4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[Dotta]

The parents, maybe? They'd be talked to directly by the police. But even they don't hear much, hence SG's frustration in the weeks before arrest. A lot of what he assumed about the investigation didn't turn out to have basis.

The spouse of an older sibling? She could have easily heard that E had been killed, and then watched it all play out on social media like the rest of us. Reading public groups. Talking to fraternity or sorority friends of friends of the housemates. Someone could have told her 'inside info' that they heard from someone who heard from someone, and she took it as hard fact, when it's not. And that's why we can't rely on social media, here, unless it's in MSM, and then only with a whole pile of salt.

MOO

E's siblings were called by the survivors and were 1st to arrive.

That is what I read in earliest reports.

E's brother lived nearby.
Was it frat house?

 

[NCWatcher]

Of all sources, I would believe the families most.
They surely had news first-hand.

JMO

I think you are correct the families were privy early on to some information not released to the public. Not everything LE knew and did but the families knew more than the general public. But we've seen instances where it certainly appears a family member may have misunderstood info. That can happen with anyone but it's more likely to happen when upset. But I'm not sure how easy it would be to misunderstand something and erroneously hear "when x happened I opened my door and yelled y." So it's a mystery.
JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

E's siblings were called by the survivors and were 1st to arrive.

That doesn't mean she that she got that information from them.

I know this is an MSM article, but there's stuff in it that seems to be in opposition to the PCA, and I'm more inclined to believe the legal document that got the suspect arrested using actual facts (including eyewitness statement corroborated by physical evidence, the shoe print) over the Daily Mail quoting someone recounting things at third hand at very best on social media, only a short time after the crime when no one knew anything for sure.

You're free to believe it if you think it's legit - it's MSM! It's allowed! But I very much have my skeptic hat firmly on about its contents, right now.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

That doesn't mean she that she got that information from them.

I know this is an MSM article, but there's stuff in it that seems to be in opposition to the PCA, and I'm more inclined to believe the legal document that got the suspect arrested using actual facts (including eyewitness statement corroborated by physical evidence, the shoe print) over the Daily Mail quoting someone recounting things at third hand at very best, only a short time after the crime when no one knew anything for sure.

You're free to believe it if you think it's legit - it's MSM! It's allowed! But I very much have my skeptic hat on firmly about its contents, right now.

MOO

I understand.
After all, who am I to demand info?

Let the LE and lawyers do their job.
Trial will disclose the truth.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

I understand.
After all, who am I to demand info?

Let the LE and lawyers do their job.
Trial will disclose the truth.

JMO

I know as little as you, right now. Everything in the Mail article may come out as fact at trial! And that's fine. I don't mind being wrong. I don't expect people to agree with me even half of the time. Neither of us is right or wrong at this point, we're just guessing.

We're here to ask questions, but we're also here for these four amazing young people. I feel that every day I'm on this thread. I feel it from you. You always ask interesting questions. I like that.

 

[maskedwoman]

I think DM might have said to LE when they asked her about her "state of mind" in the hours between seeing the masked man around 4 am and the call to LE after 11 am, that she was or must have been in a state of "frozen shock" and they "tagged on" the word "phase" because it implies she may have gone through several different phases or stages/states of mind throughout that morning.

For example:

An earlier phase could have been that she was groggy and upset at having been woken up by loud noises that she thought were from her housemates being rambunctious or "partying and horsing around" super late -- the "things are out of hand with my housemates phase".

Then after she had yelled out at them that she was trying to sleep and opened and closed the door 2 times, there was another phase after she was startled enough by seeing the masked man (unknown person who could have been a late night guest) in the house the 3rd time she opened the door to then close and lock her door, but was still assuming the noises had been from horsing around and he was just a guest "leaving" as he passed by going in the direction of the patio doors -- the "things finally quieted down but I wonder who that was" phase.

Then there was a phase where she thought more about the masked man and whether he made sense as a late night guest (wearing a mask due to Covid or other illness? wearing all black because some people do?) trying to process what seeing him "going towards the door" around the same time the house became quiet meant, then trying to reach out to her housemates on her phone to check in, and them not answering with her maybe thinking they broke up the party and sent guests home and finally are really trying to make sure everyone is super quiet and going to sleep" -- the "they must have finally kicked everyone out and now they've crashed out" phase.

Then there was a phase where she maybe considered other scenarios, especially if the masked man seemed "off'" for a typical late night guest and her housemates not answering made her increasingly uneasy (were they all 'locked down' staying silent in their rooms after sending a troublemaker on their way and promising not to call the cops on him?), such as someone showing up who had been to a party there before who was inebriated and wanted to crash there uninvited and ended up getting in a fight and making someone cry, or some random creep showing up and causing trouble or trying to sexually harass or assault one of them, and the noises she heard were them dealing with him and he was "sent on his way" and they all went back to bed after comforting whoever she thought she heard crying and locking their doors -- the "but what if that was a 'bad dude' in the house, one of them would have told me, right? phase".

Then there was the phase, perhaps intermixed with sleep and checking her phone for any delayed responses from housemates or friends or anything on SM from them, where she was dwelling on the more sinister possibilities but not being able to confirm anything, wondering if she misunderstood what was going on, sitting alone in the dark and getting more and more petrified of the "bad dude" who could still be in the house or lingering watching the house to make sure no one 'called the cops', thinking of other reasons why he could have been there, what he may have tried to do or done, or could still do to her, but being in disbelief or denial of anything really bad happening without her knowledge or one of the 5 other people in the house raising the alarm -- the "frozen shock phase".

JMO

THAT would make sense. Thank you!

 

[Boxer]

The parents, maybe? They'd be talked to directly by the police. But even they don't hear much, hence SG's frustration in the weeks before arrest. A lot of what he assumed about the investigation didn't turn out to have basis.

The spouse of an older sibling? She could have easily heard that E had been killed, and then watched it all play out on social media like the rest of us. Reading public groups. Talking to fraternity or sorority friends of friends of the housemates. Someone could have told her 'inside info' that they heard from someone who heard from someone, and she took it as hard fact, when it's not. And that's why we can't rely on social media, here, unless it's in MSM, and then only with a whole pile of salt.

MOO

Agree. Especially the the DM. they get important facts wrong all the time.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

She’s a government county employee. This isn’t typical, unless they go by a different protocol.

A government county employee trying a death penalty case isn't your typical government county employee. Lawyers are lawyers. Just because they work for the government doesn't mean they shouldn't get paid what they're worth (which is still much less than what they'd likely charge in the private sector). Otherwise, what's the incentive for any good lawyer to do it?

MOO.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Why is the public defender Anne Taylor getting paid $200 an hour?

Because she can!

 

[NyxNY]

Good post.

People think inmates getting email, computer, iPad access etc...means they have internet access but they never do.

SFF

Serious question. How do you suppose they are getting email without an internet connection?

 

[iamshadow21]

Because she can!

Yeah, I am in no way an experienced lawyer/attorney/barrister qualified for DP cases, and that sounds fair to me. Pay people for their work! She's got a complex, difficult job to do that is going to take up years (probably) of her life, while she juggles her other cases and personal life.

And if anyone has a problem with defense attorneys getting paid, remember that a vigorous, DP qualified defense by an experienced attorney and her team is going to close the door of one avenue for appeal if the defendant is found guilty. We WANT BK to have a good attorney, and that attorney deserves to be paid.

 

[maskedwoman]

I don't think it was fear of libel suits that motivated traditional journalistic ethics. In the USA, it is very hard to prove libel in the case of public figures, including suspects and crime victims. Journalists considered themselves professionals and had a code of ethics like any profession.

What has changed is a huge decline in newspaper readership and, in broadcast media, making the news divisions profit centers rather than loss leaders.

But if you are going to accuse journalists of inventing even the one, meagre source now required, I think you should provide some evidence.

I'm sure she isn't infallible, but what has AB reported thus far that has been proven to be so far outside the realm of possibility?

No, AB couldn't have invented reports about BK until he was identified as the suspected perp; but she could have invented other "alternative facts" if your cynical view were correct. Instead, most of her early reports highlighted what was NOT known.

I think either you have assumed quite a bit more than I intended or I did a terrible job of stating my thoughts. That's certainly possible. I don't remember accusing AB of inventing sources. I don't doubt that she has a source. We just don't have any idea how reliable that source is, and we won't know until at least June. It could very well be someone breaking the gag order, which would be a shame. Or it could be someone making crap up to feel important. (Come on June!) There were earlier discussions where others suggested that it was strange that she was coming out with all this inside info despite the gag order, and that some of it seemed to match up to the DM. One other poster even suggested it felt very tabloid-y, but that poster was not me.

I agree that it is hard to prove libel or slander. However, there have been a few high profile instances in the last 5 years of people obtaining large settlements from mainstream media because they were essentially tarred and feathered by reporting that was eventually proven completely false. Which suggests either the media's practices have gotten very lax, or their lawyers have gotten a lot worse. Hopefully, cooler heads have prevailed at those companies and we won't see that kind of thing again.

Have a great day, Nova. I enjoy your posts. I just think we've had a misunderstanding. Hopefully, we are all squared away now.

 

[Dotta]

Yeah, I am in no way an experienced lawyer/attorney/barrister qualified for DP cases, and that sounds fair to me. Pay people for their work! She's got a complex, difficult job to do that is going to take up years (probably) of her life, while she juggles her other cases and personal life.

And if anyone has a problem with defense attorneys getting paid, remember that a vigorous, DP qualified defense by an experienced attorney and her team is going to close the door of one avenue for appeal if the defendant is found guilty. We WANT BK to have a good attorney, and that attorney deserves to be paid.

Besides, it is not elegant to peek into somebody else's wallet/purse haha
Let's concentrate on our own business

 

[Teche]

I haven't seen anything in MSM about BK working full time anywhere.

These MSM articles say the security guard work at his former high school was part time:

"At some point more recently, Kohberger returned to his old high school to work as a part-time security guard."

Everything revealed about Bryan Kohberger, suspect in the Idaho college murders, since his arrest

"Bryan Christopher Kohberger had been working as a part-time security officer for Pleasant Valley School District, where his mother was on staff, when a hall monitor – a grandmother – began having trouble breathing and losing consciousness. Security guard Luis Fuentes, according to the Pocono Record, dispatched Mr Kohberger to retrieve the school AED as fellow staffers and emergency personnel attended to their coworker."

Bryan Kohberger devoted his life to studying crime. Now, the tables have turned

I wondering if he’s ever held a full-time job and lived on his own.

 

[CSIDreamer]

IMHO
The more we learn out about this case the more it seems the best course of action for the parties involved (unless BK has unexpected evidence of innocence) would be to take the death penalty off the table in exchange for a plea. Convincing SG might be the hurdle.

It's not up to SG, though. JMO

 

[Sundog]

Well, SG has no real say in the matter, just as a parent who doesn’t want the death penalty has no real say in the matter. The criminal justice system does not revolve around private vengeance or private forgiveness.

MOO

Thank you for repeating this information periodically, that in the U.S. criminal justice system, the crime is prosecuted as being against the state, representing all of us.

 

[Boxer]

I'm confused (thank you for posting that link by the way).... first it states that D thought the noise was from people partying in the house, and hollered out for them to quiet down. But, then later on, she's "scared of what she heard". Yet, D doesn't call police. I hope the families (and Ethan's SIL) get some answers about this soon.

MOO it’s not surprise a young person doesn’t call the police.
Socially it’s a an end to friendships; calling police on noisy roommates if it’s not murder.
In this case it was murder, but the probability of that was minuscule.

 

[DizzyB]

IMHO
The more we learn out about this case the more it seems the best course of action for the parties involved (unless BK has unexpected evidence of innocence) would be to take the death penalty off the table in exchange for a plea. Convincing SG might be the hurdle.

I cannot imagine BK taking a plea. I think he may want to hear every detail in court, where it will be shared with the public.

It's in a Daily Mail article, based off of things E's SIL was saying on social media when the crime had not long happened, very early days. I don't know where the SIL got her info - could have been someone actually there, could have been through the social media vine like so much of that early information/misinformation. We just don't know.
2) She shouted when he was upstairs in M's room. He then went down to X's room. After that, he thought he'd eliminated the shouter.

That could be it-BK thought Xana was the person he needed to silence. He may have had no idea that there was anyone left in the house after he murdered Xana and Ethan.

 

[ktm44]

100% MOO

I don't think LE knows the exact time that DM was actually awoken by sounds emanating from what seems like the 3rd floor (PCA). Hence the 'approximately 4am'.

DM likely woke up and tried to immediately dismiss what she heard and go back to sleep. "Goncalves playing with her dog" shows that she's making an attempt to rationalize what she hears. It's likely that she also makes an attempt to rationalizes the sounds that follow.

On the first door opening and the reported yelling of telling people to quiet down shows that she's still rationalizing what she's heard so far. And everything up until that moment she's attributing to a party (as reported) . It could also be a sign that she's texted her roommates and no one's responded and she's frustrated.

Opening the door a 2nd time is a good indicator of her growing concern over whatever ore she was hearing. Imagine looking out that door a 2nd time and not seeing anything. More cognitive dissonance.

What started off as more distant sounds on the 3rd floor slowly becomes louder, clearer and closer to her door. The sounds go from being attributed to Kaylee to now Xana.

Everything culimnates with the crying and the 3rd door open. Seeing BK.

Also worth keeping in mind that LE suspects the murder happened within a 15 minute time window. Which isn't a lot of time for all of the above to play out. Just the time span from "Kaylee with Dog" to hearing partying sounds and the first door opening was likely multiple minutes.

And over that 15 minutes the sounds were likely not a constant. So I'm picturing a lot of pauses and her sitting still trying to listen. Maybe even texting her roommates. (this would help lock in the time of the murders)

Her fear grew and escalated over a relatively short amount of time.

IMO she texted her roommates and only BF responded. And I think BF likely heard sounds to. And I think (people are gonig to hate this one) that they both came together to rationalize what they heard and wanted to believe that everything would be OK in the morning.

All MOO

I agree with your very logical opion. and have long since thought that the two surviving roommates carried on some kind of conversation regarding what they heard.

I can easily see both of them concluding that everything would be fine in the morning because I'm quite certain that both had their sleep interrupted in the past and there had been no tragic consequences.

Following your theory, which is very similar to mine, I would also suggest that having shouted out her door for quiet, I could see someone being quite startled or nervous to see a stranger (masked or not) appear in front of her door.

 

[jepop]

I see what you are saying but that wasn’t really what I was getting at. I’m saying the pca has info in there that seems like it might not reflect what the witness really meant. This is an opinion based off of what we know happened.

I'm a little lost but perhaps you're talking about the frozen shock statement in the light of 911 not being called until c12pm? We know that happened. Or the frozen shock statement in the light of the alleged info in the recent Daily M article? Could have happened. MOO. RE the 911 call, it's just been discussed ad nauseum here. I don't consider it my business but I still I feel intensely sad and sorry for DM. The only thing I believe 100 % is she could not have known 4 friends of hers were being knifed to death between c4.08 and c4.17 and she would have been in some kind of hell when she woke up the next day to the aftermath. I just hope for her healing and for her to be surrounded by kindness and support. RE EC's SIL and alledged reddit posts, if true I wish that the SIL victim had not vented about DM on sm like that and I wish the Daily M had decided against making a story out of it. But my wishes change nothing MOO.

What did DM really mean? For me, this is territory of second guessing that is one step short of too far. I don't know what happened beyond the small amount of detail available re DM's actions and thoughts which in the PCA are shorn of most emotional content (for reasons already touched upon previously). And I don't think what is written about being in frozen shock is a lie or a misleading statement inserted by LE (not suggesting you are saying this, just going through options in response to your opinion).. I read DM's statement simply as her attempt to express/explain her reaction to seeing the stranger. I take it as something she felt she experienced at the time. I have no reason to premise that she was manipulated into expressing herself that way by anyone else. I don't know how DM felt after she saw the stranger, froze for a few seonds as he passed then locked her door. But I believe that's how it happened from her perspective. The second hand hearsay presented in the recent Daily M article doesn't change my views on this anymore than the timing of the 911 call That's MOO. I understand other's may have alternate views.