4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[Helechawagirl]

He was driving more than 40 miles per night, so he was doing more than just driving around campus.

Scouting dump sites?

 

[10ofRods]

Scouting dump sites?

'
I was thinking maybe he got interested in the In Cold Blood story. Same overall MO (enter house of strangers, kill everyone).

It's a case that most criminologists study and find useful - because the two people who committed that crime almost got away with it. Fix a couple of errors and...the perfect crime?? I think that was part of his motivation. Like a quest. Probably not consciously aware that he was actually going to commit a crime, most of the time, but constantly thinking and getting very amped up about a potentially perfect crime (I keep in mind that this is a person whose writings complain of feeling nothing, inability to feel).

It's also a crime that changed American history (like Ted Bundy, like the Oklahoma City Bombings, like 9/11). I know the Cold Blood case doesn't seem remarkable or huge now, in 2023, but it sure was big back in 1959 (IIRC) and became even bigger after the book was written. It was probably the most famous crime in American history at that time - this was before the Manson Family.

IMO.

 

[Balthazar]

Yah, that's enough mileage to go back and forth to Moscow.

Pullman and Moscow are only 9.3 miles apart.

 

[Charlot123]

It probably does. I've read some writings by people with VSS and the way they describe it, the "snow" really does look as if it's coming down in between the eye and whatever one is looking at. Just like real snow. So, for Kohberger, driving is always like driving in a snowstorm. Some report that the snow is sometimes lighter than other times.

He may have learned to cope with this by following whatever is in front of him. I assume the trucks were in the truck lane or at least one of two slow lanes. Trucks are big and easy to follow. They don't make sudden lane changes (usually).

But to impatient Kohberger, they also need to go faster. Trucks do slow down on hills (even slight ones) if they are carrying cargo. Then they go faster on the downhill. This is why most sedan drivers do not like following them closely. If Kohberger was tailgating in order to send the eternal message of the road (GO FASTER!), it was socially unaware to do so to...a big truck.

I've also thought about how a big truck followed closely fills the entire visual field (one cannot see around the big truck and if that truck slams into something, there will be no warning). VERY unsafe. Quite nice of those officers not to ticket him, IMO. (I do believe there's something else going on in this story, but I don't know exactly what).

I am not sure that he still has visual snow now. He posted about it, if he did, a long time ago. Do we know that he still has it? He might simply be a klutzy driver.

 

[Helechawagirl]

I have to say that websleuths is such a good place for sane discourse. I read this bizarre theory today that BK saw the perks leaving the house and went in to help but thought the perps were coming back so left thinking the roommates would call 911 and went back when it seemed they hadn’t and still didn’t call the police. I mean I can’t even believe they can verbalize such twisted theories.

I’ve also been meaning to ask if anyone else thinks that Buger King’s BK commercial makes them think of BKohberger. It just hits weird every time I hear it. JMO

 

[ktm44]

I am not sure that he still has visual snow now. He posted about it, if he did, a long time ago. Do we know that he still has it? He might simply be a klutzy driver.

Do we know he ever had it? Eary on, someone came up with something they felt was an old email address belonging to BK and came up the old posts in a discussion group. The poster seemed to be the right age and it was eventually accepted as fact with no confirmation that I'm aware of that came from family or close friends.

It may very well have been him but I'm also reminded of an old phrase, 'so much cooler online.'

 

[schooling]

Or he was taking trips to see Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, San. Francisco, etc whenever he had a couple of days off And racking up the mileage that way. Since he was from the North East part of the countries it’s entirely possible he wanted to see the west coast while he was in WA.

edited to add, or maybe he wanted to visit all his favorite serial killer sites, Washington had a lot of them and California as well.

But those are not equivalent comparisons. We have absolutely 0 evidence to support any of those sight seeing trips. Literally none.

On the other hand we know...
- BK went to school in Pullman
- BK like other college students may have done a pre-application visit to tour the campus
- UofW, like other colleges/universities commonly have student out to visit prior to their first day
- Dateline heavily speculated that he may have made the visit prior to moving
- The mileage in his CARFAX supports cross country trips

A lot of the theories I've seen supporting BK are being presented based on no evidence. The defense hasn't even provided any beyond "he likes to drive at night" which leaves all of North and South America as potential places of travel. So if SF and Portand...why not Mexico and Argentina via the Pan-American highway?

 

[Cool Cats]

Pullman and Moscow are only 9.3 miles apart.

Right, like I said, plenty of miles to drive all over Moscow and find alternative routes back.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Do we know he ever had it? Eary on, someone came up with something they felt was an old email address belonging to BK and came up the old posts in a discussion group. The poster seemed to be the right age and it was eventually accepted as fact with no confirmation that I'm aware of that came from family or close friends.

It may very well have been him but I'm also reminded of an old phrase, 'so much cooler online.'

Good points.

For me, unless/until I see a contemporaneous formal dx from a qualified medical professional, it's just churn.

Even if the email address was somehow verified to have belonged to BK, I'd still want proof of a formal VSS dx -- I have zero reason to trust BK. Although if those were BK's writings, they are certainly interesting about what was going in his mind at that time in his life, even without a formal dx, MOO.

MOO, kids that age (and not just kids, tbf) have been turning to Dr. Google for as long as Dr. Google has been around to try to self-diagnose and/or make sense of real or perceived symptoms.

 

[schooling]

Do we know he ever had it? Eary on, someone came up with something they felt was an old email address belonging to BK and came up the old posts in a discussion group. The poster seemed to be the right age and it was eventually accepted as fact with no confirmation that I'm aware of that came from family or close friends.

It may very well have been him but I'm also reminded of an old phrase, 'so much cooler online.'

It's gone beyond just "someone". Multiple legitimate outlets independently (non AP) reported on it. Including the NYTimes who spoke to friends and reported...

Thomas Arntz, a former high school friend of Kohberger's, told The New York Times that Kohberger frequently talked about issues with his vision.

"I know it was something that really bugged him," Arntz told the outlet. "He was basically to the point where he was neurotic about it."

To which the Idahostatesman (off the back of the NYTimes) also spoke to Thomas

“He would talk about it, like, all the time,” Thomas Arntz, a former friend of Koberger’s in high school, told the Idaho Statesman in a phone interview. “The word that comes to mind is that he was neurotic about it, and talked about it relentlessly. I guess it truly bothered him to no end.”

Added to that list is NBC News via the Dateline episode "The Killings on King Road" and ABC News in their "The King Road Killings" series where they explicitly link his SoundCloud and Tapatalk accounts and mention that the accounts were confirmed by ABC News to be Bryan's.

If you're waiting for his family member and/or friend to explicitly confirm the accounts themselves as belonging to BK. You're probably going to be waiting for a long time. How many people share accounts like these with families and friends? Accounts that confess that they feel absolutely nothing for them... They don't. Which is why sites like Reddit have the concept of 'Throwaway' accounts where you can afford to be more honest.

Edit: Just being mindful of @North_Idaho_Nony excellent post. Which I didn't see until after I posted mine. I'm not arguing that BK definitely had VSS. I'm just making the argument that it's most likely his account.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Do we know he ever had it? Eary on, someone came up with something they felt was an old email address belonging to BK and came up the old posts in a discussion group. The poster seemed to be the right age and it was eventually accepted as fact with no confirmation that I'm aware of that came from family or close friends.

It may very well have been him but I'm also reminded of an old phrase, 'so much cooler online.'

To be honest, it feels like we know a lot about Brian Kohberger, but it doesn't mean we know Brian Kohberger. He makes news, and news make money, so i take everything with a grain of salt.

Here is a good example, Pappa Rodgers.

Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

Former FBI investigator Jennifer Coffindaffer suggested that suspect Bryan Kohberger joined social media discussion groups about the Idaho murders.

www.dailymail.co.uk

(I never believed BK posted in these groups, tbh.) Now, several months later, the theory dissolved like a smoke. But, it seems that syndicated experts were supporting it.

Same with VSS. My biggest issue is inability to say what it is, so I don't know if BK had it or what he had.

Is it Irlen syndrome? What is Irlen Syndrome?.

Many vision specialists support this diagnosis, others don't. But could be, IMHO.

Or was it some form of migraine with aura? Or something else?

(The problem is, cortical visual analyzer is so complex that it might take scientists years to sort things out. And if the accused it guilty, it won't help us understand why the heck he killed four people).

 

[Charlot123]

It's gone beyond just "someone". Multiple legitimate outlets independently (non AP) reported on it. Including the NYTimes who spoke to friends and reported...

To which the Idahostatesman (off the back of the NYTimes) also spoke to Thomas


Added to that list is NBC News via the Dateline episode "The Killings on King Road" and ABC News in their "The King Road Killings" series where they explicitly link his SoundCloud and Tapatalk accounts and mention that the accounts were confirmed by ABC News to be Bryan's.

If you're waiting for his family member and/or friend to explicitly confirm the accounts themselves as belonging to BK. You're probably going to be waiting for a long time. How many people share accounts like these with families and friends? Accounts that confess that they feel absolutely nothing for them... They don't. Which is why sites like Reddit have the concept of 'Throwaway' accounts where you can afford to be more honest.

Edit: Just being mindful of @North_Idaho_Nony excellent post. Which I didn't see until after I posted mine. I'm not arguing that BK definitely had VSS. I'm just making the argument that it's most likely his account.

MOO

So he had issues with vision. It doesn't explain much. He has unusual eyes. Was it thyroid ophthalmopathy? Was it some type of focal seizures? Perceptual disorder? Ophthalmoplegic migraine? We really have no idea. Chances are, it had nothing to do with murders.

Decades ago, for two years I had something akin to visual snow, accompanied by dizziness and a heavy sensation in my head. What made me go to my primary care doctor instead of an opthalmologist and the doctor, to send his rather young female patient to carotid ultrasound beats me. (Perhaps not: I noticed that the symptoms occurred more when I was driving; and, I had the best PCP ever). Long story short, I happened to have anatomically long carotid arteries. Each time I'd sharply turn the head, decrease in blood flow in them would cause this experience. (You turn the head often when you are driving. I bought the biggest car mirror and it helped. Today, we have radars and gadgets, so it doesn't happen.)

So - anyone can have unusual symptoms, but unless it is confirmed, diagnosed and explained by a good specialist, we really can't assume anything. BK probably didn't have a good doctor in his schoolyears.

ETA. Another person I know, a male, was feeling something similar for ages. Felt very depressed as no one could explain it. A string of doctors guided him to a specialist who diagnosed him with pseudotumor cerebrii, increased intracranial pressure. The trick is that it usually happens in young obese women, not middle-aged thin men, and manifests differently. Go guess. What I want to say, visual snow is most likely not a single disease and while I know that BK was not OK, because of his actions, it is impossible to understand what he had as a kid.

 

[Charlot123]

'
I was thinking maybe he got interested in the In Cold Blood story. Same overall MO (enter house of strangers, kill everyone).

It's a case that most criminologists study and find useful - because the two people who committed that crime almost got away with it. Fix a couple of errors and...the perfect crime?? I think that was part of his motivation. Like a quest. Probably not consciously aware that he was actually going to commit a crime, most of the time, but constantly thinking and getting very amped up about a potentially perfect crime (I keep in mind that this is a person whose writings complain of feeling nothing, inability to feel).

It's also a crime that changed American history (like Ted Bundy, like the Oklahoma City Bombings, like 9/11). I know the Cold Blood case doesn't seem remarkable or huge now, in 2023, but it sure was big back in 1959 (IIRC) and became even bigger after the book was written. It was probably the most famous crime in American history at that time - this was before the Manson Family.

IMO.

Yesterday I read, to my shame, for the first time, about mystery murder weekends. I noticed there are some constantly running in Poconos mountains. What if he "staged" his own and left some clues?

Just a theory, and probably, wrong.

 

[Charlot123]

But those are not equivalent comparisons. We have absolutely 0 evidence to support any of those sight seeing trips. Literally none.

On the other hand we know...
- BK went to school in Pullman
- BK like other college students may have done a pre-application visit to tour the campus
- UofW, like other colleges/universities commonly have student out to visit prior to their first day
- Dateline heavily speculated that he may have made the visit prior to moving
- The mileage in his CARFAX supports cross country trips

A lot of the theories I've seen supporting BK are being presented based on no evidence. The defense hasn't even provided any beyond "he likes to drive at night" which leaves all of North and South America as potential places of travel. So if SF and Portand...why not Mexico and Argentina via the Pan-American highway?

To be honest, when I saw his photo for the first time, I was not surprised. I expected someone like this. But, it is just the feeling. Now the court has to prove it really beyond reasonable doubt, and I hope Idaho will do a good job. I have lost any hope about another case, but Idaho has resources and education and I hope they won't leave any questions unanswered.

 

[maskedwoman]

I am not sure that he still has visual snow now. He posted about it, if he did, a long time ago. Do we know that he still has it? He might simply be a klutzy driver.

Your question made me curious so off I went to do some research. VSS is rare, affecting around 2% of the population. Some people are born with it, God bless them, but head trauma, a really severe infection or illness, and illegal drug use are also triggers for VSS. It does not go away on its own and is also unlikely to improve without treatment, although sufferers may become better able to cope with the symptoms over time.

One source I found said treatments for it are generally either antiepileptics or antidepressants but Mayo Clinic said it can't be treated, and they offer visual therapy and some kind of filter therapy to help people read and otherwise function with it. Cleveland Clinic also said there is no standard treatment for it but some medications are being researched. One medication being tested is an anti-seizure drug and antidepressants are often prescribed to treat mental health affects of having the disease.

What Is Visual Snow, and Does It Go Away? – NVISION Eye Centers

Visual snow can be debilitating. It is a neurological disorder that is characterized by flickering dots and disturbances that can take up the entire visual field. Visual snow may be treated with medications.

www.nvisioncenters.com

Visual Snow FAQ - Matthewrenze

On Feb 7, 2014, I went to sleep with a mild headache but otherwise was in good health. When I woke up the next day, I experienced a series of strange visual, auditory, and tactile symptoms that I later learned were called Visual Snow Syndrome. I spent several months going from doctor to doctor...

matthewrenze.com

Mayo Clinic Minute: Visual snow - Mayo Clinic News Network

Visual snow, or visual static, is an uncommon neurological condition that affects around 2% of the population.

newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org

Visual Snow Syndrome (Static Vision)

With visual snow syndrome, you see static whether your eyes are open or shut. Learn more about what it's like looking through a shaken snow globe.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Charlot123]

Your question made me curious so off I went to do some research. VSS is rare, affecting around 2% of the population. Some people are born with it, God bless them, but head trauma, a really severe infection or illness, and illegal drug use are also triggers for VSS. It does not go away on its own and is also unlikely to improve without treatment, although sufferers may become better able to cope with the symptoms over time.

One source I found said treatments for it are generally either antiepileptics or antidepressants but Mayo Clinic said it can't be treated, and they offer visual therapy and some kind of filter therapy to help people read and otherwise function with it. Cleveland Clinic also said there is no standard treatment for it but some medications are being researched. One medication being tested is an anti-seizure drug and antidepressants are often prescribed to treat mental health affects of having the disease.

What Is Visual Snow, and Does It Go Away? – NVISION Eye Centers

Visual snow can be debilitating. It is a neurological disorder that is characterized by flickering dots and disturbances that can take up the entire visual field. Visual snow may be treated with medications.

www.nvisioncenters.com

Visual Snow FAQ - Matthewrenze

On Feb 7, 2014, I went to sleep with a mild headache but otherwise was in good health. When I woke up the next day, I experienced a series of strange visual, auditory, and tactile symptoms that I later learned were called Visual Snow Syndrome. I spent several months going from doctor to doctor...

matthewrenze.com

Mayo Clinic Minute: Visual snow - Mayo Clinic News Network

Visual snow, or visual static, is an uncommon neurological condition that affects around 2% of the population.

newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org

Visual Snow Syndrome (Static Vision)

With visual snow syndrome, you see static whether your eyes are open or shut. Learn more about what it's like looking through a shaken snow globe.

my.clevelandclinic.org

(Some of these pictures are what I saw, only I saw "visual stars" and it ended up having to do with very peculiar anatomy of carotid arteries, nothing to do with vision at all. But then, I had no psychiatric symptoms, either, just fear when I happened).

I can already link these symptoms to five different conditions. I think it remains "visual snow" when no better diagnosis can be offered.

(Interesting that antiseizure medications help. Recently Lamotrigine has been found to have benefits in OCD, but it is "btw".)

The problem with BK the way I see it, we have no information from his doctors. PCP, neurologist, opthalmologist, psychiatrist, maybe ENT. No blood work, and he was a vegetarian. Iron, B12... so we can't tie up his complaints to anything except for say that "something was, probably, wrong with him".

I hope BK is being tested. Post-Covid, we see more depression, more problematic behavior. There is more need in prevention, and for this, we should know more. The Idaho four cannot be helped, and the same is true for BK. But maybe, for some young children, help is available? We need to learn.

 

[Boxer]

Do we know he ever had it? Eary on, someone came up with something they felt was an old email address belonging to BK and came up the old posts in a discussion group. The poster seemed to be the right age and it was eventually accepted as fact with no confirmation that I'm aware of that came from family or close friends.

It may very well have been him but I'm also reminded of an old phrase, 'so much cooler online.'

MOO as a teen he came up with visual snow to excuse his staring at women. MOO the VS is BS.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO as a teen he came up with cisula snow to excise his staring at women. MOO the VS is BS.

Very well could be Boxer. I put nothing past BK. If you've read the 'supposed' posts by him, he's arrogant and argumentative even then. He needs to be the smartest person wherever he is, no matter the situation.

BK has a very bad temper I think, and has for quite awhile.

MOO

 

[Pyrite]

But those are not equivalent comparisons. We have absolutely 0 evidence to support any of those sight seeing trips. Literally none.

On the other hand we know...
- BK went to school in Pullman
- BK like other college students may have done a pre-application visit to tour the campus
- UofW, like other colleges/universities commonly have student out to visit prior to their first day
- Dateline heavily speculated that he may have made the visit prior to moving
- The mileage in his CARFAX supports cross country trips

A lot of the theories I've seen supporting BK are being presented based on no evidence. The defense hasn't even provided any beyond "he likes to drive at night" which leaves all of North and South America as potential places of travel. So if SF and Portand...why not Mexico and Argentina via the Pan-American highway?

I was offering another explanation of his mileage besides the person I replied to saying ’He was driving more than 40 miles per night, so he was doing more than just driving around campus.’ We really have no evidence of how he put the mileage on his car that I know of.

 

[10ofRods]

And IMO, BK does have VSS. I find his TapATalk messages convincing, but beyond that, as I've become more familiar with VSS, I think it explains a great deal about him (including the heroin). He was on the right drugs for it, knew the dosages, and had clearly seen a specialist to get put on those medicines.

There are some writers with VSS who have written short stories about the experience and it is really one of the peculiar neurological disorders (Oliver Sacks level of unusualness).

I'm not even sure he stares just at women. He stares at the two Indiana policemen. He stares around the courtroom. He's not big on blinking (which is an adaptation that people with VSS use - they need more visual information and go longer without blinking). We may never know for sure whether he has it, as it may not be an issue at trial (I don't see how it could come in, except maybe in the penalty phase). He isn't asking for care or treatment for it. I think he thinks he "cured" it in himself by making enormous changes in his lifestyle and coping mechanisms (he still sees the snow, but has tried to root out some of the other symptoms - which I think probably still plague him).

He's just generally very intense, completely trapped inside his own head, and cannot make friendly contact with others (regardless of their sex or gender). I think he dislikes women.

VSS is neither here nor there in terms of his criminal situation. It's just interesting to me that some elements of the crime strike me as belonging a certain group of neuropsychiatric group of symptoms, which would include his inability to understand or have compassion for others.