4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #82

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Hmm, wonder if the media will address the judge's comment on the standing silent piece.

Behind again, as always, so apologies if this has already been answered, but the local/regional media has already addressed this. At least, I saw it addressed by several local/regional/statewide MSM outlets. YMMV & MOO, as always, of course.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Behind again, as always, so apologies if this has already been answered, but the local/regional media has already addressed this. At least, I saw it addressed by several local/regional/statewide MSM outlets. YMMV & MOO, as always, of course.

I meant the criticism by the judge about it. From what I've seen read/heard, the local media outlets are doing a good job of maintaining journalistic integrity, so it doesn't surprise me that they (a) may have addressed the judge's criticism and (b) that they got it right the first time. It's just a shame the same can't be said for the national and international media.

MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Hey everyone,

The limitation that we've imposed on discussion of mental health is in relation to members discussing specific, undiagnosed mental health conditions of the accused (i.e. schizophrenia, bipolar, etc).

IOW, it's fine to generally and simply suggest that BK or any defendant might try to introduce a mental health issue in court, and/or for others to respond that Idaho does not have that within state law. What we take issue with is members doing armchair diagnoses by bringing up numerous and sundry, specific possible conditions from A to Z when the only conditions that have been stated regarding BK are VSS and possibly OCD.

If someone says to the effect that he may try to enter a mental health issue, that's fine, and to respond re Idaho not having that component within the legal system is fine.

Please don't Report to us just because someone used the term "mental health" in their post. If that was the case, we'd have to clean up 25 years of Websleuths posts

Not sure how we can make this any more clear.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Hey everyone,

The limitation that we've imposed on discussion of mental health is in relation to members discussing specific, undiagnosed mental health conditions of the accused (i.e. schizophrenia, bipolar, etc).

IOW, it's fine to generally and simply suggest that BK or any defendant might try to introduce a mental health issue in court, and/or for others to respond that Idaho does not have that within state law. What we take issue with is members doing armchair diagnoses by bringing up numerous and sundry, specific possible conditions from A to Z when the only conditions that have been stated regarding BK are VSS and possibly OCD.

If someone says to the effect that he may try to enter a mental health issue, that's fine, and to respond re Idaho not having that component within the legal system is fine.

Please don't Report to us just because someone used the term "mental health" in their post. If that was the case, we'd have to clean up 25 years of Websleuths posts

Not sure how we can make this any more clear.

 

[Sundog]

Great idea! Excellent articles! TY
Wouldn't medical related be an excuse defense? Guilty but Insane
as opposed to an alibi defense = Title 19?
Not really sure. MOO

Your linked article describes the guilty but insane condition very well - basically the judge can take into consideration the mental state at sentencing because they really don't have an insanity defense in ID Interesting information on that and how/if/when it gets used in sentencing.
MOO


CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 5
COMPLAINT AND WARRANT OF ARREST
19-519. NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI. (1) At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.
(2) Within ten (10) days after receipt of the defendant’s notice of alibi but in no event less than ten (10) days before trial, unless the court otherwise directs, the prosecuting attorney shall serve upon the defendant or his attorney a written notice stating the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom the prosecution intends to rely to establish the defendant’s presence at the scene of the alleged offense and any other witnesses to be relied on to rebut testimony of any of the defendant’s alibi witnesses.
(3) If prior to or during trial a party learns of an additional witness whose identity, if known, should have been included in the information furnished under subsection (1) or subsection (2) of this section, the party shall promptly notify the other party or his attorney of the existence and identity of such additional witness.
(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
History:
[19-519, added 1978, ch. 301, sec. 1, p. 758.]

Title 18: mental condition not a defense

Section 18-207 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Mental illness in sentencing

Section 19-2523 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

If I understand Idaho criminal law correctly, then in a capital case during the death penalty trial, the defense can introduce issues related to mental illness and the jury may consider this during deliberations on the death penalty sentencing.

The judge can not rule on whether or not the defendant will recieve the death penalty sentence, only the jury can do this, but mental illness can be considered as a mitigating factor in the jury's decision as to whether or not rule for or against the death penalty.

 

[crhedBngr]

A paywalled New York Times article came out today on this case. The Times article discusses how genealogy, DNA and digital footprints helped identify BK.

I've summarized important points as follows:

• Genetic genealogy from a distant relative of BK's was one variable that helped crack the case
• Survellience video from around town, and footage of UPS deliveries before and after the murders,
  narrowed the vehicle search to 2011 - 2013 Elantras
• In late November, Washington State University campus police looked through their records and ID'd
  BK's 2015 Elantra
• By the morning of December 19, investigators ID'd BK as a POI.
• BK's cell-phone records were pulled on 12/23; his phone was moving around in the
  early morning hours of 11/13, but was disconnected from cell networks (possibly turned off) during the hours when the homicides occurred
• Trash collected from BK's family residence matched DNA from "a close family relative" to
  the DNA found on the knife sheath

Much of the above is what we already know; however, I find the dates interesting.

Inside the Hunt for the Idaho Killer

 

[NottaYutz]

I can only imagine what they'll find in his google searches. In the end, all of this digital data is likely to be what AT is going to have to challenge. I assume he also had a Tinder account, from these warrants (some of you will know if I'm wrong). I wonder if he ever went out on any actual dates/hang outs with potential romantic partners (both before and after moving to Pullman).

From an investigational point of view, they'll want to put together how he spent his free time, what his "type" of woman might be, whether he had any real world friendships/relationships of any depth, etc. Something tells me that BK has done a fair amount of writing over his lifetime and that they'll find quite a bit of it, including papers for his various classes. It would be interesting to see exactly what he chose to research and study.

What I don't see in the discovery documents are any references to medical records of any kind. I assume that BK intends to present himself as healthy and lacking in any mental defect, able to stand trial and cooperate with his defense.

imo

I wonder how many of the searches (pertaining to the eventual murders) will get objections from his lawyer with "the purpose of that search pertained to his thesis/degree" or something similar.

 

[NyxNY]

Anne Taylor quite literally explains the very reason for an exception or extension of time in the motion. And the reason is the sheer complexity of the case due to the multiple charges and the large volume of evidence, it's going to take longer far longer than usual to prepare an alibi for defense.

It's also not out of the realm of possibility to discover an alibi in evidence that the defence simply hasn't had the opportunity to go over.

Respectfully, can you provide a case example? I am seriously confused by this request for an extension. Either you have an alibi, or you don’t. What am I missing here?

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666354329442304000

 

[NottaYutz]

If the answer to the following question has been posted, my apologies for missing it, and please post again: Is there a reliable podcast concerning the murders and court proceedings?

Thanks in advance for the answer.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I totally agree. But I don't know if Gray knows the proper place of families in it all. If he's been practicing as long as he claims and making a decent living, he can't be as clueless as he seems at times per reporters' tweets, I guess. (It's not just grandstanding although I think he's doing that too.)

For example, Emma Epperly's account says Gray said the prosecution "should be representing the families." Well, no, that's not really true. And Gray shouldn't tell families that it is. The DA represents "the state."

For example, after getting "caught" re: his claim the state hadn't talked to the Goncalves when he was actually blocking that, Jordan Smith's account says Gray then said in court "Nothing precluded the prosecution from contacting my clients well before I started representing them.” What??? I'm not sure exactly when Gray showed up but he was definitely on the job representing the Goncalves in mid-Dec. Why would the DA talk to the family then? Nobody had even been arrested. Saying that made no sense and didn't get Gray off the hook. And per press reports, LE had talked to them. More than once.
JMO

BBM

Apologies if this has been subsequently addressed. I’ve shared this many threads back, but attorney SG was only admitted to the Idaho Bar last July:
Attorney Roster Search





His previous practice was criminal defense in the Portland, OR area. There is publicly available info about his practice there.

HTH & MOO as always.

 

[schooling]

A paywalled New York Times article came out today on this case. The Times article discusses how genealogy, DNA and digital footprints helped identify BK.

I've summarized important points as follows:

• Genetic genealogy from a distant relative of BK's was one variable that helped crack the case
• Survellience video from around town, and footage of UPS deliveries before and after the murders,
  narrowed the vehicle search to 2011 - 2013 Elantras
• In late November, Washington State University campus police looked through their records and ID'd
  BK's 2015 Elantra
• By the morning of December 19, investigators ID'd BK as a POI.
• BK's cell-phone records were pulled on 12/23; his phone was moving around in the
  early morning hours of 11/13, but was disconnected from cell networks (possibly turned off) during the hours when the homicides occurred
• Trash collected from BK's family residence matched DNA from "a close family relative" to
  the DNA found on the knife sheath

Much of the above is what we already know; however, I find the dates interesting.

Inside the Hunt for the Idaho Killer

Thanks for the summary!

<modsnip: off topic>

Also, IMO the line about the Sentra sounds like it was fed to the NYTimes by someone in the defenses camp. As long as we are pointing fingers based on who the leak hurts most.

 

[schooling]

A paywalled New York Times article came out today on this case. The Times article discusses how genealogy, DNA and digital footprints helped identify BK.

I've summarized important points as follows:

• Genetic genealogy from a distant relative of BK's was one variable that helped crack the case
• Survellience video from around town, and footage of UPS deliveries before and after the murders,
  narrowed the vehicle search to 2011 - 2013 Elantras
• In late November, Washington State University campus police looked through their records and ID'd
  BK's 2015 Elantra
• By the morning of December 19, investigators ID'd BK as a POI.
• BK's cell-phone records were pulled on 12/23; his phone was moving around in the
  early morning hours of 11/13, but was disconnected from cell networks (possibly turned off) during the hours when the homicides occurred
• Trash collected from BK's family residence matched DNA from "a close family relative" to
  the DNA found on the knife sheath

Much of the above is what we already know; however, I find the dates interesting.

Inside the Hunt for the Idaho Killer

For me, this pretty much confirms that BK truly wasn’t a person of interest until the lead (the family tree) they got back on 12/19. That’s multiple sources now.

Edit: just to add. If he’s ultimately found guilty he’ll spend the rest of his living days wondering “what if” on that sheath.

 

[maconrich]

For me, this pretty much confirms that BK truly wasn’t a person of interest until the lead (the family tree) they got back on 12/19. That’s multiple sources now.

Edit: just to add. If he’s ultimately found guilty he’ll spend the rest of his living days wondering “what if” on that sheath.

So 12/19 instead of 11/29? Makes more sense IMHO

from the PCA which seems to imply (?) id was made 11/29

 

[schooling]

So 12/19 instead of 11/29? Makes more sense IMHO

from the PCA which seems to imply (?) id was made 11/29

It implies in the article that he wasn’t prioritized at that point because his car was out of the year range.

I will say though, the PCA does take care in including the law enforcement officer’s note of BKs bushy eye brows.

 

[wary]

Respectfully, can you provide a case example? I am seriously confused by this request for an extension. Either you have an alibi, or you don’t. What am I missing here?

I think the defense is looking for a possible alibi that won’t be contradicted by the evidence that the prosecution has collected. That’s going to take a lot of time and work—it’s nothing like just saying: “I was in such and such a place, doing such and such a thing.”

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

It implies in the article that he wasn’t prioritized at that point because his car was out of the year range.

I will say though, the PCA does take care in including the law enforcement officer’s note of BKs bushy eye brows.

Agree.

Minority opinion back then, IIRC, but the fact that the PCA was mute about when the model year range was expanded while being specific about so much else spoke volumes to me. MOO, as always.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Agree.

Minority opinion back then, IIRC, but the fact that the PCA was mute about when the model year range was expanded while being specific about so much else spoke volumes to me. MOO, as always.

Agreed. If the NYT piece is accurate, I think it was a significant error on the state's/LE side and will be a big deal at trial. JMO

 

[Balthazar]

I think the defense is looking for a possible alibi that won’t be contradicted by the evidence that the prosecution has collected. That’s going to take a lot of time and work—it’s nothing like just saying: “I was in such and such a place, doing such and such a thing.”

Correct. The defense also has to read all of the prosecution's discovery and find and present EVIDENCE that supports the defendant's alibi and actually prove he was somewhere else. They cannot just claim he was somewhere else. They have to prove it.

 

[AusLaw]

Respectfully, can you provide a case example? I am seriously confused by this request for an extension. Either you have an alibi, or you don’t. What am I missing here?

You really aren't missing anything here at all as it can become extremely complex if you don't have a witness who can put you at a certain place at a certain time which is anywhere other than the crime scene and be corroborated by either an additional witness and/or digital evidence.

But the notion that you either have an alibi or you don't isn't correct until either can be proven as fact.

An example of an alibi without a witness could be as follows.

The defendant has been charged with a crime allegedly committed on King Road, Moscow, Idaho between 4:00 AM and 4:25 AM.
The defendant claims to have been running at the Arboretum and Botanical Garden, Moscow, Idaho at the time of the alleged offense which is roughly 1 mile from the scene of the crime, but since the defendant was alone during his run, there are no witnesses to corroborate their alibi, so the defendant must use other means of evidence to support their claim.

Digital Evidence: If the defendant uses a fitness tracking app on his smartphone or smartwatch, it might have recorded their run. This data could provide a timestamped route that proves they were at the Arboretum and Botanical Garden during the time of the alleged offense.

Surveillance Footage: The Arboretum and Botanical Garden or surrounding areas might have surveillance cameras that recorded the defendant during their run.

Physical Evidence: If the defendant made a purchase at or near the Arboretum and Botanical Garden before, during, or after their run, a receipt could serve as evidence.

As you can see, there are multiple examples of an alibi, the biggest problem would be the defendant convincing a jury about said alibi.

As i stated above, an alibi without a corroborating witness can become quite complex.

And this complexity can potentially result in a judge granting an exception to the defendant for any of the requirements of Notice of defense of alibi