4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661920416523509761

 

[Ksfarmer8]

Exactly. Or someone might have added some other BK-unfriendly detail to a tip. Most tiplines allow anonymity (as they should).

IMO.

Agree! There is the probability the issue with DS was considered as she went missing at approximately the same time BK bought the KABAR. Pure speculation but maybe he wanted to try it out or maybe needed a better knife!! JMO

 

[schooling]

Utter nonsense.
Preposterous, that just because a defense lawyer is doing their job and having their own DNA experts test the sheath DNA, that the prosecution would simply toss out this evidence.

Not you, your fine, your questions are good, no negative reflection on you whatsoever.

First of all, the Probable Cause Affidavit (PCA) is not going to be changed, it was used to obtain Warrants to make Kohberger's arrest and for searches, which have now been completed. The PCA has served it's purpose and now the prosecution and defense are gathering the actual evidence such as
the phone records, the videos, the LE investigative reports and interviews, etc....

Secondly, the PCA states very clearly that the PCA is not using the DNA evidence in securing the Warrants. The reason is - just in case the judge finds the DNA inadmissible. This way the PCA will not have been secured on inadmissible evidence.

We do not even know if the DNA will be admissible and this is up to the judge.

The way it works is the defense would file a Motion to Suppress Evidence. This is a request by the Defense asking the judge to disallow or ‘throw out’ specific evidence well in advance of trial, in this Case, the DNA.

Then the Prosecution would file their Opposition Motion to counter the Defense Motion to Suppress. The judge is the one who makes the ruling on whether or not to grant or deny the Defense's Motion to Suppress the DNA evidence.

None of this has even happened.

2 Cents

This ^^^^

AND people keep conflating the male sample pulled from the sheath by a LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT lab and the familial sample purportedly pulled using the help of a 3rd party out of state lab.

The former is literally in the PCA and part of a legal filing. The latter is still pure speculation and all reports point to it being done after no hit in CODIS. Which would lead one to assume that the local sample was pulled FIRST, prior to the sheath reportedly left the state. If you believe one part of this reporting you have to accept all of it.

IMO Those hoping for some sort of chain of custody issue or out of state contamination resulting in all DNA being tossed are going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

View attachment 424724
From: Moscow murder suspect Bryan Kohberger waives extradition to Idaho

Also:

Suspect in Idaho quadruple murder arrested in Monroe County

Bryan C. Kohberger, the suspect in the murder of four college students in Moscow, Idaho, has been arrested in Monroe County.

monroecountyda.com

View attachment 424728

Don't know what to say. I posted the Constitutional meaning as interpreted by the government. Guess we can choose which to believe. IMO, it doesn't make sense to call someone who hasn't been charged a fugitive from justice as opposed to someone on vacation.

MOO.

 

[schooling]

Whether PR on FB was BK, we don't know right now, I'm sure the FBI does though, but the person running that profile sure was creepy. Acted like an insider.

One Reddit account was indeed linked to BK and a research quiz for a class assignment.
I have no idea about any PAPA RODGERS account on Reddit though.

<modsnip: not an approved source>

The 'research quiz' account was BK. It literally had his name on the account. It was created and posted before the murders. He wasn't hiding that fact.

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger's haunting Reddit crime survey

Bryan Kohberger is in custody awaiting extradition from Pennsylvania to Idaho. He was arrested in the Poconos in the early hours of Friday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Papa Rodgers did not have a Reddit account. At least not one with any notoriety. I'm going to assume since DailyMail reported on this, that it's OK for me to post this....but THIS is the Reddit account that people linked to BK because of creepy posts. That one too has been debunked over and over again.

Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

Former FBI investigator Jennifer Coffindaffer suggested that suspect Bryan Kohberger joined social media discussion groups about the Idaho murders.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This thing has become so detached from the facts that it's become mythical now. Retold with added flourish each and every time The FBI agent that's always on Twitter hasn't helped either.

I repeated a lot of the speculation I posted here, on Reddit in a more narrative form. I too was accused of being BK by 3 different users in a thread via comments and via direct messages. I can assure you that I'm not BK. IMO The reason those two accounts stood out to everyone is that they used the same cadence and posting style as the person who posed as Qanon. Using short form and disguising statements and theories as questions.

 

[10ofRods]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661920416523509761

Ah. This explains a lot. The GJ met for an update and, basically, to have a record that they had looked at everything. I am not familiar with GJ's playing this role, but you really helped me understand it.

imo.

 

[Chloegirl]

Ah. This explains a lot. The GJ met for an update and, basically, to have a record that they had looked at everything. I am not familiar with GJ's playing this role, but you really helped me understand it.

imo.

Nothing in the past 24 hours makes total sense in this case.

 

[gliving]

If this wasn’t his first murder(s), I’ll eat my hat. He’s an outlier.

Definitely the zebra in a herd of horses. It happens.

 

[Cool Cats]

This ^^^^

AND people keep conflating the male sample pulled from the sheath by a LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT lab and the familial sample purportedly pulled using the help of a 3rd party out of state lab.

The former is literally in the PCA and part of a legal filing. The latter is still pure speculation and all reports point to it being done after no hit in CODIS. Which would lead one to assume that the local sample was pulled FIRST before the sheath reportedly left the state. If you believe one part of this reporting you have to accept all of it.

IMO Those hoping for those two things to be one and the same OR some sort of chain of custody issue are going to be sorely disappointed.

Clear explanation. I believe you are correct, that the Idaho State Lab obtained a John Doe DNA profile. Then to get an identity to go with the DNA, the ISL reached out to a lab that specializes in kinship DNA.

Somehow it has gotten construed that the Idaho State Lab wasn't able to extract a DNA profile and they were so desperate to obtain one that they sent the sample to a Texas company that specializes in forensic genealogy.

So if the Idaho lab couldn't extract enough DNA for a genetic profile, why send it to a lab that specializes in matching DNA to relatives? This lab matches DNA that already has a genetic profile.

If the sheath DNA was lacking, then I believe the sheath would have been sent to the FBI Lab in Quantico Virginia to try to get a genetic profile.... 2 Cents .........

FBI Laboratory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[10ofRods]

The 'research quiz' account was BK. It literally had his name on the account. It was created and posted before the murders. He wasn't hiding that fact.

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger's haunting Reddit crime survey

Bryan Kohberger is in custody awaiting extradition from Pennsylvania to Idaho. He was arrested in the Poconos in the early hours of Friday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Papa Rodgers did not have a Reddit account. At least not one with any notoriety. I'm going to assume since DailyMail reported on this, that it's OK for me to post this....but THIS is the Reddit account that people linked to BK because of creepy posts. That one too has been debunked over and over again.

Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

Former FBI investigator Jennifer Coffindaffer suggested that suspect Bryan Kohberger joined social media discussion groups about the Idaho murders.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This thing has become so detached from the facts that it's become mythical now. Retold with added flourish each and every time The FBI agent that's always on Twitter hasn't helped either.

I repeated a lot of the speculation I posted here, on Reddit in a more narrative form. I too was accused of being BK by 3 different users in a thread via comments and via direct messages. I can assure you that I'm not BK. IMO The reason those two accounts stood out to everyone is that they used the same cadence and posting style as the person who posed as Qanon. Using short form and disguising statements and theories as questions.

Right? I mean, the insistence that his user name on reddit was Pappa Rodger flies in the face of the (still active) FB group that had Pappa Rodger as a member. The reddit account had a different name, IIRC.

Pappa Rodger had tons of posts on FB. And he's still being discussed on that group as a former member. I don't know how that one reddit mod got herself inserted into the case, but the subreddit she moderates is not a major one.

I am so sorry you were attacked/confused with BK. But that's reddit. And I agree there was never a Pappa Rodger account there.

Research account did have his name on it - but I think it was inside the post (maybe not the user name) and included the name of his professor and an email for reference. It was unusual to try that as a research technique; I assume BK was already a redditor and like most redditors, had some throwaway accounts - and the research account. When that account posted (once ? twice ?) it certainly said it was Kohberger from DeSales.

IMO. All deleted now of course.

Zebras indeed, in this case. Well, at least there's a trickle of information (preposterous or not) to chew on here at WS. I'm learning more about various state's GJ's than I could have in any other way. The US is like 52 different nations (counting DC and PR).

 

[10ofRods]

The 'research quiz' account was BK. It literally had his name on the account. It was created and posted before the murders. He wasn't hiding that fact.

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger's haunting Reddit crime survey

Bryan Kohberger is in custody awaiting extradition from Pennsylvania to Idaho. He was arrested in the Poconos in the early hours of Friday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Papa Rodgers did not have a Reddit account. At least not one with any notoriety. I'm going to assume since DailyMail reported on this, that it's OK for me to post this....but THIS is the Reddit account that people linked to BK because of creepy posts. That one too has been debunked over and over again.

Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

Former FBI investigator Jennifer Coffindaffer suggested that suspect Bryan Kohberger joined social media discussion groups about the Idaho murders.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This thing has become so detached from the facts that it's become mythical now. Retold with added flourish each and every time The FBI agent that's always on Twitter hasn't helped either.

I repeated a lot of the speculation I posted here, on Reddit in a more narrative form. I too was accused of being BK by 3 different users in a thread via comments and via direct messages. I can assure you that I'm not BK. IMO The reason those two accounts stood out to everyone is that they used the same cadence and posting style as the person who posed as Qanon. Using short form and disguising statements and theories as questions.

Right? I mean, the insistence that his user name on reddit was Pappa Rodger flies in the face of the (still active) FB group that had Pappa Rodger as a member. The reddit account had a different name, IIRC.

Pappa Rodger had tons of posts on FB. And he's still being discussed on that group as a former member. I don't know how that one reddit mod got herself inserted into the case, but the subreddit she moderates is not a major one.

I am so sorry you were attacked/confused with BK. But that's reddit. And I agree there was never a Pappa Rodger account there.

Research account did have his name on it - but I think it was inside the post (maybe not the user name) and included the name of his professor and an email for reference. It was unusual to try that as a research technique; I assume BK was already a redditor and like most redditors, had some throwaway accounts - and the research account. When that account posted (once ? twice ?) it certainly said it was Kohberger from DeSales.

IMO. All deleted now of course.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I could be wrong but I don't think grand juries are always impaneled for just one case. The jurors serve for a period of time and they can weigh in on multiple cases during that time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not an attorney, this was just my general understanding.

That's right, @KellySleuth. ETA: IANAL, but I can look up the basics on the internet

In Idaho, Grand Juries sit for a period of up to 6 months, and hear whatever cases come before them on an "as needed basis":
I.C.R. 6.7. Discharge of Grand Jury | Supreme Court
"Idaho Criminal Rule 6.7. Discharge of Grand Jury
A grand jury must serve until discharged by the court but no grand jury may serve more than six months unless specifically ordered by the court that summoned the grand jury."

In Pennsylvania, they sit for up to 18 months to 2 years (BBM):
How a Grand Jury in Pennsylvania Works | Ketchel Law - Criminal Lawyers Pittsburgh
"A grand jury is like a trial jury, in that people from the community are selected to serve on the jury. However, a grand jury may serve much longer (18 months to two years) and meet only once a week, as opposed to daily.
The purpose of the grand jury is not to determine whether a person is guilty or innocent or whether they committed the crime in question, but whether there is ample evidence to bring forth charges for a crime.

Unlike a trial jury, the verdict does not need to be unanimous; only a majority or super majority of votes is needed to determine whether the criminal case should proceed. However, even if the grand jury does not move forward with a criminal case, a prosecutor could still pursue charges though a preliminary hearing.

A grand jury has a wide range of power to issue subpoenas and call witnesses and physical evidence.

GRAND JURIES IN PENNSYLVANIA​

In Pennsylvania, a grand jury can begin at the county level by a prosecutor who submitting an application to a presiding judge to summon a grand jury. It can also begin at a multi-county level by the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s request to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

Types of crimes that may provoke a grand jury include certain sex crimes, federal crimes, and drug crimes."

 

[SLouTh]

I thought it was only removed from the PA PCA?

This is huge news, if not. And I haven't seen any discussion until right now.

IMO.

So the sheath was dropped from one of the PCA’s… the PA one …. This is probably where the confusion has come from …. Thankyou.

As a sheath was listed on the PA PCA in the first place, could that mean that the knife the Police found in the PA search, was actually found enclosed in a sheath??

It would be interesting to know….
IMO

 

[Helechawagirl]

The GJ there does not have the authority to address crimes from other states.

Here it is...

FIRST ON CNN: Parents of Idaho student murder suspect have been subpoenaed to testify before Pennsylvania grand jury | CNN

The parents of Bryan Kohberger have been subpoenaed to testify before a Monroe County, Pennsylvania, investigative grand jury, according to a source familiar with the situation.

www.cnn.com

By law, a Monroe County grand jury can only review potential crimes that occurred within Monroe County, Pennsylvania. It is unclear what potential crime they are investigating.

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The main thing suspicious about the Dana Smithers death, in regards to BK, is the timing. According to the affidavit, his phone was activated in June, which seems to mean he left for ID very shortly after DS's disappearance. JMO.

ETA: Thanks @Sister Golden Hair, for explaining that the phone activation date might not reflect true moving date.

I agree, @TL45, that BK getting a new phone in June with AT&T in PA, shortly after DS disappeared, and then moving 2,000 miles away shortly thereafter could be suspicious.

The timing description on "thereafter" is a matter of perspective, I guess, but I have seen references to him moving to WA or being there to look for housing maybe in June but not moving into his student housing apartment until August, nothing concrete, though, which in my view (1 to 2 months later and shortly after graduating from DeSales) is very shortly and/or shortly thereafter. Especially if he had a different phone and carrier beforehand for years, IMO.

The PCA mentions his cell phone carrier was AT&T, and purchased in June in PA, which has always held my attention because IMO, LE mentioned that for a reason or reasons that are germane to the case against him and demonstrating probable cause.

The way I read the PCA, I don't think he just got a new phone on the same plan with the same number, and so they mention the new number associated with the new carrier (AT&T), because he got rid of his previous phone, phone number, and carrier in June, and got a wholly new setup after DS went missing and before he was about to move to WA.

IMO, it could be BK starting a new life with a new clean slate on his new clean phone, that would make it quite difficult to link his digital trail in PA to his upcoming one in WA and ID. He could have decided to do it for innocent reasons, but I'm not one to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point especially since it was mentioned in the PCA, and we don't know all the reasons why (besides LE used his cell phone pings to estimate his phone's whereabouts before, during, and after the murders).

Another reason I think it's interesting he went with AT&T as the carrier for his new phone before he moved away, is purely speculative and MOO, and that is because it's been alluded to on some tech support Q&A platforms/discussion boards/reviews of both cellphone brands and service carriers that AT&T's service can be less accurate sometimes in triangulating a phone's location where coverage is spotty, paraphrasing here.

I've read it's something to do with one of the aspects of the location triangulation technical process having fewer "loops" of retrieval of a signal from a tower, and thus maybe being less accurate than some other carriers.

I don't know if it's technically accurate, so IMO, but I can attest to experiencing this personally, having had several different carriers over the years, and noticing with AT&T that some apps like "find my phone" don't work as well as other carriers at the times I had the different carriers for my same phone.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

So the sheath was dropped from one of the PCA’s… the PA one …. This is probably where the confusion has come from …. Thankyou.

As a sheath was listed on the PA PCA in the first place, could that mean that the knife the Police found in the PA search, was actually found enclosed in a sheath??

It would be interesting to know….
IMO

Thanks, @SLouTh, yours is the first post about the sheath possum-bilities that I've seen all week that doesn't make my brain hurt!

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I meant to reply to your post, @arielilane, on the last thread, "before it got away from me", linking an MSM article about a book on the Idaho murders being co-written by a "prominent" author and investigative journalist (with an option for a docuseries).

It makes me cringe.

Simply because this is exactly what I think someone like BK would be over the moon about and feeds the "crime of the century" narrative, IMO.

It's their prerogative, of course, and I'm sure they and their publishers think there are good reasons for it, but sheeesshhhh, it's the modern day version of "bumping" documentation of these horrific crimes up to the next level for all time, right out of the gate (pre-trial). MOO

Another link about it in Forbes magazine :
James Patterson To Write Book About The University Of Idaho Murders—Just Months After Killings
"Best-selling novelist James Patterson and investigative journalist Vicky Ward will reportedly team up to write a nonfiction book about the murder of four University of Idaho students last November—which shocked the nation and led to a massive manhunt for the suspected killer—that will likely also be optioned for a docuseries."

 

[SLouTh]

Does any one have a link to the PA Probable Cause Affidavit please???

I can only find the Idaho one ….

Many thanks ….

 

[SLouTh]

I meant to reply to your post, @arielilane, on the last thread, "before it got away from me", linking an MSM article about a book on the Idaho murders being co-written by a "prominent" author and investigative journalist (with an option for a docuseries).

It makes me cringe.

Simply because this is exactly what I think someone like BK would be over the moon about and feeds the "crime of the century" narrative, IMO.

It's their prerogative, of course, and I'm sure they and their publishers think there are good reasons for it, but sheeesshhhh, it's the modern day version of "bumping" documentation of these horrific crimes up to the next level for all time, right out of the gate (pre-trial). MOO

Another link about it in Forbes magazine :
James Patterson To Write Book About The University Of Idaho Murders—Just Months After Killings
"Best-selling novelist James Patterson and investigative journalist Vicky Ward will reportedly team up to write a nonfiction book about the murder of four University of Idaho students last November—which shocked the nation and led to a massive manhunt for the suspected killer—that will likely also be optioned for a docuseries."

Hopefully the book will only be written and released post trial….

If the book is to be strictly non fiction, they will need the evidence presented at the trial, as substance for the book … IMO

I surmise they are just releasing this information now to try and thwart other authors from doing the same ….. but JMO …

 

[Nova]

I agree 100%.

While we are all sympathetic to the plight of the families in the run up to trials and during trials, criminal proceedings (including the awarding punishment to those found guilty) are not held primarily for the benefit of the families. The crime-- whether it's murder or something else-- isn't a crime against a family per se--- it's a crime against society. And while we don't look forward to seeing family members undergo difficult courtroom experiences including cross-examinations, the emotional experiences of the families (or other victims) cannot dictate what is appropriate during a trial that could deprive an individual of his/her liberty or his/her life. And if we did that, and gave a big role to the family in deciding things like punishment, should the big family of a victim--lots of adult sibs, for example-- have a larger say than a family consisting only of a widowed mother? What about victims who have no surviving family members? Do we care less about crimes against them than crimes against those with big families? Should "louder" families who are more willing to speak up have a larger say than "quieter" families?

All in all it's simpler to recognize it's not all about the families (even though families may disagree.) Trials for murder aren't all about the murder victims either (something families often don't understand.) That's certainly not to say no one cares about victims or surviving family members. Obviously as a society we have put things in place such as reserved seating at trials, the opportunity to make impact statements at sentencing, the right to attend executions, the right to pursue civil penalties against criminal perpetrators, and so on that recognize the effect of the crime on the family. But criminal trials are to help maintain an orderly society and to prevent vigilante justice, not to seek a preferred form of vengeance for a family.

In this case, an earlier post suggested 3 of the 4 families of the victims would want the DP sought and their desire should be followed. I don't know if those numbers are right. But do we really want punishment to be determined by "majority rule" with the only votes cast by people deep in grief?
JMO

Beautifully put, NCW!

Aeschylus covered all the relevant principles and dramatized the problem of personal vengeance (basically, how can it ever end?) in his tragic trilogy, THE ORESTEIA.

Brilliant and, with a good translation, easily readable. And he wrote it all 2,500 years ago!