4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[deugirtni]

Question for anyone: Do we know exactly what SG meant by BK's phone trying to connect to the King Road's network? Was it open, without a password?

I'm often alerted to open wifi networks, but I've never connected to one unless I chose to do so and/or signed in previously and turned on auto-connect.

Would he even have that information without knowing BK's phone number? Even if he somehow had the phone number, are all of the network attempts available? If the Intenet company keeps track, would that be available without a warrant?

Just wondering how BK's phone would've been able to 'try to connect' to the murder house's network, if BK's phone was in airplane mode or turned off, as LE has suggested it was?

 

[deugirtni]

Question for anyone: Do we know exactly what SG meant by BK's phone trying to connect to the King Road's network? Was it open, without a password?

I'm often alerted to open wifi networks, but I've never connected to one unless I chose to do so and/or signed in previously and turned on auto-connect.

Would he even have that information without knowing BK's phone number? Even if he somehow had the phone number, are all of the network attempts available? If the Intenet company keeps track, would that be available without a warrant?

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but when I look at the register of users logged in to my own network, the numbers do not appear as 'phone numbers'.. they appear as mac IDs, which, even if the G family were to have known what BK's phone number was, they surely wouldn't have known what his phone's Mac ID was. imo.

 

[Kemug]

They may need to provide the jury with a reasonable explanation for the inexplicable events. What are the reasons BK was willing risk everything he'd worked towards in order to conduct such an unimaginable assault by slaying these four wonderful individuals with an edged weapon making fierce wounds that tore through Kaylee's lungs and liver (more on that later), nearly severed Xana's fingers and allowed blood to drip down the exterior wall of the 1122 House.

Why was BK willing to risk everything he'd worked towards? Well, maybe a career in criminal justice was only what he seemed to be working towards. Maybe murdering people had been his goal in life for a long time, and his criminal justice studies were just a means to that end.

 

[Gemmie]

Why was BK willing to risk everything he'd worked towards? Well, maybe a career in criminal justice was only what he seemed to be working towards. Maybe murdering people had been his goal in life for a long time, and his criminal justice studies were just a means to that end.

Why does anyone risk everything? Case and point... Alex Murdaugh was an attorney.

 

[deugirtni]

I've wondered if he did, yes. Otherwise, I can't explain the footprint. Do we think when the girls called their friends, they came and cleaned? I doubt it. So why else was the print not noticeable? MOO.

Though with the friends, that also brings up a good point. Were their footprints cleared? IOW, were their shoes looked at to insure this print was unaccounted for and didn't belong to one of the friends?

What about the police and etc. who had walked through presumably various areas of the crimescenes.. were they all wearing booties? Does blood soak through those booties? Were all footwear from those people compared against the latent shoeprint which couldn't be seen until they tested it for blood and then put that other stuff on it? If someone cleaned up bloody shoeprints, wouldn't the diamond pattern of the soles also be wiped away, or at least blurred together?

 

[deugirtni]

If BK went back to the house that morning, then wouldn't he have retrieved the sheath?

and would he REALLY have been THAT ridiculous?? At 9am, when many are already awake, up and about, neighbours, to see his vehicle, neighbours to see an open door.. etc etc?

 

[deugirtni]

...
Interesting and good observation, but do we know for sure that his phone didn't ping during that time frame?
...

RSBM
Good point. It has been said many times on this thread that LE includes the bare minimum of info to obtain a search warrant or prove PC, whatever... so it's very possible his phone continued to access those same cell towers after the murders, similar to its access prior to the murders, but LE left out those details as they weren't relevant to LE's goals?

 

[Boxer]

Just wondering how BK's phone would've been able to 'try to connect' to the murder house's network, if BK's phone was in airplane mode or turned off, as LE has suggested it was?

Not on that 11/13 trip to the house, a previous time.

 

[deugirtni]

And judging by the early descriptions of the crime scene being 'the worst' that investigators had ever seen...

There were likely other footprints.

Wouldn't it have been important to also list a visibly bloody shoeprint which detailed the entire shoe, rather than a partial print, for the purpose of showing shoe size? Sure, it's important to show the visitor may have indeed been x close to DM's bedroom door, but what about showing shoe size, and possibly also that a bit earlier the killer's soles were indeed covered in blood?

 

[al66pine]

"Spare the Family." Oh, Really?

Which is why there may not even be a trial. I suspect (maybe hope) that the evidence is indefensible... and that the defense will ask for a plea agreement to spare a trial and the families seeing and reliving this nightmare.

snipping for focus @Justice101 It's possible; We'll see.

I've seen/heard def't's or their atty's make "sparing-the-family~the-heartache- or fam-reliving-the-nightmare" claims many times.

Cynical me wonders--- if def't's motivating force was to "spare the family" and if def't is so altruistic, sensitive, and caring, why did he wait for a lower offense, lesser sentence, or both? Hmmm.
imo

And furthermore, why commit the crime(s) at all?

(edited for clarity)

 

[Boxer]

Wouldn't it have been important to also list a visibly bloody shoeprint which detailed the entire shoe, rather than a partial print, for the purpose of showing shoe size? Sure, it's important to show the visitor may have indeed been x close to DM's bedroom door, but what about showing shoe size, and possibly also that a bit earlier the killer's soles were indeed covered in blood?

The print was included to corroborate the witness account of seeing a man, dressed in black, walk toward the kitchen.

 

[10ofRods]

Just wondering how BK's phone would've been able to 'try to connect' to the murder house's network, if BK's phone was in airplane mode or turned off, as LE has suggested it was?

I thought that his phone pinged their router on one of the other occasions (one of the 12 other times he was noted to be near 1122 King Road). I'm going entirely from memory though. I don't know his phone brand, but with both Apple and Android, if a person has enabled bluetooth while in airplane mode (say, so that their apple watch will still function or to wear earbuds), then when airplane mode is enabled the next time, bluetooth should stay on.

It's possible the phone tried to connect to a bluetooth device (which itself could have been connected to the router). Completely out of my bailiwick, but I do know that bluetooth can still work on airplane mode.

Wouldn't it have been important to also list a visibly bloody shoeprint which detailed the entire shoe, rather than a partial print, for the purpose of showing shoe size? Sure, it's important to show the visitor may have indeed been x close to DM's bedroom door, but what about showing shoe size, and possibly also that a bit earlier the killer's soles were indeed covered in blood?

I think not. If in fact it turned out that BK was not the killer OR that there was some crazy whackadoo who wanted to claim that he or she was the real murdered, LE and DA simply do not want to give information about the path through the house. This is common to all criminal trials I've watched or been involved in. The defense will get the information, it's under lock and key, there's a reason for the gag order that goes beyond just jury selection.

With a latent print, it's common that the entire foot is not present in the print. Almost no one stomps with their foot such that a liquid would be equally distributed throughout the sole of the shoe. Often, the arch of the foot is missing in the imprint (which is valuable forensic info). If a person is running lightly (to be quiet) they will not always put their heel down (especially if they are turning). So partial prints are extremely common. A person wearing something like a knee brace may be forced to use their foot differently and give a fuller print, but you can experiment with this at home if you're so inclined (we do it in teaching labs, using washable paint from the education store).

Why would you assume both shoes were covered in blood? The fact that the print goes latent just a few meters from Xana's room tells me that not much blood was on that one shoe. I think he tried hard not to step in any blood, but because Xana was not in bed, as expected, he did anyway - but not much.

Shoe size isn't all that helpful to give out to the public. It's likely a common shoe size, from an average sized man. That does not help the public identify the person and it doesn't aid the Judge in deciding that it is Kohberger rather than someone else. It does back up what DM said, and that was the point. Indeed, since Kohberger was not yet in custody, shoe size was irrelevant - the judge needs reasons to arrest a specific individual (whose shoe size is unknown at the time).

We'll likely find out that, now that they can measure BK's foot in custody and also have his other shoes, what the shoe size was. If he were really smart, he'd have bought a special pair of shoes for his kill kit in a different size than what he usually wears (tighter would make sense, like approach shoes are supposed to be).

All IMO, but based on years of teaching forensic anthropology.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I just went back and looked at a floorplan of the house.

I intended to look at how close to DM's door the killer would have passed on his way out (when she saw him), because we see the Amido black footprint as described by LE as being "immediately outside" her door. I was pretty sure his exit route wouldn't be so close to her door that I would call it "immediately outside", but of course that's subjective.

Anyway, while I was looking at the floorplan, I noticed something else.

All along I had been picturing that the stairs near DM's door were coming up from the lower floor, but now I see that they are actually the stairs between the 2nd and 3rd floor.

So this means that when the killer descended from the third floor after killing K and M, and from there heading into X's room (possibly only after realizing that someone was awake and knew he was there), THAT's when he would pass directly outside DM's door.

Could the footprint possibly have been left then, rather than on the way out?

I still think that the route from Xana's room, to exit via the kitchen slider, wouldn't bring him immediately outside DM's door but rather several feet away.

I guess it all depends on what LE meant by "immediately outside" the door. But he for sure passed "immediately" outside her door earlier, which I hadn't registered until now and didn't recall anyone else mentioning.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Yes, I have noticed this with another "Slam Dunk" case I have been following. I guess that the defense is looking for any possible flaws to gain a dismissal. Or rather "Hail Mary" defense.

MOO no case going to trial is ever slam dunk, and MOO no competent prosecutor would allow themselves to think that way.

 

[deugirtni]

The print was included to corroborate the witness account of seeing a man, dressed in black, walk toward the kitchen.

Yes exactly, and why not also get a full shoeprint to shoe the killer's shoe size, the fact that its sole had previously been covered in blood, and perhaps to see wear indicating gait patterns?

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

But how do four 20-somethings who don't seem to be from wealthy backgrounds have so much money in college that they even need this many financial institutions? As SGH said, it was like 8 or 9 different financial institutions counting the credit unions. I don't believe it's student loans (certainly not federal student loans, and they'd have no reason to get private loans). I get what you're saying about people knowing each other and having the same bank, but 8-9 different banks? And college aged kids, all of whom need that many?

This whole case is very weird.

MOO.

I agree with you! I did not invent the equations for calculating the possible combinations/permutations of not just 4 but 7-9 people (only the 4 victims were named, other names were redacted) but I did do the math using an online calculator, and using the top 50 banks in Idaho (so credit unions weren't even in that top 50), and the possible number of combinations was astronomical - less likely x 2 for winning the lottery (see my earlier post for numbers). imo jmo ime it's quite unlikely that many people would have all those overlapping accounts. could be, but raises valid questions.

The other point to consider is that while LE might have had an easier time requesting information on the 4 victims, there were 3-5 other parties included. That means LE had probable cause for that warrant and the sealed affidavit to dig into the other parties' financial information with all those institutions. That means something more than curiosity. Imo jmo that should also be factored in when weighing the importance of the accounts. this is all imo jmo ime.

 

[Boxer]

I just went back and looked at a floorplan of the house.

I intended to look at how close to DM's door the killer would have passed on his way out (when she saw him), because we see the Amido black footprint as described by LE as being "immediately outside" her door. I was pretty sure his exit route wouldn't be so close to her door that I would call it "immediately outside", but of course that's subjective.

Anyway, while I was looking at the floorplan, I noticed something else.

All along I had been picturing that the stairs near DM's door were coming up from the lower floor, but now I see that they are actually the stairs between the 2nd and 3rd floor.

So this means that when the killer descended from the third floor after killing K and M, and from there heading into X's room (possibly only after realizing that someone was awake and knew he was there), THAT's when he would pass directly outside DM's door.

Could the footprint possibly have been left then, rather than on the way out?

I still think that the route from Xana's room, to exit via the kitchen slider, wouldn't bring him immediately outside DM's door but rather several feet away.

I guess it all depends on what LE meant by "immediately outside" the door. But he for sure passed "immediately" outside her door earlier, which I hadn't registered until now and didn't recall anyone else mentioning.

MOO

IIRC the direction of the print corroborated her statement that she saw a man waliing toward the kitchen.

 

[Boxer]

Yes exactly, and why not also get a full shoeprint to shoe the killer's shoe size, the fact that its sole had previously been covered in blood, and perhaps to see wear indicating gait patterns?

MOO They will analyze the print for all possibble information, but citing the print in the PCA is to corroborate the witness.

 

[10ofRods]

Not on that 11/13 trip to the house, a previous time.

Good for you for remembering! That's what I remembered too (on one of the 12 trips). That would have been an automatic attempt by his phone in regular mode to do a handshake with the router (which stored the information). Our phones do not know until they attempt to shake hands with the router whether that network is open to them or not. Phones constantly ping various things (there's a term for the radius of the router, but now I've forgotten it).

What about the police and etc. who had walked through presumably various areas of the crimescenes.. were they all wearing booties? Does blood soak through those booties? Were all footwear from those people compared against the latent shoeprint which couldn't be seen until they tested it for blood and then put that other stuff on it? If someone cleaned up bloody shoeprints, wouldn't the diamond pattern of the soles also be wiped away, or at least blurred together?

Unless Moscow PD are completely incompetent, which I believe them NOT to be, their forensic team wore booties. Yes, blood soaks through the booties - if you step in it, but trained forensic people (even beginners) know not to do that. Blood would have been drying for quite some time, except in places where it had pooled, which would be obvious.

Of course everyone has to list their footwear (where I work, forensics teams all wear the same regulation shoe by regulation within the Sheriff's department).

No one had cleaned the site (and still haven't; the cleaning was stopped by the defense and the house is now going to be demolished). LE never cleans crime scenes. Or it's very rare - they do not do it anywhere I've ever worked or read about.

Amido black makes biologic proteins visible. The sole of the shoe stamped in blood on the floor and dried pretty quickly (and was invisible to the naked eye and even to luminol). I assume the reason they brought in Amido black is that they had luminol prints and also visible prints, but those prints got fainter and fainter with each step - that's just physics. They knew he didn't levitate, so they got Amido black to see what else they could pick up.

IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

This has me wondering as well...but even more so why do they all have credit card readers (Square/Block) IMO

Im not saying they were up to anything nefarious maybe just the opposite but either way IMO it's a valid question.

I find it really interesting, too, especially after reviewing the details of all Block/Square does. imo jmo the fact that it was for the 4 victims and 3 additional parties makes it even more interesting because LE had to have probable cause so jmo imo interesting. This is one of the issues I find most compelling.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Block.pdf

Block, Inc. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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