4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

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ChatteringBirds

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This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”


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Media Thread/No Discussion

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

 
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ADMIN REMINDER:

It is okay for members to discuss Visual Snow Syndrome because it was referenced by BK himself in his social media. Also, iirc, a BK family member had referred to him having or possibly having OCD. Those two conditions may be discussed because they are sourced to the accused himself and to his family members.

What members can not discuss are other random mental health conditions beyond those specified above. None of us is in a position to diagnose the mental health of a person we have never met. Introducing various and sundry, potential diagnoses only serves to derail the thread with opinions, debate, unrelated personal anecdotes, etc that may end up not being remotely related to this case.

Thank you.
 
RBBM: I don't remember reading that anywhere in the PCA or any court documents or in any LE released statements. As far as I know, we don't have a date on when investigators internally expanded the years from 2011-2013, to 2011- 2016. MOO

However, we do know from the PCA that LE were looking at white elantras in Pullman in late Nov and on Nov 29th did a computerised rego check of white elantras that went beyond 2013 because it was on that day that BK's 2015 elantra was discovered on the WSU system. Also on that day, very early am hours WSU officer on street were looking for elantras that included years beyond 2013 because on that day BK's car was identified in Steptoe appartment complex and called in to be checked. MOO but all of that is in the PCA - link at beginning of thread.
Well actually they have "A" white Elantra in the area, the same one that they changed the year of only after finding out BCK's was a 2015.

As far as the cell tower data, that bit of "evidence" (or lack of) has been discussed ad nauseam in MSM and on this site showing numerous problems with attempting to prove he was actually "close to the residence" at those times...
PCA:
On November 25, 2023 MPD asked area law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout for white Hyundai Elantras in the area. On November 29, 2022, at approximately 1228 a.m., Washington State University (WSU) Police Officer Daniel Tiengo, quericd white Elantras registered at WSU. As a result of that query he located a 20I5 white Elartra with a Pennsylvania license plate LFZ-86{9.

Moscow PD put out the 2011-2013 photos on 12/7/2022


PCA
1684874982614.png

As far as I can tell: on Nov 25 LE asked other agencies to be on the lookout for all elantras. On Nov 29 they found a 2015 at WSU. MPD put out the photos of the 2011-2013 model on Dec 7th. It does not say which observations of suspect vehicle 1 caused the examiner to say 2011-2013. It also doesn't say which observations of suspect vehicle 1 caused a change to expand the models, nor when the reexamination took place.

IMO these details are important.

JMO
 
Thank you once again! These are the kinds of records I love to see - and it shows that the hearings held in Judge's court do have a public record. Not everything is sealed.

But, we cannot know the content of Mr Gray's motion at this time. Or what the motion to compel is trying to compel. Sigh. I don't even know who Gray and Carone are, so if anyone knows, I'd appreciate if you shared.

IMO.
Carone is on the motion to reconsider the gag order:


Gray motioned to appeal amend or clarify gag order: SG family attorney:


 
But the defendant 95% of the time pleads guilty to some lesser offense in the plea deal. It would be impossible to get a plea deal without pleading guilty to something.

If BK pleads I believe it will end up being guilty to murder in exchange for dropping the DP.

The State will use the DP as leverage. 2 Cents
He has already pled not guilty. I doubt the Defense is even remotely concerned about the death penalty. Even if convicted and so sentenced he will never be executed, we all know that.
 
He has already pled not guilty. I doubt the Defense is even remotely concerned about the death penalty. Even if convicted and so sentenced he will never be executed, we all know that.
I think the defense is very concerned about the DP.

One of the main jobs of a DP attorney is to keep their client off off death row.

Whether the DP is carried out or not, it is terrible to have to go sit on death row for the rest of your life. It is not the same as being sentenced to LWOP where you have some interaction with general population.

2 Cents
 
Thank you once again! These are the kinds of records I love to see - and it shows that the hearings held in Judge's court do have a public record. Not everything is sealed.

But, we cannot know the content of Mr Gray's motion at this time. Or what the motion to compel is trying to compel. Sigh. I don't even know who Gray and Carone are, so if anyone knows, I'd appreciate if you shared.

IMO.
All of Gray's motions are public as well as who he represents. The motions to compel are public record, only what they are specifically seeking is not public, although some of it is addressed in general terms.
 
I think the defense is very concerned about the DP.

One of the main jobs of a DP attorney is to keep their client off off death row.

Whether the DP is carried out or not, it is terrible to have to go sit on death row for the rest of your life. It is not the same as being sentenced to LWOP where you have some interaction with general population.

2 Cents
He has very good Defense attorneys that happen to be death penalty qualified. They are not there to just solely keep him off death row. Those attorneys know that a DP is unlikely.
 
Thank you once again! These are the kinds of records I love to see - and it shows that the hearings held in Judge's court do have a public record. Not everything is sealed.

But, we cannot know the content of Mr Gray's motion at this time. Or what the motion to compel is trying to compel. Sigh. I don't even know who Gray and Carone are, so if anyone knows, I'd appreciate if you shared.

IMO.
Motion to compel


States response


Third supp request for discovery


States response

 
PCA:
On November 25, 2023 MPD asked area law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout for white Hyundai Elantras in the area. On November 29, 2022, at approximately 1228 a.m., Washington State University (WSU) Police Officer Daniel Tiengo, quericd white Elantras registered at WSU. As a result of that query he located a 20I5 white Elartra with a Pennsylvania license plate LFZ-86{9.

Moscow PD put out the 2011-2013 photos on 12/7/2022


PCA
View attachment 424134

As far as I can tell: on Nov 25 LE asked other agencies to be on the lookout for all elantras. On Nov 29 they found a 2015 at WSU. MPD put out the photos of the 2011-2013 model on Dec 7th. It does not say which observations of suspect vehicle 1 caused the examiner to say 2011-2013. It also doesn't say which observations of suspect vehicle 1 caused a change to expand the models, nor when the reexamination took place.

IMO these details are important.

JMO
I think, suspect vehicle 1 years were expanded internally before Nov 29th. This is based on LE looking for 2013 + elantras at least on that date. A separate matter to the public announcement which was never expanded to the 2016 year. The OP stated this:

"Well actually they have "A" white Elantra in the area, the same one that they changed the year of only after finding out BCK's was a 2015."

Whilst I don't think we have a date for when the internal BOLO was expanded to 2016, we know that on Nov 29th LE were calling in 2013 + Elantras and therefore apparently not ignoring 2013 + elantras when doing street/car park and car lot searches, as well as computerised searches of institutions such as WSU.

MOO
 
He has very good Defense attorneys that happen to be death penalty qualified. They are not there to just solely keep him off death row. Those attorneys know that a DP is unlikely.
What are your reasons for why the State isn't going to charge him with the DP?

There are plenty of Aggravating Factors.

Because if they charge him with it there is no guarantee he will not get the DP if he goes to trial and is found guilty.

This is when his DP attorneys will want to have him take a plea of guilty to get the DP dropped. If he goes to trial under the DP I believe he will be convicted and then I believe there is a high chance the jury will give him the DP in the Penalty Phase trial.

4 people brutally killed and they suffered, I do not see any mercy shown for this defendant if he is found guilty by a jury.


For victims' families and these inmates, waiting decades to see their cases resolved takes its toll. Some experts say 20 to 40 years on death row at the literal expense of the state raises questions of fair treatment of prisoners.
 
Yes. That's a big problem, today. There are so many people who get off on being flatly contrarian about things, who will always argue against the majority, even if the facts are on the majority's side.

I'm all for critical thinking but it also has to be REASONABLE thinking. I can take just about any case and retroactively come up with a reason as to why the things presented at trial, to get the conviction, could actually mean something else. When you take things apart, on an individual basis, and do not consider anything but that one piece of evidence - as if other evidence does not exist - it is easier to discount it piecemeal. But, that's why cases have to be built. That is why we have to consider the totality of the evidence.
Could you explain to us how the DNA found will be presented under the Rules of Evidence and why the Defense objections are just contrarian? Keep in mind that the existence of or "totality of the evidence" in regards to other evidence will be irrelevant in the court determining the admissibility of expert testimony regarding any such DNA evidence sought be used.
 
What are your reasons for why the State isn't going to charge him with the DP?

Because if they charge him with it there is no guarantee he will not get the DP if he goes to trial and is found guilty.

This is when his DP attorneys will want to have him take a plea of guilty to get the DP dropped. If he goes to trial under the DP I believe he will be convicted and then I believe there is a high chance the jury will give him the DP in the Penalty Phase trial.

4 people brutally killed and they suffered, I do not see any mercy shown for this defendant if he is found guilty by a jury.


For victims' families and these inmates, waiting decades to see their cases resolved takes its toll. Some experts say 20 to 40 years on death row at the literal expense of the state raises questions of fair treatment of prisoners.
I agree, I doubt the jury will have any mercy. Invading homes and slaughtering human beings is one incredibly heinous crime. The Governor just signed this into law, effective July 1st:

 
Not to change the subject, but does anyone remember what day the HVAC van was at the crime scene?
I'm replying to my own post because I found out that AB and NN reported it on Dec 7th. We did speculate a little on it, but I was thinking...is there a chance that LE transported the 'confidential witness(es)' in that van to the scene for reenactment?

The Kelsey Berreth case had the State's star witness disguised as a FBI agent to walk around that crime scene and point out the areas of blood she cleaned.

It's always seemed strange that a HVAC van was located at the scene.

MOO

Why was HVAC contractor at the crime scene?
 
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I think, suspect vehicle 1 years were expanded internally before Nov 29th. This is based on LE looking for 2013 + elantras at least on that date. A separate matter to the public announcement which was never expanded to the 2016 year. The OP stated this:

"Well actually they have "A" white Elantra in the area, the same one that they changed the year of only after finding out BCK's was a 2015."

Whilst I don't think we have a date for when the internal BOLO was expanded to 2016, we know that on Nov 29th LE were calling in 2013 + Elantras and therefore apparently not ignoring 2013 + elantras when doing street/car park and car lot searches, as well as computerised searches of institutions such as WSU.

MOO
Until we know more: IMO LE was looking at all elantras until they were notified by the examiner that it was a 2011-2013. They did have to collect all the video prior to the examiner reviewing it all. And maybe they continued sending video as more was discovered, which might have expanded the years at some point. JMO
 
The implementation of an Alford plea abandons many forms and causes of appeal, including the right to appeal the process or outcome of any proceeding that occurred prior to the entry of the plea: in this case, that would mean the entirety of the GJ proceeding as well as the legality and resultant of all the warrants preceding yesterday....That MOO with a fair amount of research into the advantages and disadvantages.

The docket yesterday included the Defense's motion to forward the record of the GJ proceedings: that followed the arraignment yesterday.

Also the Defense's motions concerning additional discovery were on the docket yesterday following the arraignment; and there have been at least (3) rounds of those already.

The defense counsel could argue very simply: BK was not equipped to enter a plea yesterday, the evidences and records required to make a plea decision were not received prior to the arraignment, so he (his counsel) stood silent. Whether that is a direct consequence of the state and delivery status of the evidence and records; or its passive leverage to reinforce the need for immediate delivery of those items is simply portion of the tactical give and take of the legal process. IMHO its simply courtroom tactics with a little consequence of expedience overwhelming logistics; but with no gloss or DD from Hollywood or MSM.

I agree with MassGuy up there somewhere: At trial, I predict a mountain of data and evidence; a phalanx of experts presenting demonstrations, summaries and opinions; an extended closing argument by the prosecution. A long long trial with a lot of detail and bricks in the wall. IMO with a nod to MassGuy.

And October 2? LMAO Not a chance. 3:1 odds to anyone interested.....
 
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