4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

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Would it clear things up if I said ON the house? As in, on the door frame, the locks, the doorknobs, the railing on the stairs, the wall? My point is just that IF (and I realize it's a big if) his DNA was only on the snap of the sheath, how is that even possible? MOO.
I think I see what you are saying, and agree. If (and as you say its a BIG if) the only DNA he left was on that snap on the Sheath, that is going to be a problem for the prosecution. But I think we will learn that there is other dna he left behind. We will see.
 
I think it's interesting how it used to be generally a cell phone being left on and it's location/pings that were used in criminal cases, but now if the phone is off or goes dark that is used against suspects as well. I guess the solution is to leave it at home powered on, but then they're going to use the fact that there was no physical activity on the phone against the subject.
 
I think it'd be pretty easily possible in the sense that he wore gloves when he went to commit the actual crime so he didn't transfer anything to the physical house. Probably wasn't wearing gloves when he was at home playing with his little sheath and practicing unsheathing his knife. JMO

Then I assume we'll hear about the blood transfer in June. MOO.
 
Would it clear things up if I said ON the house? As in, on the door frame, the locks, the doorknobs, the railing on the stairs, the wall? My point is just that IF (and I realize it's a big if) his DNA was only on the snap of the sheath, how is that even possible? MOO.
Was not stated "only," just tgat was found in the snap.
But if so, by not completely cleaning it.
 
To be fair, I don't think there is anything for the prosecution to acknowledge - yet.

I agree, but if we're going to post about what the defense needs to do (as has been posted a lot), then I think it's entirely fair game to discuss the prosecution too. MOO.


There are always questions about cases before they come to trial and we see all the evidence, and I think it's logical for there to be more gaps than usual with virtually everything under seal. Even without a seal, they're going to keep as much secret as they can because they don't want potential jurors to hear it all before court. Currently, they literally cannot address any questions or gaps even if they were inclined to do so outside of court.

IMO, I think the case is right where one could expect it to be at this point. We have a general idea of where things are heading, and there are questions that definitely won't be answered until the Prosecution puts on their case. Some questions will probably never be answered, because the answer lies within BK's brain and I don't think he's going to tell us what we want to know even if he testifies. MOOooo

I think that's fine, but IMO, this case isn't as open and shut as some believe and I don't think it's wrong to point that out. I think those of us pointing these things out are doing so with good intentions and genuinely just expressing our opinions. I doubt anyone will change their mind until more evidence is revealed. MOO.
 
I agree, but if we're going to post about what the defense needs to do (as has been posted a lot), then I think it's entirely fair game to discuss the prosecution too. MOO.




I think that's fine, but IMO, this case isn't as open and shut as some believe and I don't think it's wrong to point that out. I think those of us pointing these things out are doing so with good intentions and genuinely just expressing our opinions. I doubt anyone will change their mind until more evidence is revealed. MOO.
I agree on all points, except that I don't yet believe I know enough to even make a guess as to how "open and shut" this case is. There have been many "slam dunks" where the suspect was not convicted. These days, I don't assume anyone is going to jail until the jury says so. :) Until the State begins putting on their case, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the case is "strong enough".
 
Would it clear things up if I said ON the house? As in, on the door frame, the locks, the doorknobs, the railing on the stairs, the wall? My point is just that IF (and I realize it's a big if) his DNA was only on the snap of the sheath, how is that even possible? MOO.

Gloves?
 
Jail? He's facing the possibility of being executed. So the stakes are much much higher.

Also, if it comes down to a mistrial by one lone holdout he's not going anywhere. BK will likely spend the next 5 years in jail awaiting a retrial. Accused quadruple murderers (with a mistrial and a retrial he's still the accused) do not get to walk on personal recognizance or home confinement. They'll retry him until they get a conviction or an acquittal. There have been as many as 8 or 9 retrials. Look no further than Curtis Flowers for #5 (or 6, can't recall).

This is barring any crazy rock solid exculpatory piece of evidence (like a confession) coming out of nowhere, of course. Though IMO they'll get it done the first time.
I did not mean to suggest a mistrial. I meat acquittal. I was mixing up the lone holdout on a Guilty Verdict with a Not Guilty Verdict, so yeah, your points make sense on the retrial.

The only reason I mentioned jail instead of the death penalty is that the DP hasn't been officially declared (w/out his plea). I was trying to avoid being dramatic. That's what too little sleep will do for ya.
 

Already addressed, but this was my initial thought too. But someone else said in this thread that they don't believe the house was bloody, just the rooms in which the murders occurred. So my point is, if the house wasn't bloody, then his clean hands must have left fingerprints all over the place. And if they didn't and we want to assume he wore gloves, then I would assume the gloves were wiped clean and/or he changed gloves to leave if we really think he didn't leave blood places other than the site of the murders. MOO.
 
I wasn't talking about the sheath. I was talking about the rest of the house.
I think the assumption is that BK's DNA was not put on the sheath during the crime, but at an earlier time.

It appears that the murderer, whether BK or someone else (I assume it's BK but just covering all theories here) wore gloves and managed to not leave any DNA at the scene, except what was already on the sheath. MOO
 
If anyone is aware of a murder case in which the accused, who was not acquainted with the victim, was found not guilty despite their DNA being found on/part of the suspected murder weapon, please share a link.

How about under the fingernails of the victim?



And then there's this:
"Until recently, this type of DNA has been regarded as incontrovertible proof of direct contact. But a growing number of studies show that DNA does not always stay put. For example, a person who merely carried a cloth that had been wiped across someone else's neck could then transfer that person's DNA onto an object he or she never touched, according to a study published earlier this year in the International Journal of Legal Medicine. Similarly, Cynthia M. Cale, a master's candidate in human biology at the University of Indianapolis, recently reported in the Journal of Forensic Sciences that a person who uses a steak knife after shaking hands with another person transfers that person's DNA onto the handle. In fact, in a fifth of the samples she collected, the person identified as the main contributor of DNA never touched the knife. Cale and her colleagues are among several groups now working to establish how easily and how quickly cells can be transferred—and how long they persist. “What we get is what we get,” Cale says, “but it's how that profile is used and presented that we need to be cautious about.”


The purpose of posting these isn't to suggest BK is innocent, but to suggest that the DNA evidence (that we know about), on its own, is not a slam dunk case, and much of the other evidence has holes too.

MOO.
 
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How about under the fingernails of the victim?



And then there's this:
"Until recently, this type of DNA has been regarded as incontrovertible proof of direct contact. But a growing number of studies show that DNA does not always stay put. For example, a person who merely carried a cloth that had been wiped across someone else's neck could then transfer that person's DNA onto an object he or she never touched, according to a study published earlier this year in the International Journal of Legal Medicine. Similarly, Cynthia M. Cale, a master's candidate in human biology at the University of Indianapolis, recently reported in the Journal of Forensic Sciences that a person who uses a steak knife after shaking hands with another person transfers that person's DNA onto the handle. In fact, in a fifth of the samples she collected, the person identified as the main contributor of DNA never touched the knife. Cale and her colleagues are among several groups now working to establish how easily and how quickly cells can be transferred—and how long they persist. “What we get is what we get,” Cale says, “but it's how that profile is used and presented that we need to be cautious about.”


The purpose of posting these isn't to suggest BK is innocent, but to suggest that the DNA evidence (that we know about), on its own, is not a slam dunk case, and much of the other evidence has holes too.

MOO.

I don't think it's necessarily a slam dunk either, but I also know how the average juror's eyes probably light up at the mention of DNA due to conditioning from crime shows (whether fictional or non fictional)
 
I think the assumption is that BK's DNA was not put on the sheath during the crime, but at an earlier time.

It appears that the murderer, whether BK or someone else (I assume it's BK but just covering all theories here) wore gloves and managed to not leave any DNA at the scene, except what was already on the sheath. MOO

So then there'd be blood from the glove OR he took the time to change his gloves, which we'd have to factor into the 15 minutes, along with the missing footprints. It has to be one or the other, IMO.
 
What the hell do you mean?

I'm concerned that innocent people will die a brutal, backwards and inhumane death. I'm frightened that governments have the legal power to do such things.

There will always be a number of wrongly convicted among the condemned.

I agree with you but what makes me wonder is the greater
I'm sure the police know from experience where to check for DNA and other evidence based on what they think happened, but I have often wondered just how thoroughly it's possible to search. I know they vacuum, looking for hair, etc., and they swab a lot of places, but I don't know likely it is that a DNA deposit could be missed. For example, how many swabs does it take to feel you probably didn't miss a DNA deposit on a door knob? Guess I know what I'll be doing at lunch today.

He probably would have had to was
I think it's interesting how it used to be generally a cell phone being left on and it's location/pings that were used in criminal cases, but now if the phone is off or goes dark that is used against suspects as well. I guess the solution is to leave it at home powered on, but then they're going to use the fact that there was no physical activity on the phone against the subject.

yeh, that's the smart way to do it. leave it at home.
 
It doesn't, but it certainly warrants closer inspection, which is how where we got where we are, with a suspect in custody and being readied to stand trial. No single piece of evidence stands alone, it's about the totality of the case, the potentially hundreds of pieces of evidence they have gathered that come together to build a case.

And, to turn it the other way up, if his car had been seen driving in the area at the time of the killings and it hadn't been investigated, wouldn't that be worrying? Wouldn't it be best for LE to have scrutinised his every move on that evening just to make sure? Even if he was innocently in the area, with nothing to do with the murders?

MOO, they have been over so many other people who have all been ruled out. They were left with the person who's been arrested, who just got stronger as a potential perpetrator the more they looked at his life and his movements.

It isn't about the car or the phone or the witness description or the sheath with his DNA on it, it's about EVERYTHING. The things we've seen the PCA, and all the things we haven't seen yet, most of which we won't see until trial. None of us is going to fully understand this case until then, because we've only got a handful of pieces from a thousand piece puzzle. LE and forensic scientists are slowly assembling the rest, and eventually, the prosecution is going to show us the whole picture.

MOO

Which is why there may not even be a trial. I suspect (maybe hope) that the evidence is indefensible... and that the defense will ask for a plea agreement to spare a trial and the families seeing and reliving this nightmare.
 
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