside his head. And I guess he's the only one that can tell us if he decides to do that (and I'm not sure that'll happen).

Ok, so what am I missing? I'm more than a little dense right now, so I'm sure the lack of clarity is on my part.
Click to expand...
Last paragraph of the post I was responding to. But anyway - just re motive. I think I initially was just pointing out that catalyst (the cup of coffee denied) and motive can be two different things. There may have been a catalyst on the night (it may have been something internal to the killer, not anything to do with an outside event or maybe not, or that particular night may have been in an actual plan) but motive/the reason might be something else entirely. I agree with everything you say in this post you just wrote MOO
 
Charlot123 said:
BTW, I think it is quite possible that he was not alone. A substance-dependent person can be manipulated, especially in withdrawal. We don’t know if he gave the ride to the house to someone. We don’t know how many people were in the Elantra. Or, maybe he took care of people on one floor, and someone else stabbed the other couple. We still don’t know. He might be keeping silent for two reasons, a) hoping to get out of it, or 2) hoping for the steady supply of drugs should he get LWP. Either way, if someone else was involved, it is hard for the police to make a convincing case.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you on all points.

But Chief Fry said he believes BK acted alone.

www.ktvu.com

Moscow murders: Police chief believes suspect Bryan Kohberger acted alone

Police in Moscow, Idaho believe the suspect in the killings of four Idaho college students acted alone, chief James Fry indicated to Fox News Saturday.
www.ktvu.com www.ktvu.com
 
maconrich said:
I'm lost. In my last paragraph in the first or last message?

With motive and reason, I think I'm looking at things I'm not seeing as being likely to cause what happened. It does seem likely that things built up, but I totally agree that we really don't know much at this point. Not about motive or reason or what made that night different. And we know very little about BK aside from the bits and pieces that people who know him shared with the media. And we might know even less about what evidence there is (or isn't).

With killers who have said why they killed, I tend to be able to understand. From their point of view - not from my own / not based on anything I'd ever do or consider doing. And that kind of dark thinking is partly why I don't think only one person was targeted. It seems to me more like if someone is going to go into that situation (a house full of people), they're going to do the most damage possible instead of targeting the others after the fact.

Absolutely agree that people around him might not have had a clue that he could / would do something like this, and also possible they didn't have a clue what was going on inside his head. And I guess he's the only one that can tell us if he decides to do that (and I'm not sure that'll happen).

Ok, so what am I missing? I'm more than a little dense right now, so I'm sure the lack of clarity is on my part.

Edited to add MOO, IMO etc
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"So if this dude did it, IMHO it was for another reason. And a reason beyond someone saying no to a cup of coffee or something stupid like that."

I really should have just bolded the above (from your first post). I usually respond to posts that way but got lazy. So my bad on the confusion. It was essentially the above I was speaking to. So the reason and how that might be pretty complex and unfathomable given this very particular crime.
 
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