4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[Eagle2123]

We know, based on the amount of evidence already provided to the defense team, that there is more evidence; However, If if the assailant's DNA was under the fingernails of a victim, IMO it would have been mentioned in the PCA.

Why mention DNA under the fingernails if they have DNA on the sheath found on the bed? Do they disclose that early on? Does that usually take place? Not arguing. Just curious. As far as the gloves. It’s been reported his sisters noticed him wearing them around the house on Xmas break. I just found it odd a guy would walk around his family home with rubber gloves on.

 

[10ofRods]

We know, based on the amount of evidence already provided to the defense team, that there is more evidence; However, If if the assailant's DNA was under the fingernails of a victim, IMO it would have been mentioned in the PCA.

Well, they didn't have Kohberger's DNA, itself, at the time the PCA was written. They had the partial match to one of his parents, via Othram.

I have posted before about forensic techniques used on a living person's body to see if they have healed scratch marks, up to months after the injury. We know that Kohberger went to a doctor within a couple of days, but we don't know if that was for a sore throat or required any kind of disrobing (it may have been his attempt to put something on record that he was not scratched, but we'd need the medical records for that). IOW, I think Kohberger was thinking of ways to buy time. As people who have committed crimes often or usually do.

So they could not have had a match to BK by the time of the PCA. If such a match exists, they have it now and the GJ heard it.

I think the only person who could possibly have scratched him would be Xana. But he was wearing (IMO), full clothing, shoes and socks, gloves, and a face mask. I don't know if we've heard if he was wearing a hat or a hoodie.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Has that been confirmed?
If it is true that he was wearing gloves in his parents house s what is the connection to the murders?

It was on Dateline. Someone in the investigation told them a sister said he had some new behaviors that made her, his sister, suspicious that he was the murderer in Moscow. He had a white Elantra, he was obsessively cleaning it with bleach, and had a new habit of wearing what Dateline reported as "latex" gloves around the house.

Keep in mind that PA investigators are not bound by the gag order, and that there may be a special informant (identity protected) somewhere about. I don't have the link for this last bit of information, so IMO. But we've discussed it here.

Confirmation, from my pov, happens only in a court of law and even then, we each get to regard the witnesses and evidence from our own perches. From WS's point of view, Dateline is MSM.

IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Watched the charges being read to BK closely, <modsnip> BK seems to have more of a reaction to XK’s name being read than any other of the victims. Just an observation but I know it’s been thrown around a lot that the targets were either MM or KG. What if it was XK? Or does he have this reaction bc XK and EC ruined his original plan? Thoughts?

I imagine he may have had a visceral response because she made him especially angry. That she'd dare fight back... and he was recalling the extra effort...

I hope she gouged him.

Jmo

 

[Megnut]

This suit against the City -- is it more about information than money?

The criminal trial will likely be pushed back many times. Into next year or a year after....

Perhaps this other suit is a fast-track, backdoor action around the gag order to gain access to information via depositions.

Jmo

 

[schooling]

Has that been confirmed?
If it is true that he was wearing gloves in his parents house s what is the connection to the murders?

It might not be direct evidence but IMO it can be circumstantial, if admitted.

To me, it's clear sign of consciousness of guilt. The defense would have every opportunity to cross examine or present their own testimony/evidence contradicting it.

Of course, I've seen some cherry pick character testimonials from press interviews/reports to explain away this behavior. But many of those same character witnesses had a lot of weird things to say about him too.

As a juror is this weird to you? Could you see yourself doing that? What might be the reasons that he would be doing that in the context of this case? Why divide the trash into bags? Why wasn't his DNA found in the trash LE took from the house?

This doesn't look good in context.

MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

We know, based on the amount of evidence already provided to the defense team, that there is more evidence; However, If if the assailant's DNA was under the fingernails of a victim, IMO it would have been mentioned in the PCA.

I respectfully disagree that DNA evidence would be mentioned in the PCA or therefore it doesn’t exist.

A probable cause affidavit is written with just enough evidence to convince a Judge that there is probable cause to issue an arrest warrant.

The Prosecution doesn’t provide every bit of evidence they have at that time.

jmo

 

[Erutan]

I always look back to KG’s father that said. “Hell of a battle”. I’ve always felt DNA was under one or more victims fingernails. If a battle ensued BK‘s DNA will be under either EC or XK‘s fingernails. There’s more evidence than the public knows. Bk may even know that the struggle that insued on the 2nd floor is what has gotten him where he is. And his reaction to those charges and hearing her name caused him to clinch his teeth repeatedly.

If there is dna of BK's from under the fingernails of the victims, it may not have been revealed yet.
Imo.

 

[schooling]

I respectfully disagree that DNA evidence would be mentioned in the PCA or therefore it doesn’t exist.

A probable cause affidavit is written with just enough evidence to convince a Judge that there is probable cause to issue an arrest warrant.

The Prosecution doesn’t provide every bit of evidence they have at that time.

jmo

Just to back up the above...

If we're to believe the Dateline reporting LE knew that Kohlberger bought the knife and/or sheath from Amazon by the time the PCA was written. If true, that's another gigantic piece of the puzzle that they purposely left out of the PCA.

In addition to only needing the bare minimum...when you realize that LE hadn't definitively matched the presumed suspects DNA (left on the sheath) directly to Kohlberger at that point. It makes sense why they left out more DNA based evidence.

 

[I'm Nobody]

#MaddieMayDay​

Random Acts of Kindness​

Friday, May 25, 2023 (Maddie's Birthday)​

Mogen family asks community to do random acts of kindness on ‘Maddie May Day’ on May 25 to honor slain UI student​

The family created a website and #MaddieMayDay for people to share their good deeds. They also created an Instagram, @maddie.may.day, for the occasion.


Wanted to bring this over as a reminder. Says a lot about the family. Smiles, cookies, hugs, and prayers up.

Mogen family asks community to do random acts of kindness on ‘Maddie May Day’ on May 25 to honor slain UI student

After Maddie May Mogen was killed along with three other University of Idaho students last fall, her family struggled in the midst of such dark and heavy circumstances to find

www.idahostatejournal.com

Maddie May Day

maddiemayday.com

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Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

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edit to add links.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

We know, based on the amount of evidence already provided to the defense team, that there is more evidence; However, If if the assailant's DNA was under the fingernails of a victim, IMO it would have been mentioned in the PCA.

Agreed. Much more compelling that touch DNA on a sheath, and then it might not have been necessary for the WA PCA (for the search there) to offer up the exclusion of the DNA. Touch DNA on sheath could get there lots of ways; skin under fingernails, not so much. I know that there are the why offer it up in the PCA arguments, but the bigger question is WHY NOT? The defense is going to know anyway because DISCOVERY and there are no cat-and-mouse tricks to play here. Esp in WA. IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

If there is dna of BK's from under the fingernails of the victims, it may not have been revealed yet.
Imo.

Except for discovery where everything is coming out anyway. So why hide it? if they didn't want the public to know, redact it, although there'd be no reason for that. Although LE doesn't have to offer everything, compelling evidence is really a good idea and skin under nails, DNA under nails is far more compelling. Why not just save the knife sheath touch DNA as their secret reveal? Other than that there are no secret reveals to the Defense, I can't think of one other reason but jmo.

 

[Cindizzi]

Just to back up the above...

If we're to believe the Dateline reporting LE knew that Kohlberger bought the knife and/or sheath from Amazon by the time the PCA was written. If true, that's another gigantic piece of the puzzle that they purposely left out of the PCA.

In addition to only needing the bare minimum...when you realize that LE hadn't definitively matched the presumed suspects DNA (left on the sheath) directly to Kohlberger at that point. It makes sense why they left out more DNA based evidence.

If I recall correctly, Dateline said that their source said that BK purchased the knife from Amazon in April, before he traveled to Washington state.

Here is the search warrant issued to Amazon.

Of course we don’t know the return on it or if LE had the results at the time they wrote the PCA. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Amazon.pdf

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

MOO: Courts are going to have to establish guidelines for summaries of evidence records. The sheer volume of data consequence of tracking processes and data dumps from the web and the cloud as well as cell phones, GPS locators, smart watches, laptops and similar by LE yields huge volumes of data that cannot possibly be presented cogently and succinctly to a jury. Trials have seen summaries presented, hashed and rehashed but the inclusions in the summaries were the selection and collation by peripheral legal types as well as paid consultants and virtually all on behalf of the prosecution and subject to considerable challenge in terms of their validity.

More importantly to the legal process, the impartiality of those preparers is readily challenged.....particularly in terms of what else was in those data dumps that could be considered exculpatory. A well heeled defendant could finance the parse and presentation of that same data for his defense, but that delivers judicial leniency to the rich. Flip the columns around and no one would ever know they were sourced from the same data strings unless they were told...

Also the organization of those summaries varied from trial to trial: Some were time driven, some were person driven, some were account driven; depending on the critical elements of the case.

There's going to be a lot of that in this trial. So far, IIRC: over 10000 photographs and 54 terabytes of data? Are those in fact overlapping? And what proportion of it is in fact simply another data dump?

A little off topic; it will be interesting to see how this plays out. All IMHO.

I think it's in the last thread that I addressed this very question and cited rules of professional conduct and reasons that this would be unacceptable. The court can actually require the prosecution to sort it out, it's not fair play if things are hidden in the dump, and it can be cause for sanctions and IIRC appeal. I provided links there, too.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

Just to back up the above...

If we're to believe the Dateline reporting LE knew that Kohlberger bought the knife and/or sheath from Amazon by the time the PCA was written. If true, that's another gigantic piece of the puzzle that they purposely left out of the PCA.

In addition to only needing the bare minimum...when you realize that LE hadn't definitively matched the presumed suspects DNA (left on the sheath) directly to Kohlberger at that point. It makes sense why they left out more DNA based evidence.

I went back and listened to the part on Dateline about the knife and Amazon and Dateline said the knife was purchased a month before BK's trip to WA. They do not say when LE was aware of the purchase so it may have been known before the PCA but more than likely LE was not aware of the purchase at the time of the PCA. JMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

If I recall correctly, Dateline said that their source said that BK purchased the knife from Amazon in April, before he traveled to Washington state.

Here is the search warrant issued to Amazon.

Of course we don’t know the return on it or if LE had the results at the time they wrote the PCA. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Amazon.pdf

View attachment 424247View attachment 424248View attachment 424249View attachment 424250

I provided a summary of dates and cited the related Blue Knives warrant in the last thread. Blue Knives dates were the issue.

Let's see if I can maybe do this right this time: I don't think that worked so here's the long version.


I think the knife was allegedly purchased from Amazon in April 2022, is that right? Because then I'm curious about these warrants (always with me and the warrants lol).
One does have to wonder why, if the Amazon warrant produced the knife, (receipt dated 12.14 says Amazon returned information on 12.8)
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Amazon.pdf
why then did LE do the warrant to Blue Ridge Knives dated 12.12?
Did LE just not bother to check the Amazon one? They knew about BK at that time? What was PC or were they just 'checking to be sure'?
I thought about the fact that LE may have been following the trail from Amazon to Blue Ridge Knives to see which Amazon seller bought what knives for resale...
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Blue%20Ridge%20Knives.pdf
But if that's the case, then why narrow those purchases to these dates:
o On or about 03/08/2022 the purchase of 360 units
o 0n or about 06/24/2022 the purchase of 480 units
(from Blue Ridge warrant above)
March purchase is a pretty tight window to get the order and turn it around and get it to BK - was there no older inventory? Usually inventory is sold FIFOd not LIFOd (first in, first out, last in, last out*), and June comes after April - well after. Supposedly, BK was already in possession by then, so if they're sure about Amazon, why June? And why no warrant to the reseller on Amazon? One would think that's a loose end to be tied up - certainly the end piece of an audit or investigatory trail.
I'm sure there are lots of theories, but there are lots of questions, too.
IMO, targeting that date raises real questions about the veracity of the claim since neither Amazon nor BK can time travel to my knowledge and based on what we know now. One possibility: Maybe the knife purchase isn't as rock solid as the leak said?
*editing to add a footnote for any of the accountants here - I'm speaking actual practice, not inventory accounting method here. No GAAP required

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Has that been confirmed?
If it is true that he was wearing gloves in his parents house s what is the connection to the murders?

I consider this 3/3/23 local PA news reporting as confirmation:
“Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."”

The Mancuso quoted is Monroe County First Assistant Michael Mancuso.

Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest

HTH & MOO

 

[Nova]

DBM

 

[Helechawagirl]

Thank you. Saving your post, as I know I'll forget again. I remember Gray now.



When I use the word "staring," I am including the eye movements, just as you are. His eyes move around less than most people's (except for people who are in a stressful situation, including many people who have been called out for an error or have been called to do something surprising to themselves). His gaze is relatively fixed. I agree that he looks as if he's intensely studying whoever he's talking to. Even when he smiles at AT, the smile seems quick and perfunctory and disconnected from the intense, unblinking gaze (he blinks, he just doesn't do it often). Many stressed people blink more often than usual.

It does give the impression that this is a person who needs to study reactions in order to interact. Of course, I've seen him mostly in encounters with police or in court. But I am guessing that the apartment resident who started avoiding him (feeling the conversations were too one-sided and too intense), experienced the same thing (and probably also his fellow grad students and the undergrads he was teaching, I imagine).

I see this as related to his VSS. I don't want to praise him, but I think he worked to overcome the disability/condition. If he does experience depersonalization, then yes, one way for him to interact is through a series of computer-like responses, all of them consciously learned. I also want to say that among this group (lots of people have something going on - maybe 3% of people), there aren't a lot of killers. I really wish someone could study him.

I agree. If he is executed, I think his brain should go to research—too many serials and mass murderers in the US. What is different with them? Is there something that can be done to predict/prevent this? Just killing people at random is so far from the norm that I just don’t understand. JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

I agree. If he is executed, I think his brain should go to research—too many serials and mass murderers in the US. What is different with them? Is there something that can be done to predict/prevent this? Just killing people at random is so far from the norm that I just don’t understand. JMO

I'd like to know more too! But in the US I don't think executed prisoners can be forced to "donate" their bodies to science. (And I personally doubt we'd find answers in brain structure anyway.) Prisoners-- even those on death row for whom execution is likely imminent can't be forced to participate in experiments to gain knowledge. They can't even "volunteer" for otherwise unethical experiments (assuming a prisoner can ever really volunteer.)

If he is found guilty, I wish BK could be studied in prison while alive. From what we seem to know about him, he might go along with that. And using that approach is where answers will eventually be found IMO.
All JMO