4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #82

[jepop]

Good Memory @jepop ! I also saw mention of an FBI FA in a receipt.


View attachment 426513

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20American%20Express.pdf

MOO

Ah, thank you! MY memory retains odd bits and pieces sometimes. I will remember the name Michael Douglass now (unfortunately, an easy one to remember from this point onwards given the actor ...wonder if fbi SA Douglass added the second 's' deliberately ;-) ).

In addition to the American Expresss records, there are several others, though not sure if Mr two ess Douglass is mentioned in person again. After Mowery (in most cases) states " I received the requested information", there is in these instances a line following that states he emailed it to ...blank...which I remember surmising at the time was probably a digital forensic specialist. I think occasionally, some of the delays in loading the return inventory into evidence may have been due to awaiting fbi analysis of data. Or Mowery receives the inventory from the fbi (who has received it directly from the warranted body) and then downloads. MOO and educated guessing.

 

[Nila Aella]

Yes, I could see that horrible possibility. I still think that the house and it's layout was part of the attraction to that location choice. 2 pretty girls walking into a locked lobby of an apartment complex would be less alluring, than a big 'fishbowl' of a house with lots of entrances and exits, and lots of secret vantage points, where you can see into various windows.

All very good points!

We’ve not discussed the rest of the neighborhood much, nor will I for obvious reasons, but there are quite a few houses in that general neighborhood that are just as vulnerable & visible, or nearly so. The murder house was the most iconic one (MOO), but it’s not the only one.

I look at everything differently when I drive in that area now. Four young people were senselessly & brutally murdered & the carefree & communal vibe is just forever gone for me, I think.

Something I noticed while monitoring the MPD daily log.
Moscow residents are not afraid to call MPD for suspicious person/circumstance/item.
I can't imagine BK sitting in a car or at the edge of the woods spying for an hour (referring to Aug 21 in PCA) without someone noticing and calling MPD. Even just hanging around in a neighborhood where he is not known would elicit a call IMO.

I did not watch the logs before November 13, so the number of calls might also be a result of these brutal murders.

Daily Activity Log | Moscow, ID

See the Police Departments Daily Activity Log.

www.ci.moscow.id.us

MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

Ah, thank you! MY memory retains odd bits and pieces sometimes. I will remember the name Michael Douglass now (unfortunately, an easy one to remember from this point onwards given the actor ...wonder if fbi SA Douglass added the second 's' deliberately ;-) ).

In addition to the American Expresss records, there are several others, though not sure if Mr two ess Douglass is mentioned in person again. After Mowery (in most cases) states " I received the requested information", there is in these instances a line following that states he emailed it to ...blank...which I remember surmising at the time was probably a digital forensic specialist. I think occasionally, some of the delays in loading the return inventory into evidence may have been due to awaiting fbi analysis of data. Or Mowery receives the inventory from the fbi (who has received it directly from the warranted body) and then downloads. MOO and educated guessing.

Same exact thoughts, on both!
I did briefly look through to check time periods and this one is definitely an extended period of time compared to the others. Most were downloaded promptly, some had a few day delay, some a week. This one is 6 weeks before a download to mpd.
It might be due to size and scope, like @girlhasnoname mentioned though. The other reddit warrant was returned by email (no dates listed in that return summary to compare), this one was returned with a link in the email so it might have been larger in size and scope.
MOO

 

[jepop]

You got them all

I do suspect a couple other warrants that are related to BK, looking at the identifiers and fair trial portions of the warrant. Need more information on those to really know. JMO

@Nila Aella, I tend to agree with you, esp re those two sealed Google warrants that reference 'fair trial' in the most recent sealing orders. Though as you say, more info required to be sure. MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

Something I noticed while monitoring the MPD daily log.
Moscow residents are not afraid to call MPD for suspicious person/circumstance/item.
I can't imagine BK sitting in a car or at the edge of the woods spying for an hour (referring to Aug 21 in PCA) without someone noticing and calling MPD. Even just hanging around in a neighborhood where he is not known would elicit a call IMO.

I did not watch the logs before November 13, so the number of calls might also be a result of these brutal murders.

Daily Activity Log | Moscow, ID

See the Police Departments Daily Activity Log.

www.ci.moscow.id.us

MOO

This is somewhat of a change in the locals behavior. I think you'll find that pattern more after the events of 11/13. That's when I started keeping an eye on the reportings of suspicious circumstances and watched them soar.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Maybe they are trying to prove there was NOT a previous connection. It seems the defense might be planning some kind of a scenario, where BK was just visiting that night, maybe to purchase drugs, or hang out, and he has been falsely accused as the killer, when he was just a friend who partied with them.

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. I've seen nothing from the defense that suggests they may be planning such a defense. IMO, there's no information (that I've seen) that gives an inkling of the strategy AT is planning. Also IMO, if the goal is to prove there was not a previous connection, I think that's going to be weak. Again, proving a negative.

MOO.

 

[Chloegirl]

"Such a murderer is killing to feed some twisted psychological need or enact some hideous fantasy that is personal and idiosyncratic to him."

Clearly expressed. This is exactly what I mean and expressed far more succinctly.

EBM spelling

Fortunately, we are not going to know what the perpetrator felt and we can speculate on it a lot. My opinion is a little opposite, in that he did what he did like someone who (apologies to even mention this) cuts themselves in order to feel. I think he wanted to know what it was like to feel because of his possible dissociative disorder. He wanted to remove happiness from others and experience it through their loss. Obviously sick and twisted, but if you're on the outside constantly, I think somehow you're looking for a way in.

Hopefully, this is something none of us can relate to and it is a result of a very sick person. Pre-11/13, I would have a lot of empathy for anyone suffering in this way. But after the decision to move forward with this plan, NO. JMOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Ethan's Mom, STACY CHAPIN, just wrote a children's book.
The Boy Who Wore Blue to honor Ethan.

The Boy Who Wore Blue|Hardcover

The Boy Who Wore Blue is the story of a happy kiddo who loves his family, life and new adventures. He's a funny, kind and inclusive friend to all, especially his best friends - a triplet brother and sister. The detailed illustrations depict everyday activities and highlight how a sunny...

www.barnesandnoble.com

A Chapin family member's TikTok.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7240376699982974234

edit added other link.

A wonderful -- and healthy -- way to grieve the loss of her son. I really admire and respect the Chapins.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yeah, I’m suspicious of that web site, YMMV & MOO. I’ve heard nothing like that here, nothing has been reported locally, or discussed in Latah BOCC (Board of County Commissioners) meetings. Anything is possible, of course, but I have to wonder how some commercial Web site would have that info when county officials don’t. Again, MOO.

I don't think it's that county officials don't have that information. I think it's that county officials aren't willing to publicly disclose that information. There's a big difference, IMO.

 

[TL4S]

Fortunately, we are not going to know what the perpetrator felt and we can speculate on it a lot. My opinion is a little opposite, in that he did what he did like someone who (apologies to even mention this) cuts themselves in order to feel. I think he wanted to know what it was like to feel because of his possible dissociative disorder. He wanted to remove happiness from others and experience it through their loss. Obviously sick and twisted, but if you're on the outside constantly, I think somehow you're looking for a way in.

Hopefully, this is something none of us can relate to and it is a result of a very sick person. Pre-11/13, I would have a lot of empathy for anyone suffering in this way. But after the decision to move forward with this plan, NO. JMOO.

This is a really thought-provoking post, imo. If we look at his previous discussions of feeling disconnected, the exploratory reddit survey about criminal emotions, his choice of psychology for a major, then further criminology, it could possibly be surmised that BK was in pursuit of understanding himself and his emotions, or lack thereof. Maybe even his deviant tendencies. Your sentence, "...that he did what he did like someone who (apologies to even mention this) cut themselves in order to feel." That is entirely believable. I also tend to think happiness and loss was perhaps not what he was after, as much as possible feelings of superiority and significance. After all, he admitted to experiencing delusions of grandeur in Tapatalk. JMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

Ah, thank you! MY memory retains odd bits and pieces sometimes. I will remember the name Michael Douglass now (unfortunately, an easy one to remember from this point onwards given the actor ...wonder if fbi SA Douglass added the second 's' deliberately ;-) ).

In addition to the American Expresss records, there are several others, though not sure if Mr two ess Douglass is mentioned in person again. After Mowery (in most cases) states " I received the requested information", there is in these instances a line following that states he emailed it to ...blank...which I remember surmising at the time was probably a digital forensic specialist. I think occasionally, some of the delays in loading the return inventory into evidence may have been due to awaiting fbi analysis of data. Or Mowery receives the inventory from the fbi (who has received it directly from the warranted body) and then downloads. MOO and educated guessing.

Found this one, which has a 3 week delay.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20PaypalVenmo.pdf

 

[jepop]

Found this one, which has a 3 week delay.

View attachment 426539

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20PaypalVenmo.pdf

Your doing all the legwork @Nila Aella. My legs are temporarily unavailable...good find, nice work and thank you again for posting a screen shot.

 

[10ofRods]

First paragraph above BBM

I don't believe I said the CC credits were an issue. I was just pointing out he finished at the CC in 2018. So if that meant spring or summer of 2018, there's no reason to think that he'd have waited until fall of 2019 to start at DeSales. So IMO chances are he was at DeSales for longer than the 3 years you mentioned. He could have been there for up to four years if he began at DeSales in fall 2018, or at least 3 1/2 years if he began in spring 2019. Being there longer would certainly have allowed him to have taken extra electives at either the undergrad or grad level. As you said, he'd not have had much left to do for the undergrad PSY degree that he earned in 2020. (Finishing up PSY in two years with a CC AA wouldn't have required acceleration IMO.) And as I said in my post, the DeSales CJ grad degree is only 30-semester hours. Earning 30 semester hours in two years after earning the PSY degree in 2020 wouldn't have been so demanding that he couldn't have fit in some cloud/digital electives.

So I don't think we know what courses he took at DeSales. And I don't know if the LE statement about his education credentials from the interview panel was based only on his essay. The essay quote provided doesn't mention any claims about coursework or education background. It only mentions "interests." And the blurb says the education information put in the affidavit came from "records" -- To me that doesn't mean an essay but maybe an essay is an education "record" to others. Regardless, MSM blurbs can also be bad paraphrasing of what was said.

I agree with you BK may not have truly learned what he was studying. Good grades don't always mean good understanding, unfortunately.
JMO

Agree with everything you said. There are definitely "gaps" in his education - given what we know, which is very little.

And good grades definitely do not equal good understanding (it's SO hard to know in online courses; if the students even have their cameras on (most do not), they still know their face is on camera and act accordingly (as opposed to the various signals students give in real world classes and the fact that one can ask the class questions - and they actually answer in the real world; not so much in online classes.

Indeed, the most talkative online student often gets better grades for participation. I don't even use "participation" as a grading factor in real world classes (not strictly speaking; but college are required to show regular and effective contact/participation in online classes by accreditation standards - so we do try to follow the rules).

Unless I posit that Kohberger wanted to be caught, I cannot explain his errors involving his phone (which is not even remotely "cloud-based forensics," but instead, common knowledge.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I wonder the same. Often.

It’s hard to convey the vibe of a neighborhood, but there are probably hundreds of pretty young women in that oddly spread but densely populated just off-campus neighborhood.

Perhaps BK’s circling that awful night was him deciding which out of several felt right?

MOO, as always.

You made me think of Elliot Rodger, actually. Elliot never carried out phase 3 of his written plan, which was to attack a certain sorority. It's hard for me to believe that Kohberger didn't at least go by the sororities in his forays into U of I's territory. Rodger had scoped out the sorority (he says) repeatedly and carefully and thought it was possible to attack and kill women there.

I too have pondered whether Kohberger's circling around in that neighborhood was him thinking about which house was the most vulnerable that night. Or which targets were the most compelling. This could have been a deep need to experience fully the elements of criminal planning and criminal actions. I think my mind goes there mostly because it's so hard to think of any motivation for stabbing to death four people. Four people who are apparently not all well known to the criminal. We don't have a lot of parallel examples to use.

Perhaps he was pondering stranger vs. somewhat known people. IOW, perhaps he had interacted (at parties or elsewhere) with various U of I individuals, and was now centered on this particular neighborhood.

The sororities on campus generally have one main entrance, often locked at night - but sometimes not, depends entirely on the house in question. There are way more than 6 bedrooms in the sororities, perhaps 1122 King seemed like an offshoot of a sorority and it also seemed "easier" to approach.

The pictures I've seen of the two sororities in this case show large buildings with front lawns, few trees and nearby streets that appear to have some lighting. The front steps are quite visible from the street. I would assume there's more traffic, even late at night (foot and vehicular) on campus than in the neighborhood of King Road. It's just hard to believe that these killings developed in his mind just that night. If so, then I expect many more errors. It'll still be very odd to think that someone could go their whole life (with only non-violent drug offenses) and then suddenly do something like this.

IMO.

 

[Balthazar]

Now glad that we don't have a Smart TV. I hope they make non-smart ones!

The advantage of a smart TV is you can dump cable and stream TV via the internet instead - about 65% cheaper. You can also get international TV with a VPN. If you don't want the camera to be able to watch you, you can turn it around or put a piece of tape over the lens. You already have a computer or other smart device that people could watch you through since you are on the internet, so if you think about it, the risk is already in your house.

As far as these college students go, they had computer monitors and TVs, cellphones and probably tablets, all of which could be used to watch them. It will be interesting to find out if that happened in this case.

 

[katydid23]

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. I've seen nothing from the defense that suggests they may be planning such a defense. IMO, there's no information (that I've seen) that gives an inkling of the strategy AT is planning. Also IMO, if the goal is to prove there was not a previous connection, I think that's going to be weak. Again, proving a negative.

MOO.

One way to predict possible defense strategies is by listening to the supporters of the defendent, when they set forth their claims of innocence.

 

[Balthazar]

Something I noticed while monitoring the MPD daily log.
Moscow residents are not afraid to call MPD for suspicious person/circumstance/item.
I can't imagine BK sitting in a car or at the edge of the woods spying for an hour (referring to Aug 21 in PCA) without someone noticing and calling MPD. Even just hanging around in a neighborhood where he is not known would elicit a call IMO.

I did not watch the logs before November 13, so the number of calls might also be a result of these brutal murders.

Daily Activity Log | Moscow, ID

See the Police Departments Daily Activity Log.

www.ci.moscow.id.us

MOO

Early after this case started, MPD stated that they were getting a lot more calls: Idaho police see uptick in calls after university students killed

 

[katydid23]

Something I noticed while monitoring the MPD daily log.
Moscow residents are not afraid to call MPD for suspicious person/circumstance/item.
I can't imagine BK sitting in a car or at the edge of the woods spying for an hour (referring to Aug 21 in PCA) without someone noticing and calling MPD. Even just hanging around in a neighborhood where he is not known would elicit a call IMO.

I did not watch the logs before November 13, so the number of calls might also be a result of these brutal murders.

Daily Activity Log | Moscow, ID

See the Police Departments Daily Activity Log.

www.ci.moscow.id.us

MOO

I think there would be more calls to MPD for suspicious persons AFTER the murders. JMO

Also, there are ways to spy that are less noticeable than others. And very crowded student filled neighbourhoods would be less suspicious of an unknown person as there are so many residents moving in and out and so many more visitors than the average family type neighborhood. [Unless that neighborhood had just experienced a quadruple murder] JMO

 

[Balthazar]

...snipped by me for focus:

If I was BK, I would be screaming I didn’t do this or ill innocent. JMO ICBW

Not in the US. It is imperative to remain silent, even if you are innocent because anything you say can and will be used against you. For what it's worth, BK is doing the right thing in this case thus far.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

One way to predict possible defense strategies is by listening to the supporters of the defendent, when they set forth their claims of innocence.

AFAIK, official supporters (defense team, family) aren't speaking. I doubt AT is listening to strange SM supporters. By all accounts, she's way too good for that.

MOO.