4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[DeDee]

And just also happened to be out and about on the morning of 11/13 and thought fun to drive by the out of the way 1122 Kings Rd house in a neighborhood that can only be accessed by the single road Taylor.

Partial screenshot of the original image. Oops! There it is.
A white car was captured in the background of a Fox News report the afternoon of Nov. 13, hours after Kohberger allegedly killed the four students.
FOX News Digital
Mystery white car spotted near Idaho crime scene day after student killings

 

[Balthazar]

Okay. He was not at the library. He has said under oath through his attorney that he was out driving around alone and this is why no one can vouch for him. Out driving alone. Not at a library across the border between the time he is stated to leave his apt at 2:45 am (by the pca) until 5-5:30ish in the morning - at school not even his own.

jmo

Let me catch you up, I was talking about the 12 times his phone was detected in the area of 1122 King Rd BEFORE the murders, not on the night of the murders.

Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the killing of four University of Idaho students last November, claims he was out driving at the time of the stabbings, according to court filings, indicating the alibi he could rely on at trial.
“Mr. Kohberger has long had a habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night,” his attorney, Anne Taylor, wrote in the filing. “He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022...
At this time there is not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment.” Taylor wrote..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/08/04/bryan-kohberger-idaho-alibi-driving/

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/080223-Objection-States-Motion-to-Compel-Motive-of-Defense-of-Alibi-Alternatively-to-Bar-Certain.pdf

Yes, we know. But the discussion is only about the 12 nights he was near 1122 King Rd.

My point was BK was a grad student, he may well have been doing research at the UofI library. Typically, grad students don't only use the library at their own school. Often outside libraries are used. Once you finish your research you have no reason to return to the outside library - in this case for BK, it would be the UfoI library.

My point was he may have, at least, in the beginning, have had a different and even legitimate reason for being at UofI. There are two ways this could have gone given the case: 1. he did research at the UofI library and finished and never went over to that library again once he was done or 2. he did research at the UofI library and somehow came upon 1122 King Rd on one of those nights. In the first case, he might be innocent. In the second case, this could be how he came upon one or more of the roommates or that house. The PCA just has him stalking the house without any clear reason. This could be the start of how that happened. We won't know until the trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

Let me catch you up, I was talking about the 12 times his phone was detected in the area of 1122 King Rd BEFORE the murders, not on the night of the murders.


Yes, we know. But the discussion is only about the 12 nights he was near 1122 King Rd.

My point was BK was a grad student, he may well have been doing research at the UofI library. Typically, grad students don't only use the library at their own school. Often outside libraries are used. Once you finish your research you have no reason to return to the outside library - in this case for BK, it would be the UfoI library.

My point was he may have, at least, in the beginning, have had a different and even legitimate reason for being at UofI. There are two ways this could have gone given the case: 1. he did research at the UofI library and finished and never went over to that library again once he was done or 2. he did research at the UofI library and somehow came upon 1122 King Rd on one of those nights. In the first case, he might be innocent. In the second case, this could be how he came upon one or more of the roommates or that house. The PCA just has him stalking the house without any clear reason. This could be the start of how that happened. We won't know until the trial.

<modsnip>

It still shows he had the opportunity to observe 1122 King Rd, shows he had the time and the means to go there. He can't say he had never been in the area.

Just like the witness description doesn't rule him out. He can't say the witness saw someone that could not have been him. According to the witness description it very well could have been him.

According to his phone and traffic stop he liked hanging out near the area of where the murders occurred. He can't say he is not familiar with the area.

This is good circumstantial evidence for the jury to consider, and they will.

2 Cents

 

[Jurisprudence]

I wonder what this^^^ is about---the late Nov 12th night time drive?

The PCA puts him leaving his Pullman apartment about 3 am. I wonder where he was earlier, say around 10pm to 12 am, as his attorney seems to say he was out for a late night drive at that time?

She seems to try and imply that he left before midnight that night of the 12th and just continued his late night solo drive well until the morning of the 13th.

But his cell records apparently tell a different story? He was home at 3 am, and for some reason took a drive to Moscow.

Not yet anyway.

About all. Before and during. We haven't gotten to after yet

 

[foreverlennon]

My own thinking is that the defense will stay away from any discussion of the wounds during the trial.

Why is that?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

<modsnip>

It still shows he had the opportunity to observe 1122 King Rd, shows he had the time and the means to go there. He can't say he had never been in the area.

Just like the witness description doesn't rule him out. He can't say the witness saw someone that could not have been him. According to the witness description it very well could have been him.

According to his phone and traffic stop he liked hanging out near the area of where the murders occurred. He can't say he is not familiar with the area.

This is good circumstantial evidence for the jury to consider, and they will.

2 Cents

RBBM

Very good points! I’m quite puzzled by the focus on the UI Library when everyone here knows the WSU Libraries are far superior, MOO, and more accessible!

ETA: parking on the UI campus is a real bear, particularly for those without UI Parking Permits. It ain’t easy even for those with parking permits, IME & MOO.

 

[katydid23]

RBBM

Very good points! I’m quite puzzled by the focus on the UI Library when everyone here knows the WSU Libraries are far superior, MOO, and more accessible!

ETA: parking on the UI campus is a real bear, particularly for those without UI Parking Permits. It ain’t easy even for those with parking permits, IME & MOO.

Am I imagining this---IIRC, someone previously said that students from UI could park at WSU and vice versa.

It would actually be interesting to find that BK was hanging around UI instead of WSU. Maybe he didn't want to mess with girls at his own University because of his job and he'd maybe be recognised. He might have liked the anonymity of being on and around the other campus?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Am I imagining this---IIRC, someone previously said that students from UI could park at WSU and vice versa.

It would actually be interesting to find that BK was hanging around UI instead of WSU. Maybe he didn't want to mess with girls at his own University because of his job and he'd maybe be recognised. He might have liked the anonymity of being on and around the other campus?

There is a process — it’s not automatic:
Reciprocal Parking - PTS | University of Idaho.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

The library discussion started simply as a member's speculative opinion. It is not based on any known fact one way or t'other and has now gone on through 6 pages.

Please move on from that particular discussion. Thanks !!

 

[rainbowshummingbird]

Why is that?

The defense will not want the jury to focus on the violence and severity of the victims’ wounds. The jurors will naturally be upset, disgusted, and horrified. It might even elicit vengeful feelings in them.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The defense will not want the jury to focus on the violence and severity of the victims’ wounds. The jurors will naturally be upset, disgusted, and horrified. It might even elicit vengeful feelings in them.

True, but the prosecution will want to point out the brutality of the crimes and any cut marks that may match a potential weapon. Either way, my heart breaks for the jurors and the parents/families of Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan to have to hear and see this.

I wonder what BK will be thinking during that testimony?

MOO

EBM: Added further clarification

 

[Balthazar]

Am I imagining this---IIRC, someone previously said that students from UI could park at WSU and vice versa.

It would actually be interesting to find that BK was hanging around UI instead of WSU. Maybe he didn't want to mess with girls at his own University because of his job and he'd maybe be recognised. He might have liked the anonymity of being on and around the other campus?

This is true. The two schools have reciprocity. Students at either university are welcome on each other's campus. To use the library, take classes not offered at their university and so forth.

 

[m00c0w]

It feels to me like the extent of sharing between campuses is being over-exaggerated. They have a co-op program where students from UI can take specific classes at WSU and vice versa. If you do this, you get access to the opposite’s resources because you get admitted as a non-degree student. But it seems like you have to actually be enrolled in the co-op and I’m not even sure BK would be eligible for any classes offered under the program.

U of I-WSU Coop | University of Idaho

Learn how to register at U of I and WSU in a cooperative program both universities offer.

www.uidaho.edu

In my opinion, he killed specifically at UofI because he has no official ties to the campus and he felt that would make him harder to find. And he was correct, to an extent. Fortunately, he left the knife sheath at the crime scene with a healthy DNA sample on it. What’s the saying, everyone has the perfect plan until you get punched in the face?

MOO

Edit: For clarity, I’m specifically talking about the parking pass question asked above. Within the coop docs, you can find the applications for parking passes and see that you have to be enrolled in the co-op to get one. They don’t just offer blanket reciprocity between institutions.

 

[maskedwoman]

There is a process — it’s not automatic:
Reciprocal Parking - PTS | University of Idaho.

Very helpful, thank you!

I began to wonder if he could have parked at UI, so his car wouldn't be noticed at odd hours, and then jogged over to the house for his creeping sessions. After doing some research, this seems unlikely. If I'm reading this correctly, WA students cannot park on UI unless they obtain a reciprocal parking permit or use the pay to park spaces. A permit requires the same information as needed to obtain a regular UI parking permit, as well as the classes being used to justify obtaining that permit.

I remember the story that some female UI students recalled seeing him in the cafeteria/union hall watching people and it creeped them out. It was in the Post, DM and People, although I'm not sure if it was ever confirmed.

If true, he either had a reciprocal permit or he paid to park. I would hope that, by now, we would have heard if he was enrolled in any UI classes. Plus, reciprocal parking ends at 5pm. The second link below also says they have posted hours at paid parking locations, so one cannot park in those spaces at any old time either. So if he parked nearby and jogged over, it sounds like he wasn't parking at UI. I shot down my own theory. LOL

‘Staring’ Bryan Kohberger was seen multiple times on University of Idaho campus: students

Three University of Idaho students said they saw Bryan Kohberger at their Student Union building in the weeks before the brutal off-campus murders – and said the creepy loner “was the type to stare…

nypost.com

Visitor Parking | Parking and Transportation Services | University of Idaho

www.uidaho.edu

 

[10ofRods]

Am I imagining this---IIRC, someone previously said that students from UI could park at WSU and vice versa.

It would actually be interesting to find that BK was hanging around UI instead of WSU. Maybe he didn't want to mess with girls at his own University because of his job and he'd maybe be recognised. He might have liked the anonymity of being on and around the other campus?

OR he had been studying criminal justice and criminology and knew that his statistical probability of being caught for a crime was less if he crossed state lines (although he needed to study more and leave his phone on his nightstand). These stats are based on at least 50 years of data, though, and in 2022, what with cell phone tech and GPS and all that, it's simply not as true as it once was. Not to mention, of course that the two universities share many resources and I'm guessing the two campus police forces are often in communication and probably socialize to a certain extent (at least that occasional short conversation on a phone call, wherein they are comparing notes on something that has happened).

My speculation on a person who crosses state lines into a state that has the death penalty, to commit a crime, is that they may also be seeking the death penalty, whether consciously or unconsciously. Further, Idaho doesn't allow an insanity defense, so such a person might also be on a long term quest to be perceived as "not crazy" (when, and this is entirely my opinion anyone who straddles the line between mass murderer and would-be serial killer has a screw loose). Naturally, having a loose screw is not sufficient in any state for an insanity defense, but that's clearly off the table in this case (until sentencing).

I think there are other reasons why Kohberger first went to Moscow, Idaho and that will all come out at trial. In the meantime, I am speculating.

I'm just adding on to reasons why he might have gone to Idaho, including of course - he felt less likely to be identified.

IMO.

 

[Sundog]

The defense will not want the jury to focus on the violence and severity of the victims’ wounds. The jurors will naturally be upset, disgusted, and horrified. It might even elicit vengeful feelings in them.

Agree, and the proseuction will also need to prove the existence of the aggravating circumstances that BK is charged with and provide evidence for these aggravating circumstances (that the murder was especially heinous, etc.). The prosecution has to prove each of the aggravating circumstances to the jury beyond a reasonable doubt - which I think will be easy to do. If the jury finds BK guilty, I think they will also find him guilty of the aggravated cirumstances that he has been charged with.

Not sure what the defense will do in relation to the aggravating circumstances that the state has charged BK with and will have to prove at the trial. Maybe the defense will just focus on the mitigating factors that are weighed in relation to the aggravating circumstances during the penalty phase.

 

[Boxer]

My speculation on a person who crosses state lines into a state that has the death penalty, to commit a crime, is that they may also be seeking the death penalty, whether consciously or unconsciously. Further, Idaho doesn't allow an insanity defense, so such a person might also be on a long term quest to be perceived as "not crazy" (when, and this is entirely my opinion anyone who straddles the line between mass murderer and would-be serial killer has a screw loose). Naturally, having a loose screw is not sufficient in any state for an insanity defense, but that's clearly off the table in this case (until sentencing).

I think there are other reasons why Kohberger first went to Moscow, Idaho and that will all come out at trial. In the meantime, I am speculating.

I'm just adding on to reasons why he might have gone to Idaho, including of course - he felt less likely to be identified.

IMO.

Fits in with the "I will be exonerated" which is basically
"I will be found legally innocent."

MOO a big difference from actual innocence

 

[TL4S]

OR he had been studying criminal justice and criminology and knew that his statistical probability of being caught for a crime was less if he crossed state lines (although he needed to study more and leave his phone on his nightstand). These stats are based on at least 50 years of data, though, and in 2022, what with cell phone tech and GPS and all that, it's simply not as true as it once was. Not to mention, of course that the two universities share many resources and I'm guessing the two campus police forces are often in communication and probably socialize to a certain extent (at least that occasional short conversation on a phone call, wherein they are comparing notes on something that has happened).

My speculation on a person who crosses state lines into a state that has the death penalty, to commit a crime, is that they may also be seeking the death penalty, whether consciously or unconsciously. Further, Idaho doesn't allow an insanity defense, so such a person might also be on a long term quest to be perceived as "not crazy" (when, and this is entirely my opinion anyone who straddles the line between mass murderer and would-be serial killer has a screw loose). Naturally, having a loose screw is not sufficient in any state for an insanity defense, but that's clearly off the table in this case (until sentencing).

I think there are other reasons why Kohberger first went to Moscow, Idaho and that will all come out at trial. In the meantime, I am speculating.

I'm just adding on to reasons why he might have gone to Idaho, including of course - he felt less likely to be identified.

IMO.

It will be curious to find out how BK first came across the victims, how much time he took to plan, what, if any, of his education he used in the planning he might have done, and to what extent he tried to cover his tracks. JMO.

A lot of folks didn't seem to think his education meant anything in regards to the crime, and that he probably wasn't very knowledgeable, even in the things he studied, or was hyper-focused on the girls. If that's the case, and he didn't take any steps to try to avoid the digital (or physical) footprints he was leaving (especially since digital evidence seemed particularly interesting to him, per his application to the Pullman PD), then I have my doubts he put much thought into crossing state lines, either. That's just a personal opinion, of course, and I think the real factor is how and why he targeted those victims or the house.

Actually, I tend to think he DID use his education to try to plan things perfectly, but he overestimated his own knowledge, or maybe better put, underestimated his own likelihood of messing up, in addition to LE's investigative skillfulness.

I just personally find it harder to believe that he took into consideration various state laws, DP, insanity pleas, etc., but then ignored the fact that he would be driving by probably dozens of cameras. JMO. Unless he had a death wish for himself, of course. You never know. But it doesn't seem that way considering him wearing gloves and sorting his trash into ziplock bags, after the fact.

 

[m00c0w]

It will be curious to find out how BK first came across the victims, how much time he took to plan, what, if any, of his education he used in the planning he might have done, and to what extent he tried to cover his tracks. JMO.

A lot of folks didn't seem to think his education meant anything in regards to the crime, and that he probably wasn't very knowledgeable, even in the things he studied, or was hyper-focused on the girls. If that's the case, and he didn't take any steps to try to avoid the digital (or physical) footprints he was leaving (especially since digital evidence seemed particularly interesting to him, per his application to the Pullman PD), then I have my doubts he put much thought into crossing state lines, either. That's just a personal opinion, of course, and I think the real factor is how and why he targeted those victims or the house.

Actually, I tend to think he DID use his education to try to plan things perfectly, but he overestimated his own knowledge, or maybe better put, underestimated his own likelihood of messing up, in addition to LE's investigative skillfulness.

I just personally find it harder to believe that he took into consideration various state laws, DP, insanity pleas, etc., but then ignored the fact that he would be driving by probably dozens of cameras. JMO. Unless he had a death wish for himself, of course. You never know. But it doesn't seem that way considering him wearing gloves and sorting his trash into ziplock bags, after the fact.

I personally think he very carefully planned a lot of this out and did choose to cross state lines and attack at a different university because it would distance the homicide from himself. He also had an out of state plate until shortly after the murders, when he picked up Washington plates. Which I think was also intentional - his car would no longer fit the description of his car.

I believe he planned very meticulously, but this isn’t something that can really be rehearsed. You’re not in it until you’re in it, and once he was in it, he was way out of his league and made stupid mistakes he never accounted for (the most glaring being the knife sheath left at the scene). He probably thought it would be easier than it was, and there were probably some things he never dreamed of, like an unaccounted for roommate actually seeing him in the house. The wheels fell off pretty quickly, so he needed to mitigate as much as he could. Which resulted in him traveling to PA, separating his DNA into neighbors’ trash, etc. Unfortunately for him (fortunately for everyone else), you don’t know what you don’t know… and he didn’t know that LE was able to identify him as quickly as they did and probably didn’t anticipate federal involvement to the level it was.

JMO

ETA: I also fully believe he thinks he will get away with this.

 

[Megnut]

I personally think he very carefully planned a lot of this out and did choose to cross state lines and attack at a different university because it would distance the homicide from himself. He also had an out of state plate until shortly after the murders, when he picked up Washington plates. Which I think was also intentional - his car would no longer fit the description of his car.

I believe he planned very meticulously, but this isn’t something that can really be rehearsed. You’re not in it until you’re in it, and once he was in it, he was way out of his league and made stupid mistakes he never accounted for (the most glaring being the knife sheath left at the scene). He probably thought it would be easier than it was, and there were probably some things he never dreamed of, like an unaccounted for roommate actually seeing him in the house. The wheels fell off pretty quickly, so he needed to mitigate as much as he could. Which resulted in him traveling to PA, separating his DNA into neighbors’ trash, etc. Unfortunately for him (fortunately for everyone else), you don’t know what you don’t know… and he didn’t know that LE was able to identify him as quickly as they did and probably didn’t anticipate federal involvement to the level it was.

JMO

ETA: I also fully believe he thinks he will get away with this.

Rbbm

...but doesn't care if he doesn't.

I think he is generally fueled by constant annoyance with people and comforted by pervasive indifference to the same.

jmo