4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

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The gag order isn’t benefiting anyone in my opinion. Absence of sourced, factual information leads to speculation. Professional news media has shared ethical standards; Susie Social or Johnny Journo does not; and are largely unaware, IMO, of the harm they are causing or could be causing.

Lifting the gag order would let those in the know provide factual information or at least confirm or deny some of the information out there in cyber space.

Right now, professional reporters are at a disadvantage. Webcasters and YouTubers can speculate all they want; professionals won’t do this, and thus, are at a disadvantage. JMO
I think Judge Judge made solid points re the 1st and 6th Amendments, so I would lean his direction even more than I could have before. It is, as the judge said, a balancing act, and without the gag order, there is no possible balance imo. I loved what he said today.
 
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I fail at legalese but it seems Ms Taylor would like to read the proceedings. I thought she would already have access to this.

I keep reading that in Idaho, Defense is supposed to get a transcript (but transcripts can take a week or 10 days, where I live - maybe longer elsewhere?)

If she hasn't seen it, I wonder at the wisdom of having it be public, myself.

IMO.
 
Correct. No insanity defense, but it is considered a mitigating circumstance.

For sentencing. Which, if Kohberger continues on this path, may well exclude DP, and would be LWOP.

I am not knowledgeable about whether anyone has evaded the mandatory sentence in ID for insanity - I would assume that it mitigates the DP. In many states, the minimum sentence is the minimum sentence (and I think in ID, the min sentence for First Degree (mass) murder with an accompanying felony (burglary) is LWOP.

So...that's why I think it's more Alford-y than it is insanity.

IMO. Not really disagreeing, I just like betting waffles or donuts - I bet my waffles it's going toward Alford.
 
Judge entered plea for Idaho murder suspect Kohberger. Why? And what happens next?


Why does a defendant stand silent for a plea?​

When a defendant chooses not to enter a plea to the charges against them, they are deemed to be standing silent, as Anne Taylor, Kohberger’s appointed public defender, told the judge Monday. A judge then automatically converts a defendant’s decision to remain silent into a not guilty plea, said Elcox, a former Ada County deputy prosecutor.

“The judge can’t enter a guilty plea on somebody’s behalf,” she said. “The thought is that it’s kind of a way to preserve the ability to negotiate with the state” on a possible plea deal to avoid a trial.

In addition, Elcox said, the defense lacks several key pieces of information at the moment to decide how best to represent Kohberger and proceed with the legal process. Those factors likely contributed to the strategic decision by the defense, she said.

What information is the defense lacking?​

Of utmost importance, the defense does not yet know whether the prosecution will seek the death penalty if Kohberger is convicted. That decision is likely to weigh heavily into whether a plea agreement can be struck at some point, Elcox said.

“That’s probably a pretty significant factor, because the state hasn’t committed to whether or not they will seek the death penalty yet,” she said. “They need to know, ‘Yeah, you can plea,’ or that it’s off the table. Or, ‘We’re seeking this no matter what, no offers, no deals, and we’ll let a jury figure this out.’ “

Also, the defense has said it is still awaiting more evidence through the discovery process.

Judge, for example, on Monday scheduled a hearing in late June over the defense’s motion to compel discovery evidence that it says the state so far has withheld or not yet delivered. Thompson in response to the filings argued the state has met the requirements of Idaho law, and objected to specifics the defense sought about the DNA testing process that linked Kohberger to the crime scene.
 
A Latah County judge issued a stark warning following Bryan Kohberger’s arraignment that the media has done “irreparable harm” to Kohberger’s case and could affect his right to a fair trial.



5/22/2023

MOSCOW, Idaho — A Latah County judge issued a stark warning following Bryan Kohberger’s arraignment that the media has done “irreparable harm” to Kohberger’s case and could affect his right to a fair trial.
Judge John C. Judge told the court that the media and attorneys alike have a larger responsibility to the Sixth Amendment, the right to a speedy trial by an impartial jury.

After Kohberger, the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students, stood silent on Monday during his plea and a “not guilty” plea was entered on his behalf, a hearing was held to decide when to hear arguments on a non-dissemination order within the case.

This makes me so curious. Really? It seems to me that much of the media coverage has been stamped to the ground after he was arrested. Before that, surely we still have the right to Freedom of the Press?

I admire the previous judge's protection of BK's rights and I surely hope that Judge Judge is just as vigilant, but I hope he notices that the media have been pretty much frozen out of Idaho. What remains is interviewing people outside the Idaho investigation.

I don't like the tone of this judge deciding there's been irreparable harm. Ugh. I won't say more, but it is a very partial thing for a Judge to say/predict.

What's going on, I wonder.

IMO.
 

Just wrapped our stream and forgot to share the results of our unscientific #WFLANow social media poll.
What do you think?
Should the Idaho courts maintain the current gag order in the #BryanKohberger murder case?
Let us know why/why not below.




This is because most tax-paying citizens of every state view the Justice system as "their own." For a couple of centuries, we didn't have gag orders (but we also didn't have the free-fall of social media and non-reporting that goes on...everywhere).

I understand the citizens of Idaho. However, I get what the Judge is saying as well.

Never a dull moment in true crime analysis.

IMO.
 
Mr. Gray's statements (in bold) IMO demonstrate why the gag order should continue for him as a family attorney.


What is the evidence of that or better yet, the reason to stall? He's incarcerated without bail; he has no reason to delay because he's in jail regardless. He and AT must have discussed the plea and the speedy trial or not decision beforehand. If the intent of standing silent was to stall, why moments later, suggest a speedy trial?

The reason, right now, as of May 22, 10 pm EST, is...the Death Penalty?

I mean, it seems to me that this is a DP avoidance tactic, and I have to say that it's weird (to me and a couple of other WSers) that someone would have to plead to something without knowing whether it was a DP case or not. And I think this is a bargaining chip with the State, who is likely (I think; I bet waffles) to go for the DP.

The State has its own reasons both for and against going for the DP, which it now has to weigh. If the DP is asked from the Court, then BK can do an Alford plea, plain and simple. Avoid the DP.

I find this of both legal, psychological and cultural interest.

He has a reason to delay. As long as there is no trial, he can hope that he won't ever be convicted. IME, jailed humans often think jail is better than prison (but in reality, it can really vary and, well, it's often better to stick with a known bad quality than an unknown one). Maybe BK has trouble adjusting to new circumstances. He has an ipad, etc., at Latah County jail (not 24/7 of course, but sometimes; he could do worse than that).

I agree that he and AT had to have discussed the trial time (and it's strategic that they have not waived their right to a speedy trial - which they will have to do if they are not happy with how things are shaping up for Oct 2).

I'll join a lot of other WSers in predicting that the Defense will delay.

IMO.
 
"In a noticeable omission, the family of the slain 21-year-old refrained from thanking the hearing's presiding judge, after he flubbed Kaylee's first name."


<modsnip - bashing an approved news source is off topic>

As far as those who are upset at BK's "standing silent" re: his plea today. BK has seemingly competent legal advice & I would assume he "stood silent" on the advice of his lawyer(s). I would also assume that his lawyers have a good legal reason to suggest that route of action to him. So, I see it as BK & his lawyers together decided ahead of time that "standing silent" was the best choice for them to make at today's hearing.

BK is entitled to competent legal advice &, in a case of this magnitude, I would think he's maybe following advice that's being given to him by those privy to the Idaho legal intricacies re: murder charges.

My biggest question is what benefit the "standing silent" gives the defense? (I know people are discussing it & I'm still catching up on the updates from today.) I don't think it was used to cause offense. I think it was used strategically & I want to fully understand the why.

Yes, it's horrible on the victims' families. And, I do think BK is guilty. I cannot imagine how hard this is for the families. But, if BK wanted to (further) taunt or torment the families, he could make faces at them, or laugh inappropriately, or otherwise act out (which would likely get him dragged out of court early) during a court appearance like today. He didn't do that. He sat there, probably/seemingly followed his lawyer's advice, and exercised a legal plea option in the state of Idaho.

MOO.
 
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Judge entered plea for Idaho murder suspect Kohberger. Why? And what happens next?


Why does a defendant stand silent for a plea?​

When a defendant chooses not to enter a plea to the charges against them, they are deemed to be standing silent, as Anne Taylor, Kohberger’s appointed public defender, told the judge Monday. A judge then automatically converts a defendant’s decision to remain silent into a not guilty plea, said Elcox, a former Ada County deputy prosecutor.

“The judge can’t enter a guilty plea on somebody’s behalf,” she said. “The thought is that it’s kind of a way to preserve the ability to negotiate with the state” on a possible plea deal to avoid a trial.

In addition, Elcox said, the defense lacks several key pieces of information at the moment to decide how best to represent Kohberger and proceed with the legal process. Those factors likely contributed to the strategic decision by the defense, she said.

What information is the defense lacking?​

Of utmost importance, the defense does not yet know whether the prosecution will seek the death penalty if Kohberger is convicted. That decision is likely to weigh heavily into whether a plea agreement can be struck at some point, Elcox said.

“That’s probably a pretty significant factor, because the state hasn’t committed to whether or not they will seek the death penalty yet,” she said. “They need to know, ‘Yeah, you can plea,’ or that it’s off the table. Or, ‘We’re seeking this no matter what, no offers, no deals, and we’ll let a jury figure this out.’ “

Also, the defense has said it is still awaiting more evidence through the discovery process.

Judge, for example, on Monday scheduled a hearing in late June over the defense’s motion to compel discovery evidence that it says the state so far has withheld or not yet delivered. Thompson in response to the filings argued the state has met the requirements of Idaho law, and objected to specifics the defense sought about the DNA testing process that linked Kohberger to the crime scene.
Thank you @Cool Cats

Dennis Rader, BTK killer, took the same stand silent plea at his arraignment.
Interesting copycat behavior?
JMO



edit nothing
 
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Judge entered plea for Idaho murder suspect Kohberger. Why? And what happens next?


Why does a defendant stand silent for a plea?​

When a defendant chooses not to enter a plea to the charges against them, they are deemed to be standing silent, as Anne Taylor, Kohberger’s appointed public defender, told the judge Monday. A judge then automatically converts a defendant’s decision to remain silent into a not guilty plea, said Elcox, a former Ada County deputy prosecutor.

“The judge can’t enter a guilty plea on somebody’s behalf,” she said. “The thought is that it’s kind of a way to preserve the ability to negotiate with the state” on a possible plea deal to avoid a trial.

In addition, Elcox said, the defense lacks several key pieces of information at the moment to decide how best to represent Kohberger and proceed with the legal process. Those factors likely contributed to the strategic decision by the defense, she said.

What information is the defense lacking?​

Of utmost importance, the defense does not yet know whether the prosecution will seek the death penalty if Kohberger is convicted. That decision is likely to weigh heavily into whether a plea agreement can be struck at some point, Elcox said.

“That’s probably a pretty significant factor, because the state hasn’t committed to whether or not they will seek the death penalty yet,” she said. “They need to know, ‘Yeah, you can plea,’ or that it’s off the table. Or, ‘We’re seeking this no matter what, no offers, no deals, and we’ll let a jury figure this out.’ “

Also, the defense has said it is still awaiting more evidence through the discovery process.

Judge, for example, on Monday scheduled a hearing in late June over the defense’s motion to compel discovery evidence that it says the state so far has withheld or not yet delivered. Thompson in response to the filings argued the state has met the requirements of Idaho law, and objected to specifics the defense sought about the DNA testing process that linked Kohberger to the crime scene.
Very very very interesting...
 
IANAL either, but I read some Alford plea cases. I think it's the Judge's call. The prosecution should stipulate, in any case, that they have enough evidence to take the case to trial and win.

So, it's unlikely the prosecution will say otherwise.

Judge is supposed to agree, because many Alford pleas are appealed at some point (usually over sentencing). Not sure about the rest (and not sure of how Alford works, either).

IMO.

Just my point of view but I don't think an Alford plea would be justice for the families in this Case.

If BK is guilty then he needs to go to trial and be found guilty or plead guilty and get the DP dropped (if the prosecution files a DP Case)

To let BK plead Alford means he gets to spend the rest of his life telling everyone that he is innocent but admits the prosecution had alot of circumstantial evidence against him, enough to likely find him guilty in a trial.

Boils down to:

This arrogant killer gets away with never admitting guilt and never being found guilty.
 
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The internet is something the founders could have never imagined.

My fear is that once the generative models like ChatGPT get unlimited access to real time information and the bias contained within... it's going to practically impossible to have a fair trial...period. Avenues to appeals will be opened up to any and all inmates (this is mostly good) based off the smallest of forgotten about technicalities even for the truly guilty (this is not good). The courts are going to be flooded, overwhelmed, inefficient.

Excuse my French but this is as good as it's going to get for high profile cases, from here on out it's a show.

Excellent post. And weird, but studying human responses to murder (over the past 5000 years and into the fossil record going back to around 50,000) your point is well taken. Whatever efforts we make to have more rules and laws and trials, murder is murder. And people react to that.

I do believe that if human individuals had each discovered the bodies and known what that was like, trials would be different. If we go down the path of trying to "verify" every human perception, we'll be back to pre-historic justice (which is not pretty, but pretty effective; although...banishment into the hinterlands/ice floes is no longer possible, I don't think).

Creepy in the extreme, maybe they can just refuse to look at him ?
It's not as if he can get up and move.

Any good journalist is going to 1) look at him and 2) be able to withstand it if he looks back. IMO.

I’m a little lost here. It takes two separate individuals to lock eyes doesn’t it? So was she looking into his eyes when he locked eyes with her? Maybe I’m over analyzing, but I can choose who I want to make eye contact with. Maybe he saw her staring at him and he was trying to figure out who she is? IDK, IMO.

Journalists look at people (esp. defendants). Usually, people look away. This is the staring thing that BK does that I have commented on earlier.

Good journalists do not choose whom they look at, far from it. It seems like an odd thing to say, since journalists are paid for what they see - and looking away is the opposite of what they should do. If we're going to take up a seat in a court room, I feel we who write about crime should have the common sense to pay attention to...the alleged murderer. I have no clue how a person can be a journalist if they can't withstand this.

IMO.
 
My speculation but....

I wonder how many times BK has "stood silent" watching girls/women sleep.

I suspect he started in his own home.

And sought to master it into adulthood.

Reinforcing his fantasy of supreme power.
Apologies if I am not getting the context correct on this but are you equating a defendant exercising a Constitutional right with perverse stalking behaviour towards women?
 
Apologies if I am not getting the context correct on this but are you equating a defendant exercising a Constitutional right with perverse stalking behaviour towards women?
He’s accused of breaking into a house he has no business in and murdering 4 people.

This entire case is about him and his perverse stalking behavior.

Interpreting/Projecting/Perceiving his actions in court as a continuation of this behavior isn’t particularly surprising. The ghoulish vibes he gives off doesn’t help.
 
I think I find BK's standing silent plea distasteful because it indicates a willingness to game the system to his best advantage.
He's the only one alive who knows if he is guilty or innocent. And if he feels he can't share his choice between guilty and not guilty then that indecision only opens the door to more questions in my opinion.
It brings to my mind his statement that he ". . . is eager to be exonerated . . ." which doesn't seem to go hand in hand with standing silent.
Obviously very moooo - and probably makes it obvious to all who read why I struggled so with my one and only law class. :p:Do_O
I agree, @ExpectingUnicorns, with everything in your post (except the last part about it being obvious you struggled with your one and only law class) ;)

You were expecting unicorns, afterall :)

His arraignment today represented BK's first real opportunity to respond to the charges against him, and take the first step towards exonerating himself by entering a plea, since he supposedly told his PD he "believed he would be exonerated".

I understand it's a "strategy" for the defense to say nothing and leave the system (I.C.R.) and the judge to default to a "not guilty" plea in response to silence/no plea.

The rest of my post is just MOO, JMO, IMHO, etc.....

I'm not surprised, but I'm still sorely disappointed (for the victims' families and community and LE who, IMO have worked so incredibly hard to bring who they believe murdered Kaylee, Xana, Ethan, and Maddie to justice) in the default plea on his part, IMO, that he stands silent regarding his guilt or innocence.

It reminds me of a TV show I watched growing up, Hogan's Heroes, and every time Colonel Klink was confronted with being aware of or complicit in anything going on in a WWII POW camp he was running, he would just say in reply, "I know nothing, I hear nothing, I see nothing ".

It was super frustrating (but in this case, it was meant to be campy, or he was made a joke out of) that he was in charge of pretending there were no atrocities to be reckoned with, that he would never admit to.

I find BK to be similar, in this different but explicitly more horribly personal and atrocious situation.

No protestations of innocence, no denials of guilt, just the usual trope of "stay silent = never explain, never apologize".

It's just more extending of an unending tragedy, and adding insult to injury for the victims' families, IMO, for the defendant who has been indicated on all 5 felony charges, to plea nothing, just nothing. Nothing.

MOO

Hogan's Heroes - Wikipedia
 
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