4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #94

[katydid23]

Agreed. Not saying it's untrue, but I'd just love to see the source itself. Always wondered if BK actually ordered it.

I don't think BK could have ordered it in Xana's name on Door Dash.

DD, like Uber-eats and instacart, requires a confirmed account ---which uses the email, the approved credit card associated w/that email AND that home address and phone number.

He could have ordered himself a meal to be sent to that address, but that would have been stupid and incriminating.

 

[katydid23]

I also agree that it’s important to use science and forensic pathology to determine the time of deaths, not just that a car drove fast by the house. I hope and expect the forensic pathologist to have done their job accordingly to independently determine the approximate time of death.

Agreed, but all they can really do is an approximation, which varies but is usually within a few hour window of time. So they are not going to be able to more exact than 'a window of 3 to 5 am' kind of estimation, most likely. Which is why they also rely heavily upon circumstantial data as well, like last text or call, last cctv sighting, etc.

 

[katydid23]

Doordash will often just leave at the door as long as the order was pre-paid, which is the general way to handle it. I've never read whether the Doordash delivery person saw her or not.

The food bag ended up in the kitchen, and was at least partially eaten. So someone was alive and well when it was delivered. IMO

 

[wendy44]

This is exactly the point. If the original time is an hour that BK had a confirmed alibi, what would be stopping the state from viewing cell phone data and selecting a time in which BK would not be alibi’d (not saying that’s what happened but just using it as an example) That’s why the science is so important and we’re not just relying on circumstantial video data. IMO

I think that's a good point if they were solely relying on circumstantial video data. But the PCA says that forensic downloads from the phones of the surviving roommates were used to establish the time of the murders. AT has seen this evidence.

I truly wish every defendant who needed a public defender had one like AT. In my opinion, if there was any wiggle room in the time of the murders, she would be arguing that in the Alibi Response and using the data that puts him in Pullman to alibi him.

 

[katydid23]

How do we know if it was delivered to a person or just left at the door. We don't know if he actually even saw her before he drove away. He maybe just marked it as delivered and took a photo as proof of such

But it appears as though the bag was in the kitchen, and it was most likely partially eaten. If not, I think LE would have mentioned that in the PCA, as that could be evidence that the victim never even had time to eat their food which was delivered at 4 am. IMO

 

[iamshadow21]

But it appears as though the bag was in the kitchen, and it was most likely partially eaten. If not, I think LE would have mentioned that in the PCA, as that could be evidence that the victim never even had time to eat their food which was delivered at 4 am. IMO

Stomach contents at autopsy would also be confirmatory, IMO. If Xana had a stomach full of undigested food, then they would know that she died immediately after eating.

MOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

I don't think BK could have ordered it in Xana's name on Door Dash.

DD, like Uber-eats and instacart, requires a confirmed account ---which uses the email, the approved credit card associated w/that email AND that home address and phone number.

He could have ordered himself a meal to be sent to that address, but that would have been stupid and incriminating.

Most people have their account set up on their phone. Anyone with access to the phone can order on that account to that accounts name. It will charge to the credit card on the account and text to the phone or send to the email that is usually on the phone. Basically speaking, if someone was on their phone and it wasn't locked yet when someone else picked it up, it would be possible. If you are watching videos, the phone usually stays unlocked.

While I don't believe anyone else ordered the JITB order, I'm saying it could easily happen.

 

[Ghostwheel]

And if I may, why is there argument about the jitb bag being anywhere when the pca states

"The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforrm€nt, reviews of forensic doumloads of records ftom B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 am."

Initial time:after 2 am. 4 am is after 2 am.
Discussion of 3-3:30 am was that they were contacting another person, so must still be alive at that time, though could be deceased after last contact with that person. 4 am is still after the last contact.

No discrepancies.

 

[GRT]

I don't think BK could have ordered it in Xana's name on Door Dash.

DD, like Uber-eats and instacart, requires a confirmed account ---which uses the email, the approved credit card associated w/that email AND that home address and phone number.

He could have ordered himself a meal to be sent to that address, but that would have been stupid and incriminating.

It's interesting, to be sure. If Xana had a Door Dash account, it might not have been too difficult for someone else to order from it—as long as they had access to her phone. Many phones today, including mine, are PIN-protected.

But if the killer could have gotten into her phone or laptop, auto-fill-in could have handled the rest. especially if she had her DD account linked to Paypal, which can be used without having to sign in each time if it recognizes the device.

I'm guessing LE tested the uneaten food for DNA to see who was eating it.

 

[grannygates]

I think that's a good point if they were solely relying on circumstantial video data. But the PCA says that forensic downloads from the phones of the surviving roommates were used to establish the time of the murders. AT has seen this evidence.

I truly wish every defendant who needed a public defender had one like AT. In my opinion, if there was any wiggle room in the time of the murders, she would be arguing that in the Alibi Response and using the data that puts him in Pullman to alibi him.

Once AT actually gets the cell phone and video data from the prosecution she can decide if she wants to challenge the timelines.

Not saying that will happen and I haven’t heard anything at this time that suggests it but defense also hasn’t been provided any of that location data or unedited video footage (except what was provided by Mowery) in order to definitively decide for themselves if the timeline should be questioned.MOO

Edited to add: IIRC defense has stated that they haven’t been provided any of the evidence that supports the timeline in the PCA so they don’t have the ability to confirm the information is true. MOO

 

[katydid23]

Most people have their account set up on their phone. Anyone with access to the phone can order on that account to that accounts name. It will charge to the credit card on the account and text to the phone or send to the email that is usually on the phone. Basically speaking, if someone was on their phone and it wasn't locked yet when someone else picked it up, it would be possible. If you are watching videos, the phone usually stays unlocked.

While I don't believe anyone else ordered the JITB order, I'm saying it could easily happen.

But that DD driver dropped off the food @ 4 am. The other roomies were alive at that time, known because of the texts by both Kaylee and Mogen. I highly doubt that the killer ordered DD on X's cell, sent multiple texts from two other cells, and then scrolled TikTok ....while also stabbing to death 4 students. While two others were still alive in the home.

I bet the forensics team checked the fingerprints on the victims cells. If the killer used the cells to send multiple texts and orders, it would have been hard to do with gloves on. IME, it's hard to wear gloves and do those manipulations.
If he took gloves off, he'd have to wipe the cells clean afterwards. That would be suspicious.

One of the survivors saw the killer leaving....that should be a reliable factor in considering the TOD, imo.

 

[grannygates]

And if I may, why is there argument about the jitb bag being anywhere when the pca states

"The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforrm€nt, reviews of forensic doumloads of records ftom B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 am."

Initial time:after 2 am. 4 am is after 2 am.
Discussion of 3-3:30 am was that they were contacting another person, so must still be alive at that time, though could be deceased after last contact with that person. 4 am is still after the last contact.

No discrepancies.

This is just my own opinion and I am not a legal expert but my scrutiny of the PCA is the fact that the entire thing is an omission of the fact that they actually identified BK through a potentially (IMO likely) illegal search of a private IGG database and then worked backwards to make evidence fit the suspect.

IMO I hesitate to blindly accept that everything they say in the PCA is the full truth and there are not more facts being omitted

That’s an issue for the judge to sort out but that’s my own personal thoughts.

 

[katydid23]

It's interesting, to be sure. If Xana had a Door Dash account, it might not have been too difficult for someone else to order from it—as long as they had access to her phone. Many phones today, including mine, are PIN-protected.

But if the killer could have gotten into her phone or laptop, auto-fill-in could have handled the rest. especially if she had her DD account linked to Paypal, which can be used without having to sign in each time if it recognizes the device.

I'm guessing LE tested the uneaten food for DNA to see who was eating it.

I think the timing makes it very hard. The order was delivered by 4 am, so ordered around 3 to 3:30ish? Could the killer have been up and walking around in that house at that time, unnoticed? Wouldn't he have to kill a few of them to get access to cell and/or laptops?

We have a visual sighting of him leaving around 4:20ish....So does it make sense that he was there in that house, scrolling TikTok, ordering DoorDash, sending multiple texts to KG's bf from 2 phones, starting around 3:15 ?

I don't think any of that happened? Why would he bother with any of that? He killed 4 people then circled back and used their cells to order JITB, scroll TikTok, and text ex-bfs?

 

[katydid23]

This is just my own opinion and I am not a legal expert but my scrutiny of the PCA is the fact that the entire thing is an omission of the fact that they actually identified BK through a potentially (IMO likely) illegal search of a private IGG database and then worked backwards to make evidence fit the suspect.

There is nothing illegal about using IGG to identify a murder suspect, imo.

IMO I hesitate to blindly accept that everything they say in the PCA is the full truth and there are not more facts being omitted

That’s an issue for the judge to sort out but that’s my own personal thoughts.

 

[jepop]

Not to mention, that as late as 2:47am that morning, they have BK's phone and alleged video of his car in Pullman near his apartment. If they believed the murders took place earlier, THAT would be his alibi.

They've seen the evidence. They are trying to alibi him for the hours after 2:47am because they accept the timeline.
JMO

Exactly this. Defense has accepted the time line. And you've just made me think of something else; the autopsy report is in discovery. If it conflicted in any significant way as regards TOD (so let's say 2am as has been speculated on what basis in fact I have no idea), D would have filed another motion to dismiss or something similar. moo

The whole 2/3am TOD speculation seems really circular and groundless to me. To even entertain the idea, one has to start with an underlying assumption/premise that the investigation into victims' actions after 2am was totally mangled when even the defense isn't going there. It's a sort of 'what if' scenario that ends up going nowhere. jmo

 

[Boxer]

This is just my own opinion and I am not a legal expert but my scrutiny of the PCA is the fact that the entire thing is an omission of the fact that they actually identified BK through a potentially (IMO likely) illegal search of a private IGG database and then worked backwards to make evidence fit the suspect.

IMO I hesitate to blindly accept that everything they say in the PCA is the full truth and there are not more facts being omitted

That’s an issue for the judge to sort out but that’s my own personal thoughts.

This is my understanding.

MOO Geneaology searches arent illegal.
The lab database was of individuals who were aware of and consented that law enforcement would have access.
Its the fact that their relatives would be identified as being related. This is an issue that needs resolution. But MOO there is nothing nefarious.
What AT want to do is find a person who was related to BK who didnt want their DNA used to bridge identity to BK.
MOO this they intend to find by plumbing the anonyomous data of profiles for actual identities, something the police dont have access to. they have an app that accesses the front end report.

So it's an issue, but also and AT engages for the bigger issues as they take the focus off actual guilt.

MOO If BK found innocent by procedural suppression of DNA evidence, another murderer will walk.

 

[Ghostwheel]

But that DD driver dropped off the food @ 4 am. The other roomies were alive at that time, known because of the texts by both Kaylee and Mogen. I highly doubt that the killer ordered DD on X's cell, sent multiple texts from two other cells, and then scrolled TikTok ....while also stabbing to death 4 students. While two others were still alive in the home.

I bet the forensics team checked the fingerprints on the victims cells. If the killer used the cells to send multiple texts and orders, it would have been hard to do with gloves on. IME, it's hard to wear gloves and do those manipulations.
If he took gloves off, he'd have to wipe the cells clean afterwards. That would be suspicious.

One of the survivors saw the killer leaving....that should be a reliable factor in considering the TOD, imo.

You had said "I don't think BK could have ordered it in Xana's name on Door Dash."

All I was saying was that yes, he could have. I order on my Ds phone/account all the time, so not impossible if you have access to the phone. But I agree that I don't think he did. There is a difference between can't do something and likely didn't do something and I was making that distinction.

 

[grannygates]

There is nothing illegal about using IGG to identify a murder suspect, imo.

There absolutely is. Only certain databases (FamilyTreeDNA and GEDmatch) allow LE to use their DNA for crime matching and the user has to opt in to allow LE to use their DNA. LE would need to prove that the relative of BK allowed the database permission to provide the use the DNA to LE for crime matching. IMO this is why the IGG does not appear on the PCA.

All the big websites (23and me, Ancestry) do not allow LE to use their DNA info for crime matching.

Exploring Investigative Genetic Genealogy - Promega Connections

Investigative Genetic Genealogy is a rapidly growing field of science that has helped solve many cold case crimes and identify human remains.

www.promegaconnections.com

 

[Megnut]

It wasn't a linear investigation, they never are.

They had BK's name through campus security, matched with his vehicle and license. Those details matched the description of the suspect and suspect vehicle has seen on CCTV at multiple points.

It is entirely possible that LE had great difficulty collecting a DNA sample from BK. Who may have been taking advantage of late Covid precautions, wearing gloves, and he may have been meticulously -- obsessively -- careful about touching public surfaces, discarding his personal trash.

It's not included in the PCA but LE may have attempted several collections without success. And it was only by virtue of it being family waste (and BK separating his own out), that LE recovered the father's DNA which, when run through IGG's databases, showed a paternal association to the sheath DNA.

Then, upon arrest, BK's own buccal swab confirmed the statistical match to the DNA in the sheath.

Excellent investigative work. It's what IGG was created for.

It's the seal on the PCA, but even without it (hence the cavaet to the Judge), they had him dead to rights.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

There absolutely is. Only certain databases (FamilyTreeDNA and GEDmatch) allow LE to use their DNA for crime matching and the user has to opt in to allow LE to use their DNA. LE would need to prove that the relative of BK allowed the database permission to provide the use the DNA to LE for crime matching. IMO this is why the IGG does not appear on the PCA.

All the big websites (23and me, Ancestry) do not allow LE to use their DNA info for crime matching.

Exploring Investigative Genetic Genealogy - Promega Connections

Investigative Genetic Genealogy is a rapidly growing field of science that has helped solve many cold case crimes and identify human remains.

www.promegaconnections.com

MOO It's seems they would have to with subpoena.