A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[katsclown]

Yeah, scoot over pls - I'm still right there w/you on the fence. I don't know if its just bc I want to believe it so badly or what-- but I could still see an accident - w/her NOT being used to being the primary caregiver- she's not watching her- only has eyes for Tony and Tony things- and she tumbles down the stairs-or gets into some other unsupervised trouble- pills/chloroform (OD even) who knows?

OR - more likely (sadly) Casey's seething w/resentment and just SNAPS :furious: and does something horrible- in a fit of rage -to the toddler who's cramping her style-- MUCH more so lately bc her free ride (on the magic carpet) of the parental lap of luxury- just got YANKED (6/15 argument)! AND CA was out to take Casey's beautiful accessory- her source of praise, funds, positive parental attn etc. away for good!

AMEN to that, but the "free" ride was actually stolen and she was already caught (the ggp's money and the reason for the fight with Cindy) so the cat was already out of the bag. With KCs mentality, I'm not surprised she took it out on Caylee.

 

[Law_girl41]

in a court of law.........you dont need DAYZ to have a premeditated conviction. Even moments count. Because up until the moment of an act you have a choice and Caseys choice was out of anger, jealousy & rage @ her own mother. She took it out on Caylee!

 

[Sammi99]

Yes, kwmred LE did give her many chances to come clean. Usually in the event of an accident the mother will get sympathy from everyone and the court will be very lenient if negligence is found. She thought she could outsmart everyone. I think she's finding out that she has just underestimated LE's tenacity and the fact that they would check up on every statement that she made.

 

[Spangle]

The odor in the car says this wasn't pre-meditated.

If this wasn't an accident, then it was done on the spur of the momment. Maybe in a fit of rage. While still steaming over her argument with her Mother, Caylee did something that brought that attention towards her. All that pent up rage directed towards the little girl. If Casey took it out on Caylee and also thinking it would punish her Mother Cindy.. it could have been thought in the 'heat ' of the momment. Then to late to turn back.

 

[liltigress]

Yeah, scoot over pls - I'm still right there w/you on the fence. I don't know if its just bc I want to believe it so badly or what-- but I could still see an accident - w/her NOT being used to being the primary caregiver- she's not watching her- only has eyes for Tony and Tony things- and she tumbles down the stairs-or gets into some other unsupervised trouble- pills/chloroform (OD even) who knows?

OR - more likely (sadly) Casey's seething w/resentment and just SNAPS :furious: and does something horrible- in a fit of rage -to the toddler who's cramping her style-- MUCH more so lately bc her free ride (on the magic carpet) of the parental lap of luxury- just got YANKED (6/15 argument)! AND CA was out to take Casey's beautiful accessory- her source of praise, funds, positive parental attn etc. away for good!

And I don't know if she'll ever give up the charade- there's no benefit to her...she's still walking purposefully towards her office at Universal Studios!

Spiteful B!tch should be the title of the book.

Ima scootin but jussabout to fall off!

I think about the 16th of June. She kept herself plenty busy that day.

If she grieved even a little, it couldn't have been more than a couple of hours I'd think. And most of that time was probably spent trying to figure out how she could lie her way out of it.

I cringe when I think of what nightmares she could possibly be having. Is she dreaming about what's going to happen to her in jail? Death penalty? Or is she dreaming about the act of her killing Caylee?

 

[Maui4me]

I voted on the fence, but I cannot believe that if it was an accident, she has not cracked and come forward and said you know I was stupid, it was an accident... I have lost three kids and I can tell you I was not out partying after... this case freaks me like no other... I just want it resolved...

 

[cheko1]

I can't see anything other than premeditated murder. That baby was a noose around Casey's neck. After the argument with CA KC was pi$$ed off her free ride was over. She was going to have to step up to the plate take responsibility for once in her life. She had to face reality that she was Caylee's mom.

That didn't fit into any plans KC had. She never wanted Caylee but she never wanted anyone else to have her either.

 

[nancy botwin]

I'm still sort of unsure if there was a premeditated intent to kill Caylee. But I've always thought any accident scenario likely involved drugging and/or keeping Caylee in the trunk. Both would constitute aggravated child abuse and qualify this offense as First Degree Murder per the Felony Murder Rule. -- proving requisite intent in a "backwards sort of way..." So I'm not sure how to vote in this particular poll.

I just hope this is prosecuted as Murder 1 and that Casey is in prison for the rest of her life. I don't personally support the death penalty,but Casey's abject lack of remorse and sustained efforts to stonewall investigation and recovery efforts make me feel a little ambivalent in my conviction.

 

[suspicious mind]

Intent can happen in a millisecond!

 

[LaLaw2000]

Before this last batch of documents, I thought it MAY have been an accident through Casey either drugging Caylee or leaving her in a hot car or possibly the trunk. Now I do believe it was willful murder - not planned for weeks or days, but in the aftermath of the heated argument on Fathers Day with Cindy. I believe that Caylee died the night of June 15th - Fathers Day with Casey thinking maybe she would just show Cindy a thing or two. Casey was so delusional that maybe she felt that if Caylee were gone, her problems would be also.

I would love for Caylee to be found happy and healthy, but I do not feel that is the case in view of the evidence and especially after this last batch of documents.

I will never get over the pic of little Caylee in her swimsuit looking so overheated and trying to smile, but the smile looks so strained. GB Caylee.

 

[ScreenName]

not really sure yet if it was pre-meditated. Am waiting for more info.

 

[magic-cat]

Casey-in the words of your own mother:

"What have you done?"

 

[gitana1]

I have read all 317 pages of the new documents and I am convinced now more than ever that this was no accident, it was pre-meditated murder. I always wanted to beleive that it was an accident or negligent homicide, but when Casey told her brother she was a spiteful %^&*$ it all became very clear in my mind. KC despises her mother and the relationship she had with Caylee, KC didnt want her but she didnt want her mother to have her either. She killed two birds with one stone, she got rid of her parental resposibilities while at the same time hurting her mother in the worst possible and most spiteful way. I feel somewhat burdened and melancholy over this conclusion but I can't ignore what to me is the obvious.

She planned everything, as soon as she knew the decomposition odor was a problem she offered information about dead squirrels and excuses that no one had even asked for yet. After this document dump has anyone else reached the same conclusions? Why or why not.

Further, I am now adding to this because I dont think it was pre meditated in the sense that it was planned for months but that it was purposful and she did think about it, even if for just a short period of time as in hours after the June15th argument.

I think you are right on. I have always felt it was pre-meditated. My gut, you know? But those docs really help seal the deal.

 

[leophoenix]

I'm saying no that it was not Pre Meditated Murder. I believe she left on the 15th after a horrible argument with the parents. She may have awakened Caylee whom screamed and cried upon her departure. Anybody here ever wake up a small child from sleep, not pretty? Plus I'm sure there was arguing going on at the departure which may have frightened the child much more. This was showdown day for her parents on all the thefts and lies and may have even threatened her with the police or mental help. So she's driving around with her daughter in the back screaming and crying. At a moments loss of control she may have strangled, beat, or shook the girl to death. I think after this happened she went to her "Quiet Place" from her interview and almost spilled the beans.

Being a Sociopath though her answer to herself was to act naturally and just lay the blame of what happened on her parents and anyone else. The police/general public do not blame a parent that say nods off on the sofa while the child sneaks out and gets hit by a vehicle or drowns. They do, however blame a parent that loses control and beats their kid to death. I can almost picture her sitting somewhere and closing all thoughts of guilt about herself and going through all the events and laying blame for each event that triggered this on other people.

Chloroform was most likely used as a way to try to cover up for her. I too believe the Chloroform searches were after Caylee was gone.

I remember a time when my niece of the same age screaming and crying in the backseat of my car because of an ear ache. I'm saying I had to drive about 2 1/2 hours with her screaming in the car. It is like a siren that won't quit. After two hours I pulled over and told my brother that I had to get out because I couldn't stand to hear that noise anymore. But, you do see this in the news every so often with a child screaming and a daycare worker starts shaking the child. One of the parenting classes my sister in law took had a section called Time Out. This was when a mother was stressed not to act on snap sensations but, take a time out so you will not hurt your child.

 

[aqua_mom]

I'm also sitting on the fence. My heart wants to believe it was an accident but my head tells me otherwise. I could also believe that Caylee was extremely upset about having to leave the house like that and she might even have said she wanted to stay which would have enraged KC further and it pushed her over the edge.

The part of me that wants to believe it was an accident is because I see KC as so incredibly immature and I think of what someone like that might react in a situation. I think we all can agree that a normal responsible 22 year old would have reacted differently to an accident but she is clearly far from that. She's never had to take care of herself and her parents are always bailing her out of her messes. She's not been held accountable for the things she's done. She doesn't have the skills to behave as an adult would, much less be able to handle a horrific accident. I could see her panicking and all she can think about is that she is going to hide it as best she can so she won't get in "trouble." Once she goes down that road there is no turning back because she feels she must hide it at all costs. ----I know this is reaching, but it's there.

Either way, she should be locked up for life. Of that I have no doubt.

 

[LinasK]

I've always thought it was premeditated. Peole who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. If it was an accident, which I briefly considered, there would be no reason to hide it from anyone. No reason to dispose of the body. I would expect a mother to call 911 in the event of an accident. The chloroform and the chloroform searches scream premeditation to me.

Me too!

 

[GreenEyes727]

Computer searches and their dates have not been made public but when they are I believe NG will be proven wrong. I believe we will see chloroform searches *POST DATE* Caylee's disappearance--in fact FIT quite neatly within an accidental pool drowning scenario--since we now have every reason to suspect chloroform may have actually been used to destroy the ODOR or DNA--AFTER Caylee's decaying body had been inside trunk. Even THEN, the nagging question still remains by WHOM (I've got another theory re that). NG is far too eager to pronounce this tragedy a coldblooded, premeditated murder when even Casey herself when pressed by Lee ADMITS and alludes to the fact her mother's right afterall--that she really IS an "UNFIT" mother. (After tonight I really miss Greta's objectivity, all this gnashing of teeth is getting tiresome.) Don't get me wrong, there is NOTHING Casey did in the aftermath of this heartbreaking tragedy that is appropriate, reasonable or how any HUMANE, RESPONSIBLE, CARING ADULT would act! But the "rain falls on the just and the UNJUST" (including narcissists, fools, liars and thieves) and NEGLIGENCE, POOR PARENTING, FOOLISHNESS AND SELFISH PRIORITIES do in some instances CAUSE DEATH. One more silent toddler drowning--concealed after no one was answering her panicked calls because she couldn't face her mother or bear responsibiity for what she allowed to happen--for being the incompetent mother her mom always told her she was. 71 years worth of fraud, stolen and forged check charges YES Felony child endangerment YES!!! Lying to investigators YES!! Obstruction of justice!!! YES Criminal negligence YES!!! Abuse of a corpse YES!!!! Premeditated murder? I don't think so. We shall see as soon as we know ALL the cards LE is working with. IMHO

This was a very powerful post. I agree about NG - she was really nasty last night. I wouldn't want to be her guest anymore or I'd have to be smart back to her. I don't think it was premeditated either and I think the chloroform was for cleanup purposes, which didn't work.

We have to keep remembering that Cindy said that the pool ladder was moved when no one, to her knowledge, had gone swimming.

 

[johnielee333]

i've always thought it was pre-meditated murder.

 

[Dutchie Treat]

I don't think it was premeditated MURDER but I do believe it was premeditated COVER UP. She took the 31 days to stay out of the way of her parents and brother; she ran in diverse circles of friends; stayed away from physical contact like taking Amy to go get the car. She removed herself from her physical life (including new boyfriend Tony which I have always thought was part of the cover up - Ricardo knew Caylee and since they stayed there quite often with the TWO of them (Casey and Caylee) he would definitely start asking questions after a period of time) so that she could start making up her back story, including the nanny story.

This is my first post. Be nice. :blowkiss:

 

[ZooMomology]

I am confused by the flurry of calls. I think this shows panic. LP says this was just her checking to see if anybody was home, but over and over again?

The time the flurry of calls occurs is not in line with what time I would think she would have used chloroform, as I believe it was in afternoon around 4 when the calls started. What could happen in middle of day besides something like an pool accident, she rolled over her with the car, but then there would be blood somewhere. I don't know.

She's a witch with a B though and I have no doubt that she caused whatever happened to Caylee.