4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #93

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10ofRods said:
In which case, the HOA (an elected body charged with knowing local law about such things) had a requirement that is illegal in nearly all jurisdictions (and often governed by local laws about trash).

NO one is ever required to avoid using their own trash can and to use someone else's! You cannot convert other people's propert (even the trash company's) to your own use via HOA fiat.

If you can show me any HOA that requires each resident to use someone else's trash cans for their own trash I would love to see it. Do the rules then require that the trash-thrower wait until trash day? Because trespassing to use someone else's trash can must surely be illegal or else PA has very odd notions of property ownership.

Here where I live, it's illegal to use someone else's trash can OR to take things out of the trash unless you are LE.

I do realize there are some whack-a-doo HOA's, but causing people to avoid the use of their own trash cans in favor of someone else's is, to me, quite a stretch.

(It is really funny to think about in any case - the over reach of HOA's is a national meme).
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I'm sorry I was attempting to be funny
 
@newsfromkerri

Deputy Prosecutor Ashley Jennings is asking about a specific software that shows location and directions of cell towers. He produced a visual display, created screenshots, made sure time was correct. He did not have a reason to save the settings, detective said.


6:17 PM · May 23, 2024
 
MOO

I did not have WINDY.COM on my bingo card.

Windy has screen shots .... detectives looked at the site, found nothing of evidentiary value for the relevant time period.

At the State's behest, he looked again yesterday. Provided a screenshot to the Defense even though it had no evidentiary value.

Welcome to the theatre of AT.

MOO
 
@newsfromkerri

We looked back then, but the screenshots were mainly during the daytime and not what was needed, detective says. Taylor is showing him a map. Screen capture of map admitted. She wants to know if she needs exact same software program to recreate what he did. He doesn't know.


6:24 PM · May 23, 2024
 
DR DIVA said:
I may have missed posts relating to this so I apologize if this topic has already been dissected but.....does anyone have any info on why none of the 4 victims seem to not put up a fight during the attack? Especially the male (Ethan)? And what about the other 2 roommates? The one who reportedly saw the suspect and didn't do anything/check on her roommates/call 911/etc for hours and hours? How does a single person brutally stab 4 adults in the same house (not even 4 isolated adults but 2 pairs of adults in their respective rooms - Ethan & Xana, Kaylee & Madison) without anyone else being aware and without any chaos????? And the main piece of concrete evidence (that has been released to public knowledge thus far anyway) is a sample of TRACE DNA on a knife sheath??? It almost seems statistically impossible IMO. Again, my apologies if this has already been discussed...
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If you are slightly drunk and woken up in deep sleep being violently stabbed how exactly do you defend yourself?
BK had an advantage, he took them off-guard.
Are you wide awake at 4 am? and ready for hand to hand combat with a muscular wide awake armed masked man?
Now, think about if you were drunk, maybe stoned, or dead asleep.
If you stab someone directly in the neck or heart they aren't going to be able to fight back. IMHO. I'm sure experts can give you a much better description. But most people do not anticipate being stabbed to death in their bed at 4 am, our guards are down.
 
10ofRods said:
Everyone was asleep except Xana, apparently. No one heard anything. Murphy the Dog may have growled (misinterpreted as playful growling by one of the surviving roommates). There was no chaos.

It was fast, gruesome and silent. No one alerted to anything. People inside the house would not have seen the blood right away (there's some on the outside of the house - and there are latent bloody footprints from someone coming down the stairs - but no mention of pooled blood inside the house. Latent means "invisible."

The bloody footprints belong to a person who appears to be the intruder - a single person's footprints. I think we'd have heard if there were two sets and LE would be looking for that other person. In order to produce bloody footprints, someone had to step in blood, for sure.

There is no such thing as indirect DNA. Every cell in an organism has "direct" DNA. It has only one form and is created in only one set of processes (cellular division). Sweat is not indirect. It's a body fluid. Body fluids like semen and sweat are not indirect. The would make rape kids "indirect," but I've never heard anyone say that. It's likely epithelial DNA, given where it was found. Doesn't matter the type of cell from which it came. DNA is DNA.

It was not even what is sometimes called "trace" DNA (that has an entirely different meaning in forensic science). It is "touch" DNA (an encounter between the body and an object which leaves a DNA trace of that person being very near or touching the object - there is now research on exhaled DNA as well. Epithelial DNA is by far the most common type of forensic DNA that's found.

"Touch" merely refers to the method by which the DNA got where it is. We don't say "touch fingerprints", DNA comes with fingers as well. Even after death, humans are shedding/discarding some DNA. DNA persists for centuries, even millennia, in some cases. DNA can be obtained through indirect methods of analysis - which would be much harder to explain to a jury. There's no evidence that any of these reconstructive methods were used in this case.

I believe BK used tactics that were specifically designed to keep himself from being bloody - the technique I've described (unlike throat slashing) does not produce external blood spurts - but there would have been blood, for sure. He wore a mask, suitable clothing and gloves. He had prepared his car to receive those items, just in case he was stopped (we know of three traffic errors resulting in stops for him - I don't think he's a great driver).

I'm going with "he took precautions and wasn't bloody" when he climbed back into the driver's seat of his car. No victim DNA was found inside his vehicle (that's according to AT though).

He did exactly what all forensic specialists know to do to keep their own DNA out of a crime scene (this is usually learned at the bachelor's level in criminal justice, a doctoral candidate in criminology would know this and should be prepared to explain and TEACH it, criminologists are hired as consultants by LE agencies to review, do and establish such training). It's an area of specialization, however (no grad student would be hired in such a capacity - and they'd need more than grad criminology coursework in the forensic anthropology/genetics to get to that level of expertise). I have tagged along and suited up to make sure my own DNA didn't contaminate a crime scene (they still take samples of all forensic personnel and visitors to crime scenes if there's good local LE practice - you can find videos of the Moscow PD forensic investigators suiting up - including the crime scene photographers). I've been to a body farm and suited up there for the same reason (as the whole point of my field trip was to observe various field DNA collection techniques).

BK did very well, so far as we know, at keeping his DNA off objects - as I hope I did when I did the above things. BK used his training as a criminal justice and budding criminologist to aid in planning this crime - to me, it almost HAS to be someone with extensive knowledge of how to avoid forensic detection. A student of crime plans a crime - this is what it looks like. I also think his VSS plays a role in learning to plan things carefully and adjust for variables that the rest of us might find nerve-wracking.

I would love to see an academic citation or two describing what, exactly "touch DNA" is (other than a popular notion). Here is an article where it is mentioned, but in quotation marks (because it is not proper scientific terminology). Note that the author uses the word "trace" to mean the same thing. That's how it was usually referred to until the press started using other terms. But the press are not DNA experts.


And here is example of how the term is currently used in science (to mean epithelial DNA):


Some view any sample gained with a swab to be "touch" DNA (which makes sense, as shorthand). Note that there's high scientific validity to what scientists are calling touch/epithelial DNA. I am at a loss as to why anyone (including journalists) think that epithelial DNA is problematic. But then, some people thought fingerprints were problematic. The media has decided "touch" DNA is a specific forensic problem - but that's wildly inaccurate.

IMO.
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I blame Hollywood films for the elaborate 15-minute fight to the death-stabbing scenes.
Victims of violent crimes say it happened so quickly they didn't realize they had been stabbed. Also, witnesses didn't hear anything but standing close to a victim who was stabbed in public. It happens quickly often without any sound.
 
Megnut said:
It's hard to imagine a process where someone who is not BK would obtain his DNA uncontaminated (single source), obtain a specific knife sheath that BK may have purchased and then somehow deposit it into the crevise around the very snap that secures and unsecured the leather flap without adding any of their own DNA, anywhere along the process. Why would anyone do that? Far more contrived than the straight line -- BK's sheath, probably wiped of DNA, except for the crevice. He shed cells when he worked the snap and the leather fold protected his skin cells... until they were swabbed and tested and told on him in a very big way.

JMO
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That would have to be someone well versed in DNA, and the ability to break in BK apt. steal his knife/sheath, wipe them down but leave one small print/DNA sample on the snap.
Why leave a small sample if trying to frame him? It's kinda risky, isn't it?
Why would anyone want to frame him?
 
@BrianEntin

1/2 Bryan Kohberger hearing ended.Defense questioned why Moscow Police Detective Mowery just came across certain cell phone records yesterday.Also -- asked why he did not capture certain road camera images. He said some of the images were not relevant.Next hearing in one week.

2/2 It is not uncommon for defense attorneys to try to poke holes in police work.There was not enough detail given today in the hearing to really know whether police made any mistakes.


6:32 PM · May 23, 2024
 
Bryan Kohberger returns to Latah County courtroom at 2:30 today for another pretrial hearing. I’ll be following along with live updates this afternoon.


Waiting for Judge to start his Livestream. We also have a reporter in the Moscow courtroom, along with other news outlets covering the #Kohberger hearing today. Should be interesting since defense has a witness. Change of venue hearing isn't until June 27.


It's started! Kohberger in the courtroom with Taylor, state has Thompson and Jennings at table. Motions to compel discovery at issue.


Witness with Detective Lawrence Mowrey of the Moscow Police Department. He investigated homicides at 1122 King Road. His work was with cell phone analysis and collection of video from around community.


Taylor is asking the Moscow detective about his training on cellular towers and providers by FBI CAST members. Mowrey's certificates entered as exhibits.


Name is spelled Lawerence Mowery, according to MPD website. Defense is asking about a report he looked at it yesterday. He found 6 or 7 items in session logs. She's asking for details.


He gave records to prosecutor yesterday. AT&T warrant returns covered a 48-hour period, and a longer period of time. She's asking about specific files. Taylor asks if she can have those 3 files and emails. Detective says yes. Data file had references to locations.


Taylor is asking when he was asked to review reports. Program was used in spring 2023 to access call detail records, related to Kohberger's phone number, detective says. Screenshots were taken. I wasn't main person looking at call detail records, he says. Info used for grand jury


Mowery created visual records for grand jury. Taylor is asking why a session log was never created. She appears to be questioning his forensic process and is now asking about videos of main roads in and out of Moscow. "Did you do a preservation for anything?" Taylor asks.


Mowery says he did not have still shots of road preserved. Taylor is now asking about Red Star Coffee Shop videos. She wants to track where they went. He doesn't have that info.


Deputy Prosecutor Ashley Jennings is asking about a specific software that shows location and directions of cell towers. He produced a visual display, created screenshots, made sure time was correct. He did not have a reason to save the settings, detective said.


Session files have been provided, he says. Looked into http://windy.com, which have screenshots on a website. Time frame wasn't what we were interested in, and that's why they weren't preserved, he says. Turned over to defense anyway.


We looked back then, but the screenshots were mainly during the daytime and not what was needed, detective says. Taylor is showing him a map. Screen capture of map admitted. She wants to know if she needs exact same software program to recreate what he did. He doesn't know.


Mowery says he didn't feel need to create a session log. Taylor is trying to make a point that she can't see what he did. Witness is excused.


OK, my feed just went down, so I'm guessing this hearing is done. Next one is a week away. Thanks for following along today. We'll have more details in Anthony Kuipers' article in Tribune.

@newsfromkerri



 
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