4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[BeginnerSleuther]

I am always happy to have my errors corrected, but what year is it in your time zone? (LOL!) Here on Pacific Time, June of 2022 was last summer and the internship may have continued into the most recent Fall semester (the term of the murders) at UI.

I don't know how it works in Marketing, but for those getting their teaching certificates, student teaching--the equivalent "internship" for those seeking a teaching credential--is often the last thing one does before graduation.

If KG's internship began last June and continued into September or October (or, frankly, even if it ended in August), that might explain why she wasn't in residence in the Fall and why she moved home after the internship rather than back to 1122.

Summer internships are generally full-time summer internships, IME. They end when the school year starts if they start over the summer. Teaching is a little different because they're student teachers while finishing up undergrad. But I don't know of any other undergraduate majors that do that. How we know this wasn't the case for Kaylee is because she reportedly was living in the house in the fall, per her and MM's Instagram posts. In fact, even after the murder, her bed was still in the house. She hadn't fully moved out. Also IMO, internships in your chosen profession are very common the summer before your senior year and/or the fall of your senior year. Usually, internships don't extend over more than one semester (again IME), because you're getting semester credit for it. It would be rare (IME) for a college to give a student two semesters of credit for the same exact internship. Generally if you have more than one semester interning, you'd do it at a different company.

All above IME (as someone who did a bunch of internships in undergrad) and MOO.

Of course, KG's schedule only matters because it may speak to whether BK targeted her personally and had any way of knowing she would be present on the night of the murders. If you can point out how my thinking errs, please do. In the meantime, I tend to think MM was the target and BK had been spying on her during the Fall semester when she was mostly alone on the upper floor.

(P.S. Sleuther, I know you and I have gone back and forth on a few issues. I hope it is clear that if I seem focused on your posts, it is only out of respect for your opinions. Even when you and I disagree, I am fully aware that you are an intelligent and knowledgeable student of this case!)

Same. No offense taken.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

There's obviously no way for me to definitively and factually dismiss your hunch. At this point it's just as plausible as any other.

But what would it look like if a Moscow Detective was on the stand...And BK's defense attorney asked them "Did you look into the DoorDash Driver who was there minutes before the murders?"

If that detective doesn't have a thorough answer. And his answer is "BK was a much stronger suspect so we ignored the driver and his service" that's almost the textbook definition of reasonable doubt.

BK's defense team will likely (IMO) already argue that LE focused on BK almost immediately and had blinders on for other suspects.

As I've said before (and of course MOO), the investigation from the beginning had to begin with the people close to the victims. From there, it would move outward to co-workers, sorority/fraternity members, classmates, etc. Then there is the possibility that the crime was a stranger assault, which would require looking at people who crossed paths with potentially 6 people, including the survivors. Door Dash and other delivery drivers would be looked at, as would be, I'm sure, the landlord or property manager, a plumber who came to the house, etc. The possible net might have shrunk more quickly because the car was identified. I don't think DD drivers or anyone else was involved in this massacre but I'm glad Moscow police and the other investigator didn't get tunnel vision.

 

[10ofRods]

One little thing about KG (from memory) is that she was new to 1122 King Rd (XK and MM had lived there with the sixth roommate in Spring 2022). All the other girls who lived in the house were members if the same sorority, except KG. KG and MM, always the best of friends, had chosen different housing but in their senior year, KG signed onto the lease at 1122 King Road.

This is from memory and I'll try to search the media thread, but pretty sure KG arrived in August, which is why it's a bit hard to say why she left. Maybe she only needed temp housing, but it is odd that she would take the bigger upstairs room and apparently sign onto the lease, and then leave early.

Just saying and speculating. Again, from memory, she moves into the house in late August and moves out somewhere around the last week of October. So about 2 months. One thought I had is that she might not have realized just how much a "party house" this was (I don't think 1122 King Rd ranks as a World Class Party house - but, perhaps, to some people's way of thinking, it was an unsupervised, non-University regulated party house). Maybe KG didn't like living someplace that garnered LE attention (what, three times?). Maybe she wanted to study.

She was starting to move onto the "adult" phase of her life. That might be reason enough to move out (although we may learn later that she was still paying rent, maybe).

Speculation and info already discussed here. Please correct if I've got something wrong.

MOO.

 

[iamshadow21]

One little thing about KG (from memory) is that she was new to 1122 King Rd (XK and MM had lived there with the sixth roommate in Spring 2022). All the other girls who lived in the house were members if the same sorority, except KG. KG and MM, always the best of friends, had chosen different housing but in their senior year, KG signed onto the lease at 1122 King Road.

This is from memory and I'll try to search the media thread, but pretty sure KG arrived in August, which is why it's a bit hard to say why she left. Maybe she only needed temp housing, but it is odd that she would take the bigger upstairs room and apparently sign onto the lease, and then leave early.

Just saying and speculating. Again, from memory, she moves into the house in late August and moves out somewhere around the last week of October. So about 2 months. One thought I had is that she might not have realized just how much a "party house" this was (I don't think 1122 King Rd ranks as a World Class Party house - but, perhaps, to some people's way of thinking, it was an unsupervised, non-University regulated party house). Maybe KG didn't like living someplace that garnered LE attention (what, three times?). Maybe she wanted to study.

She was starting to move onto the "adult" phase of her life. That might be reason enough to move out (although we may learn later that she was still paying rent, maybe).

Speculation and info already discussed here. Please correct if I've got something wrong.

MOO.

This article talks about the lease:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270073457.html

Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month lease that began on June 5, according to the property management firm that oversees the home.

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Oh, and KG"s "chosen major" was as broad as it could be (General Studies).

Remembering Idaho murder victims: Who was Kaylee Goncalves?

Goncalves, a 21-year-old senior from Rathdrum, Idaho, was majoring in general studies at the College of Letters, Arts and Social Sciences.

www.king5.com

To me, this does not constitute a "chosen profession" or anything like that, and it allows a student to look for various summer opportunities (paid or unpaid internships) in a field that they may only have recently gained interest in. KG went to Austin, TX where she worked for a firm that manages internet solutions (networking and hardware) for mid-sized and smaller companies. KG was not a computer science or information management major. But, she had ambition and somehow got in contact with this company in Austin.

I think we'll learn more about this. When the murders first occurred, I think some of the early warrants were to determine each victims' overall social world, and so of course, this internship (and the public response of that business) pushed this information to the front. We don't know what she actually did (writing ad copy? marketing? meeting up with clients as a rep?) We do know that she felt able to buy a Range Rover.

KG had a LinkedIn account and may actually have known to to use that to her advantage. Or perhaps she knew someone who worked there. Or maybe she applied directly. Or maybe they invented an internship just for her, based on other contacts and networking.

Her program did require a capstone project in the senior year (two semesters of capstone) so that this very general major was narrowed down to a focus (and IIRC, KG's was business-related; I think).

ALL JMO. I saw a list of her coursework somewhere, but can't find it. I'll try and post it if I do find it - I believe it was in a major media outlet. Found the overall plan but i know I saw other information somewhere:

General Studies (B.G.S.) Four-Year Plan

A 4-year plan helps track your credits and the necessary classes you need in order to earn a Bachelor of General Studies.

www.uidaho.edu

As you can see, it's within liberal studies (not business) and letters oriented.

MOO

 

[whiterhino]

One little thing about KG (from memory) is that she was new to 1122 King Rd (XK and MM had lived there with the sixth roommate in Spring 2022). All the other girls who lived in the house were members if the same sorority, except KG. KG and MM, always the best of friends, had chosen different housing but in their senior year, KG signed onto the lease at 1122 King Road.

This is from memory and I'll try to search the media thread, but pretty sure KG arrived in August, which is why it's a bit hard to say why she left. Maybe she only needed temp housing, but it is odd that she would take the bigger upstairs room and apparently sign onto the lease, and then leave early.

Just saying and speculating. Again, from memory, she moves into the house in late August and moves out somewhere around the last week of October. So about 2 months. One thought I had is that she might not have realized just how much a "party house" this was (I don't think 1122 King Rd ranks as a World Class Party house - but, perhaps, to some people's way of thinking, it was an unsupervised, non-University regulated party house). Maybe KG didn't like living someplace that garnered LE attention (what, three times?). Maybe she wanted to study.

She was starting to move onto the "adult" phase of her life. That might be reason enough to move out (although we may learn later that she was still paying rent, maybe).

Speculation and info already discussed here. Please correct if I've got something wrong.

MOO.

According to the link below, during the August 21 2022 traffic stop it was discovered that BKs' phone accessed cell service provided to 1122 King Road.

This must have happened very close to when K moved into the house. Did K have her laptop from Extreme at this time? Is it at all possible that BK tried to remote into Ks' laptop??? Speculation MOO.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

 

[10ofRods]

This article talks about the lease:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270073457.html

Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month lease that began on June 5, according to the property management firm that oversees the home.

MOO

And I'm not sure if we know if KG started paying rent in June or not - there was a long discussion on this, on an earlier thread.

MOO.

 

[whiterhino]

This article talks about the lease:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270073457.html

Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month lease that began on June 5, according to the property management firm that oversees the home.

MOO

IIRC there was mention of another roommate? Was this roommate from a previous year? One that had moved out early? Or sublet their room to K?

Please correct if I'm wrong! I cannot recall correctly and it's been difficult to find some info in search.

 

[iamshadow21]

IIRC there was mention of another roommate? Was this roommate from a previous year? One that had moved out early? Or sublet their room to K?

Please correct if I'm wrong! I cannot recall correctly and it's been difficult to find some info in search.

There was a sixth roommate who moved out before school started.

Moscow police say a sixth person on the lease isn't involved in the Idaho student killings

EDIT: Weren't all six girls in that 'meet the roommates' video where they do impressions of each other that was going around? I never watched it, and I have no idea if it even still exists, but perhaps someone else knows where to look for it?

 

[WingsOverTX]

One little thing about KG (from memory) is that she was new to 1122 King Rd (XK and MM had lived there with the sixth roommate in Spring 2022). All the other girls who lived in the house were members if the same sorority, except KG. KG and MM, always the best of friends, had chosen different housing but in their senior year, KG signed onto the lease at 1122 King Road.

This is from memory and I'll try to search the media thread, but pretty sure KG arrived in August, which is why it's a bit hard to say why she left. Maybe she only needed temp housing, but it is odd that she would take the bigger upstairs room and apparently sign onto the lease, and then leave early.

Just saying and speculating. Again, from memory, she moves into the house in late August and moves out somewhere around the last week of October. So about 2 months. One thought I had is that she might not have realized just how much a "party house" this was (I don't think 1122 King Rd ranks as a World Class Party house - but, perhaps, to some people's way of thinking, it was an unsupervised, non-University regulated party house). Maybe KG didn't like living someplace that garnered LE attention (what, three times?). Maybe she wanted to study.

She was starting to move onto the "adult" phase of her life. That might be reason enough to move out (although we may learn later that she was still paying rent, maybe).

Speculation and info already discussed here. Please correct if I've got something wrong.

MOO.

I hope we learn 1) Why she moved in & 2) Why she moved back home before her last semester ended. She still had furnishings, including a bed, at 1122 King on the night of the murders. I don't think she really had "moved out" - I think she left for a reason but probably nothing nefarious. She was moving far away to Texas soon. Maybe that was a factor? The G's seem like a close family.

Are we sure Fall 2022 was her first time living in this house?

Like you, I am curious. Maybe we will find out her decision to leave the house early is benign but maybe - just maybe - we won't.

JMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

IMO JMO not speculation, just replying with facts from the warrant and my thoughts on why this warrant met the requirements. Someone above asked about the ups warrant.

The warrant was dated 12.2.2022, after LE'd IDd BK, and the warrant is limited to video only from 11.6-11.14, when LE had cause to believe someone driving a white Elantra was paying visits to Moscow imo jmo The warrant does not request information on the drivers at all, so that makes sense b/c no PC to look at the drivers imo jmo. Just the video, and imo jmo, they got the broad scope of 'Moscow ID' instead of just 1122 King area b/c they may have already had information supporting that he stalked her other places than just at home. They weren't able to get a warrant for his phone at that early point, so this UPS video warrant is similar to the cell tower geofence warrants for AT&T and T-Mobile (first ones were limited to 11.13 from 3-5 a.m.) except that this is not related to potentially searching personal/individual records. What I would like to know is how they got a warrant for that amount of time for UPS. LE must have (hopefully) had something JMO IMO to warrant that time period.

edited to correct something stupid

and for anyone interested, this provides a lot of information on warrants, in general, but also the specifics of geofence warrants and issues with them.

Geofence Warrants and the Fourth Amendment - Harvard Law Review

Introduction: If You Build It, They Will Come For months, Zachary McCoy tracked the distance of his bike rides around his neighborhood in Gainesville,...

harvardlawreview.org

 

[U.N. Known]

--

 

[iamshadow21]

There was a sixth roommate who moved out before school started.

Moscow police say a sixth person on the lease isn't involved in the Idaho student killings

EDIT: Weren't all six girls in that 'meet the roommates' video where they do impressions of each other that was going around? I never watched it, and I have no idea if it even still exists, but perhaps someone else knows where to look for it?

This Daily Mail article mentions the video I'm thinking of and has a couple of screenshots from it, one of which has the word 'Kaylee' on it. (I can't tell from the low-res, in-profile image if the girl actually IS Kaylee or is one of the others impersonating her. All of the girls except Xana look very similar to me, especially Kaylee and Maddie.)

Final videos show Idaho students in house where they died

 

[Ghostwheel]

Throwing this out there, so speculation galore based on experience.

My guess is that Kaylee planned on staying the whole year, maybe even if she already had enough credits to graduate. Then the internship came up and it worked out so she was offered a job. From people I know, any of the following might have happened:
She ended up with enough credits to graduate, and decided on early graduation.
She didn't have enough credits to graduate, but requested that her internship/job count as enough credits to graduate (I know three people who did this)
She did not have enough credits to graduate, but requested to graduate with special circumstances (she had a job lined up) ( I know one person who got their degree this way)

In any of the above scenarios, she would not have known she wasn't staying the entire year until the situation arose where she was going to graduate early. So yes, she only stayed a few months, but that likely was not the original plan.

So to me, not odd at all that she only stayed a few months. Having been offered a job, and one far away, there was a lot to make choices on. (Boyfriend, time off before heading off to a job, graduation, money still owed on the lease, what to keep and what to let go, dog-who would get custody of Murphy?, etc)

JMO and thoughts.

 

[Nila Aella]

Warrant MPD forensic lab: January 9, 2023
Seagate 2TB External USB Drive with Serial Number redacted

One of the bulleted requests:

Written/text communications including emails, SMS text messages, MMS messages, and other communications, including but not limited to, third-party applications such as Kik, Whatsapp, Facebook, Instagram

Never heard of Kik so looked it up:

What is the Kik app? Everything you need to know

Kik is among the most popular instant messaging apps in the world, but what is it, how do you use it, and what should you know about it?

www.androidauthority.com

Kik Messenger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Moscow%20Police%20Department%20Forensic%20Lab.pdf

 

[iamshadow21]

Warrant MPD forensic lab: January 9, 2023
Seagate 2TB External USB Drive with Serial Number redacted

One of the bulleted requests:

Written/text communications including emails, SMS text messages, MMS messages, and other communications, including but not limited to, third-party applications such as Kik, Whatsapp, Facebook, Instagram

Never heard of Kik so looked it up:

What is the Kik app? Everything you need to know

Kik is among the most popular instant messaging apps in the world, but what is it, how do you use it, and what should you know about it?

www.androidauthority.com

Kik Messenger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Moscow%20Police%20Department%20Forensic%20Lab.pdf

There's a lot of talk of Kik on the Delphi threads (at least, where I'm up to, which is only two years in). Never used it myself.

 

[Nila Aella]

Completely Sealed warrants: Dates are first order to seal

Latah County Idaho: Nov 16
Apple: Nov 28th
Apple: Nov 28th
Apple: Nov 28th
Coeur d’Alene Police Forensic Lab: Dec 1
Google: Dec 1
Google: Dec 2
Verizon: Dec 2
MPD case: Dec 5
ATT: Jan 6
ATT: Jan 7
MPD case: Jan 10
WSU: Jan 25

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[Kemug]

There's a lot of talk of Kik on the Delphi threads (at least, where I'm up to, which is only two years in). Never used it myself.

Kik was used to communicate by David Eisenhauer and his poor little victim Nicole Lovell .

 

[iamshadow21]

Kik was used to communicate by David Eisenhauer and his poor little victim Nicole Lovell .

I'm not familiar with that case, but I know it's come up in Delphi in the threads I've read so far because one of the girls had an account and because of the nature of the app itself, it potentially makes it very easy for predators to communicate with minors without a digital trail.

We're not dealing with minors here, in this case, but when it all comes down to it, we're all very vulnerable when we don't know who we're talking to and whether they have the intention of causing us violence.

MOO

 

[jepop]

Completely Sealed warrants: Dates are first order to seal

Latah County Idaho: Nov 16
Apple: Nov 28th
Apple: Nov 28th
Apple: Nov 28th
Coeur d’Alene Police Forensic Lab: Dec 1
Google: Dec 1
Google: Dec 2
Verizon: Dec 2
MPD case: Dec 5
ATT: Jan 6
ATT: Jan 7
MPD case: Jan 10
WSU: Jan 25

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Thanks for the great list. The two "MPD case" warrants are completely sealed so only the MPD case number is left in the relevant box. Ditto for "Latah County Idaho", though that may be the last line of an address for whoever was served the warrant. MOO