4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

[Sundog]

A DP trial means that the defendant has DP qualified attorneys and certain specific DP Motions need to be filed and considered by the judge. Expect to see many of these Motions filed by the defense. If you think there are alot of Motions now, you haven't seen anything yet.

A DP trial requires a special DP qualified jury, the process for picking a jury is longer and more rigorous.
The jurors understand that this is a DP case and this knowledge can make them even more skeptical about the evidence presented against the defendant. However, proponents against the DP cite studies that have shown a DP jury is more likely to convict.

So Kohberger will go to trial under the DP. His trial will be a DP trial.

But it won't be until the sentencing trial where BK would learn his fate. All 12 jurors must vote for death and if even one juror votes against death then the judge will sentence him to LWOP.

<modsnip>

2 Cents

The Idaho law's instructions to the jury for a capital case say that the judge must tell the sentencing jury the following:

"If the jury decides that the defandant will not be sentenced to death, the judge will sentence the defendant to a term of life imprisonment, during which the defendant could not be paroled for at least ten years and possibly for life."



ICJI 1702 (source)

 

[Sundog]

They're all valid and they might even add a few others, down the road.
He does indeed have a propensity for these kinds of things.
A normal slasher would have stopped at one..

(I really want to know what they found on his computers)

The aggravating factors have to be stipulated before the trial begins, according to Idaho law, as I understand it.

 

[kittythehare]

The aggravating factors have to be stipulated before the trial begins, according to Idaho law, as I understand it.

They have time.

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Prosecutors to seek death penalty against Bryan Kohberger

The announcement comes days after Kohberger's defense filed a document saying no DNA belonging to the victims was found in his car, apartment or office.

lawandcrime.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

The glove is allowed to be talked about. It's the source's reporting that isn't. The glove is part of the official judicial record and is fair game, IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

The Idaho law's instructions to the jury for a capital case say that the judge must tell the sentencing jury the following:

"If the jury decides that the defandant will not be sentenced to death, the judge will sentence the defendant to a term of life imprisonment, during which the defendant could not be paroled for at least ten years and possibly for life."



ICJI 1702 (source)

You forgot this part:

If a jury, or the court if a jury is waived, finds a statutory aggravating circumstance beyond a reasonable doubt but finds that the imposition of the death penalty would be unjust, the court shall impose a fixed life sentence.

Section 18-4004 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[Sundog]

You forgot this part:

If a jury, or the court if a jury is waived, finds a statutory aggravating circumstance beyond a reasonable doubt but finds that the imposition of the death penalty would be unjust, the court shall impose a fixed life sentence.

Section 18-4004 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Glad to see this!
Thanks.

 

[TL4S]

I totally understand that the act of him stabbing four people to death is more than enough, and witnesses aren't reliable, etc., but this does bring me back to the whole, "I'm going to help you" thing, and how that statement has always seemed so warped and representative of BK's mindset at the time, imo. I've linked a simple one page description that is very helpful in understanding at least one of the listed aggravating factors.

https://isc.idaho.gov/jury/criminal/1700/ICJI_1713.doc

A murder is especially heinous if it is extremely wicked or shockingly evil. “Atrocious” means outrageously wicked and vile.

“Cruel” means designed to inflict a high degree of pain with utter indifference to, or even enjoyment of, the suffering of others.

.....

It might be thought that every murder involves depravity. However, exceptional depravity exists only where depravity is apparent to such an extent as to obviously offend all standards of morality and intelligence. The terms “especially heinous manifesting exceptional depravity,” “especially atrocious manifesting exceptional depravity,” or “especially cruel manifesting exceptional depravity” focus upon a defendant’s state of mind at the time of the offense, as reflected by his words and acts.

 

[Counttrarian]

First of all, here’s what the ‘genetic profile, (whatever that means,)’ means

Thanks for the well thought out reply. I was being a little tongue in cheek when I wrote "whatever that means". The point is we don't know precisely how the genetic profile was created and it's purpose. One can presume they were using apillary electrophoresis to detect STR alleles to match against a couple of the larger public genealogy dbs but those are the type of details the defenses imho is entitled to know. (There's variance as to its use, one interesting example is of Parabon Nanolabs who back in the day who was trying to create composites of how what a persons face looked like based on DNA profiles iirc).

If you're into the science of it and some concerns, (the journal) Nature is a good read:
Forensics, DNA Fingerprinting, and CODIS.

ParaNano (which may be who the FBI turned to?) has fairly good explanation behind what they do:

Genetic Genealogy - Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service

snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com

 

[Muddy K]

@OnaZgSleuth, thanks for your really interesting post.

(BBM) "It has been widely reported that on the night of the murders, DM heard the male voice of a killer say 'It's okay, I'm here to help you'. It has always been so strange to me."

Per the PCA: "D.M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's okay, I'm going to help you."

Like you, I have continued to be disturbed and haunted by those two sentences from the Probable Cause Affidavit. I don't think I'm ever going to forget them, because they ring so true. I believe they capture the voice of the killer. And that caused me to believe that Xana Kernodle may have been the only one of those four young people to realize what was happening and/or about to happen. And that is heartbreaking.

(BBM) "Because how would that even work?"

I think intuition is a valid tool, and I respect yours. Here's what mine told me. From the moment I read those two sentences, I believed that DM had heard the killer. Why? Because of the simple, banal, self-serving and self-soothing depravity of such a statement.

Consider that whomever was crying was likely already mortally wounded, certainly in shock, able to do little more than whimper or cry, and maybe with no personal awareness of doing either. I believe that person was Xana Kernodle.

Xana Kernodle Fought Back

From the killer's perspective, he had already killed two young women on the floor above. He had now attacked another young woman and a young man and he had reason to believe both of them were dead, because he intended to kill. But suddenly came a sound, crying. In a vexing instant, the adrenaline-intoxicated killer realized that one victim was still somehow alive. He could have left, but he did not. Instead, he had it get it right. He chose to placate the mortally-wounded Xana for a fleeting few seconds with words people use everyday, with children, strangers, friends, and then stab her again, stab her to certain death.

Murderers do this. Murderers of this ilk are only about themselves, first and last. I absolutely believe he thinks he convinced her, too, just long enough to silence her for good.

My opinion only, my intuition only.

 

[Balthazar]

With this development (Prosecution to seek death penalty, as expected) tomorrow should a very interesting day.

IMO, the defense is entitled to know who, where, when and how the genetic profile was created. They should be able to see exactly how the profile was developed and why it pointed to BK. Otherwise this will become a huge issue if BK is found guilty and will tie this case up in appeals extensively. If the prosecution is to get the jury to vote for the death penalty (knowing only what was in the PCA and what Anne Taylor wrote about there being no other evidence tying BK to the victims), the DNA profile must pass the test of scrutiny.

 

[TL4S]

@OnaZgSleuth, thanks for your really interesting post.

(BBM) "It has been widely reported that on the night of the murders, DM heard the male voice of a killer say 'It's okay, I'm here to help you'. It has always been so strange to me."

Per the PCA: "D.M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's okay, I'm going to help you."

Like you, I have continued to be disturbed and haunted by those two sentences from the Probable Cause Affidavit. I don't think I'm ever going to forget them, because they ring so true. I believe they capture the voice of the killer. And that caused me to believe that Xana Kernodle may have been the only one of those four young people to realize what was happening and/or about to happen. And that is heartbreaking.

(BBM) "Because how would that even work?"

I think intuition is a valid tool, and I respect yours. Here's what mine told me. From the moment I read those two sentences, I believed that DM had heard the killer. Why? Because of the simple, banal, self-serving and self-soothing depravity of such a statement.

Consider that whomever was crying was likely already mortally wounded, certainly in shock, able to do little more than whimper or cry, and maybe with no personal awareness of doing either. I believe that person was Xana Kernodle.

Xana Kernodle Fought Back

From the killer's perspective, he had already killed two young women on the floor above. He had now attacked another young woman and a young man and he had reason to believe both of them were dead, because he intended to kill. But suddenly came a sound, crying. In a vexing instant, the adrenaline-intoxicated killer realized that one victim was still somehow alive. He could have left, but he did not. Instead, he had it get it right. He chose to placate the mortally-wounded Xana for a fleeting few seconds with words people use everyday, with children, strangers, friends, and then stab her again, stab her to certain death.

Murderers do this. Murderers of this ilk are only about themselves, first and last. I absolutely believe he thinks he convinced her, too, just long enough to silence her for good.

My opinion only, my intuition only.

Yeah, it is definitely haunting. To me, it was almost like mortally wounding a deer with your car and then telling them you're going to "help" them, meaning putting them out of their misery by ultimately killing them. Except in this case, it just added to his power to hurt, and cause fear, and I don't think it was likely meant to be soothing at all. It's like a freaking horror movie. That's just my take, but I'm wholly into thinking he was demented that morning, and reading these aggravated factors makes me all the more inclined to think he went into that house intending to destroy multiple people.

 

[al66pine]

BK's Father as Poss. Witness in Sentencing Phase?

I wonder if the father of BK would be allowed to testify as a witness for BK at the sentencing trial, if we get that far. I am sure that AT will put witnesses on the stand at the sentencing hearing who will present mitigating factors in relation to BK. And according to Idaho law regarding death penalty cases, the sentencing jury is allowed to hear the evidence and have compassion or sympathy for the defendant and the jury member can weigh this in relation....

snipped for focus @Sundog Thx for you post w "Death Penalty Sentencing Instructions (ICJI 1700)."
I'm curious about the reason for the question in your post.
Have you read/heard something that suggests BK's Father would not be allowed to testify in sentencing phase?

Or that he could testify to a compellingly sympathetic bit of background re BK? Overcoming a personal obstacle, such as a usually-fatal illness/injury? Rescuing a family & puppy from a burning house? Or IDK-what.

Or are you thinking about def. team just wanting to put a relative on the stand to "humanize" him in a general way?

Or to appeal to jury members as parents, by explaining how they "tried to raise him right, had no clue that he could be violent," etc?

Just curious about your Q, if you have time to respond.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for the well thought out reply. I was being a little tongue in cheek when I wrote "whatever that means". The point is we don't know precisely how the genetic profile was created and it's purpose. One can presume they were using apillary electrophoresis to detect STR alleles to match against a couple of the larger public genealogy dbs but those are the type of details the defenses imho is entitled to know. (There's variance as to its use, one interesting example is of Parabon Nanolabs who back in the day who was trying to create composites of how what a persons face looked like based on DNA profiles iirc).

If you're into the science of it and some concerns, (the journal) Nature is a good read:
Forensics, DNA Fingerprinting, and CODIS.

ParaNano (which may be who the FBI turned to?) has fairly good explanation behind what they do:

Genetic Genealogy - Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service

snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com

HA!

Interesting, I don't know what it means but.....interesting.

"apillary electrophoresis to detect STR alleles"

 

[kittythehare]

HA!

Interesting, I don't know what it means but.....interesting.

"apillary electrophoresis to detect STR alleles"

Validation of STR typing by capillary electrophoresis - PubMed

With the use of capillary electrophoresis (CE), high-resolution electrophoretic separation of short tandem repeat (STR) loci can be achieved in a semiautomated fashion. Laser-induced detection of fluorescently labeled PCR products and multicolor analysis enable the rapid generation of multilocus...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Nila Aella]

It's not complicated and this is a very simple article.
@10ofRods will explain it much better.

How DNA Profiling Works

If you were thrown into prison for a crime you didn't commit, you'd probably welcome DNA profiling. Although the use of this technology has recently helped bring justice, there may be cause for concern.

science.howstuffworks.com

I understand the method used to develop a SNP.
I do not understand why it has to be kept secret from the defense. Why ask for a protective order and balk at giving the requested discovery?
I am more interested in the sequence of events and how they relate to the investigation:
The D deserves to know the sequence of events, why they ocurred in that sequence, and how it relates to what else was going on in the investigation at that time. Why did the fbi stop the lab ( a lab that is known for doing great work with genealogy) and decide to do it themselves? When did that happen? Were they just focusing on BK or pursuing other leads. Once the fbi received the snp did they load it up and go directly to a kohberger relative? Or did they proceed normally, not knowing where it would lead and narrow it down to multiple individuals and give LE a tip about each individual? Did LE pursue each individual? Was there only one tip? Did they have Kohberger in their sites at the time? How long did the family tree take to complete? Is it the normal amount of time it usually takes?
IMO the method is important, the process is important, the sequence of events is important, how it relates to the entire investigation is important.
IMO this should not be hidden from the defense.

 

[schooling]

Yeah, it is definitely haunting. To me, it was almost like mortally wounding a deer with your car and then telling them you're going to "help" them, meaning putting them out of their misery by ultimately killing them. Except in this case, it just added to his power to hurt, and cause fear, and I don't think it was likely meant to be soothing at all. It's like a freaking horror movie. That's just my take, but I'm wholly into thinking he was demented that morning, and reading these aggravated factors makes me all the more inclined to think he went into that house intending to destroy multiple people.

IMO he had memorized lines to use while inside. To both confuse, momentarily paralyze (prevent screaming), and torment the victims.

I think the Reddit questionnaire (reportedly) and other research he was doing supports this line of thinking.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO he had memorized lines to use while inside. To both confuse, momentarily paralyze (prevent screaming), and torment the victims.

I think the Reddit questionnaire (reportedly) and other research he was doing supports this line of thinking.

MOO

I always though it was because Xana or Ethan were aware of him and he lied to keep them under his control.
DM's room was on their floor.

 

[Chloegirl]

I understand the method used to develop a SNP.
I do not understand why it has to be kept secret from the defense. Why ask for a protective order and balk at giving the requested discovery?
I am more interested in the sequence of events and how they relate to the investigation:
The D deserves to know the sequence of events, why they ocurred in that sequence, and how it relates to what else was going on in the investigation at that time. Why did the fbi stop the lab ( a lab that is known for doing great work with genealogy) and decide to do it themselves? When did that happen? Were they just focusing on BK or pursuing other leads. Once the fbi received the snp did they load it up and go directly to a kohberger relative? Or did they proceed normally, not knowing where it would lead and narrow it down to multiple individuals and give LE a tip about each individual? Did LE pursue each individual? Was there only one tip? Did they have Kohberger in their sites at the time? How long did the family tree take to complete? Is it the normal amount of time it usually takes?
IMO the method is important, the process is important, the sequence of events is important, how it relates to the entire investigation is important.
IMO this should not be hidden from the defense.

If we are worried about his family tree (the preparation of which could be say described/shared) and it is given to the Defense (not protected), I assume it becomes public record. So what, now his entire family tree is hounded by the media forever. Is this the concern???

 

[Cool Cats]

If we are worried about his family tree (the preparation of wich could be say described/shared) and it is given to the Defense (not protected), I assume it becomes public record. So what, now his entire family tree is hounded by the media forever. Is this the concern???

The prosecution says in the Motion they want to protect the identities of all the family tree relatives.

Trying to find it but there are so many Motions.

2 Cents

 

[Chloegirl]

The prosecution says in the Motion they want to protect the identities of all the family tree relatives.

Trying to find it but there are so many motions.

Right, so sharing their methodology would fix the issue if described in sequence and it was deemed transparent. Perhaps that occurs next/tomorrow. JMOO