Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[steeltowngirl]

According to our sister station at WTHR, Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett swore under oath on Aug. 8, 2023, that a professor at Purdue did not believe sticks on the bodies were Odinist symbols. The defense went on to say that Prosecutor Nick McLeland allegedly told the defense the prosecution was unable to identify the professor on Sept. 6, 2023.
...
Holeman says he allegedly said he was working to set up the interview with Turco for several weeks, despite defense claims that it would have coincided with the same time that the prosecution claimed they could not identify Turco.

If Turco’s name wasn’t in the evidence documents, then NcML would have to rely on investigators to obtain it. If NMcL already had his name, was he compelled to identify Turco to defense in the alleged conversation on 9/6, prior to locating Turco? Was there a motion to that effect? Unable to identify could simply mean NMcL did not immediately provide it to defense. Turco wasn’t a crime witness, he was simply an expert LE consulted with as they investigated scenarios as they related to the crime scene. Perhaps LE needed to contact him first and obtain consent before providing his name. In any case, Holeman did locate Turco and interview him and provide the information.

Allen’s attorneys claimed State Trooper Jerry Holeman said in the months after the girls' murders that the professor told him it was "not Odinism or any type of cult worshipping or any type of group that would have conducted the crime," and officials abandoned the pagan cult angle.

On Sept. 18, the defense submitted a filing outlining why they believe the girls were "ritualistically sacrificed" and leveled accusations against lead detectives of ignoring or intentionally suppressing that evidence for years. The filing was made as part of efforts to suppress evidence about a gun found inside Allen's home.

The next day, Sept. 19, the defense claims Holeman was able to find the Purdue professor, Jeffrey Turco, and interview him. Holeman allegedly said he was working to setup the interview with Turco for several weeks. The defense claims that would have happened at the same time the prosecutor claimed they could not identify the professor.

Richard Allen's attorneys name Purdue professor and say police hid statement on Odinist connection to Delphi killings

The court documents claim the crime scene had pagan symbols formed with sticks, with tree branches and on a tree.

www.wthr.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

If Turco’s name wasn’t in the evidence documents, then NcML would have to rely on investigators to obtain it. If NMcL already had his name, was he compelled to identify Turco to defense in the alleged conversation on 9/6, prior to locating Turco? Was there a motion to that effect? Unable to identify could simply mean NMcL did not immediately provide it to defense. Turco wasn’t a crime witness, he was simply an expert LE consulted with as they investigated scenarios as they related to the crime scene. Perhaps LE needed to contact him first and obtain consent before providing his name. In any case, Holeman did locate Turco and interview him and provide the information.

Allen’s attorneys claimed State Trooper Jerry Holeman said in the months after the girls' murders that the professor told him it was "not Odinism or any type of cult worshipping or any type of group that would have conducted the crime," and officials abandoned the pagan cult angle.

On Sept. 18, the defense submitted a filing outlining why they believe the girls were "ritualistically sacrificed" and leveled accusations against lead detectives of ignoring or intentionally suppressing that evidence for years. The filing was made as part of efforts to suppress evidence about a gun found inside Allen's home.

The next day, Sept. 19, the defense claims Holeman was able to find the Purdue professor, Jeffrey Turco, and interview him. Holeman allegedly said he was working to setup the interview with Turco for several weeks. The defense claims that would have happened at the same time the prosecutor claimed they could not identify the professor.

Richard Allen's attorneys name Purdue professor and say police hid statement on Odinist connection to Delphi killings

The court documents claim the crime scene had pagan symbols formed with sticks, with tree branches and on a tree.

www.wthr.com

The D wanted the interview with Turco in 2017. How likely is it that no one ever turned that information over to McL? It was a very important piece of info, considering that interview was what caused the abandonment of the cult angle.

Then, when the D brought the issue up in 2023, they scrambled and suddenly found the guy and apparently did another interview.

 

[susiQ]

If BH had a solid, ironclad alibi, he would have been summarily excluded as a suspect.

This is true, but my understanding is that if you “contract” someone to kill someone on your behalf, you too are responsible. Unfortunately, this line of investigation was shut down, cut off at the knees, if you will. WHY?

BH didn’t need to be present at the CS to be the agent responsible for what took place. JMHO

 

[steeltowngirl]

By any chance does someone have a link to an FBI report for this case that specifically discusses signs of Odinism? I’ve done some searches online and can’t find anything. The only mention of it is in the filings of the defense team. TIA

I recall from the FM that the FBI report was in a summary of Click’s investigation that he attached with his letter to prosecution.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The D wanted the interview with Turco in 2017. How likely is it that no one ever turned that information over to McL? It was a very important piece of info, considering that interview was what caused the abandonment of the cult angle.

Then, when the D brought the issue up in 2023, they scrambled and suddenly found the guy and apparently did another interview.

McL likely did not have access to each and every document related to a 5.5 year long investigation at his immediate disposal to provide to defense every time they called and demanded it. Doesn’t mean he refused, just needed time to gather the information.

How likely is it that Turco‘s name wasn’t turned over to McL? IMO, quite likely. Turco was a consultant on an Odinist angle that was deemed ancillary to the investigation. Remember, even RA’s name wasn‘t brought back in until years later.

 

[steeltowngirl]

This is true, but my understanding is that if you “contract” someone to kill someone on your behalf, you too are responsible. Unfortunately, this line of investigation was shut down, cut off at the knees, if you will. WHY?

BH didn’t need to be present at the CS to be the agent responsible for what took place. JMHO

I understand your point SusiQ, but we don’t know for sure that the line of investigation was cut off at the knees. LE and NMcL said the investigation was still in progress; other actors might be involved, and they would seek justice for all. Gag order was placed.

Defense upended that by revealing (cherrypicking imo) some facts of the investigation via the FM.

Could BH & gang have hired BG? Was that still part of the ongoing investigation? Or - did a group of CSAM‘ers orchestrate the kidnapping?

We don’t know what we don’t know.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Father of .................. ex-boyfriend of LIBBY??? I thought, it was Abby's boyfriend/ex boyfriend.

Another reason that everyone should take the FM with a grain of salt.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

How many conspiracy theories do we have now?

RA has been framed by LE.
Planted bullets at the crime scene.
Hiding names of professors with opinions from evidence.
JH leaking crime scene evidence into social media.
Members of LE are Odinists protecting the real killers.
Odinist prison guards are in on it.

I am sure I’m missing several more.

 

[photographer4]

Thanks for the link to the Ausbrook interview. I haven't been watching MS regularly but really wanted to hear what this atty had to say. It's well worth every minute of listening.

I'm impressed with who the watchers of this case are.

I have never been able to listen to a podcast on any topic - they just don’t hold my attn the way things in writing do. Any chance of a super brief synopsis?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have never been able to listen to a podcast on any topic - they just don’t hold my attn the way things in writing do. Any chance of a super brief synopsis?

He supports B&R, which is what one could expect. He talked about some of the specific things about this case: MW's case for one. He thought it should not have been considered a crime.

One thing I thought was really funny was when he speculated about the different outcomes of the SC decision. He was sure that leaving the judge in place and bringing back the old D was not going to happen. How I would have loved to be there when he learned that was exactly what happened.

I'm going to listen to it again and take some notes. I'll likely be quoting him in the future.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Also wasn’t it months before the unspent cartridge was recovered?

It was not found months later.
It was found between the girls on February 14th, 2017 as per the Defense in the FM:

Page 31:

 

[mrjitty]

He supports B&R, which is what one could expect. He talked about some of the specific things about this case: MW's case for one. He thought it should not have been considered a crime.

One thing I thought was really funny was when he speculated about the different outcomes of the SC decision. He was sure that leaving the judge in place and bringing back the old D was not going to happen. How I would have loved to be there when he learned that was exactly what happened.

I'm going to listen to it again and take some notes. I'll likely be quoting him in the future.

That seemed to be a fairly common perception - I suspect none of them really looked in to the law on it? I never bothered to read Wieneke's pleading on that aspect until recently and I was quite surprised she didn't quote a single authority in support of the idea that Gull should be removed. Basically it was always a moon shot.

 

[Betty P]

I recall from the FM that the FBI report was in a summary of Click’s investigation that he attached with his letter to prosecution.

A link would be great. The only references to it that I can find in the news media is that the FBI report mentioned nothing about Odinism, only staging of the crime scene. It will all come out in the trial. Any info coming from this defense team in the pre-trial phase is taken with a grain of salt, JMO.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the prosecution brings the additional kidnapping related charges against RA at the next hearing. JMO, they should have done that from the start. Those are death penalty charges, requiring DP certified defense attorneys. Is the current defense team certified to defend clients in DP cases?

 

[susiQ]

I understand your point SusiQ, but we don’t know for sure that the line of investigation was cut off at the knees. LE and NMcL said the investigation was still in progress; other actors might be involved, and they would seek justice for all. Gag order was placed.

Defense upended that by revealing (cherrypicking imo) some facts of the investigation via the FM.

Could BH & gang have hired BG? Was that still part of the ongoing investigation? Or - did a group of CSAM‘ers orchestrate the kidnapping?

We don’t know what we don’t know.

Agreed. We are all speculating on who did this and why. We’re all ”cherry-picking” some evidence we feel supports our view in the process. Personally, I don’t think the LE are Odinists, but I believe some may be covering up for someone who dabbles in Odinism (gang related white supremacy seasoned with Nordic lore), and also belongs to another more “esteemed” fraternity. I don’t think that everything in the FM should be discounted as conspiracy theory.

As well, I think KAK may have had something to do with this, even perhaps without knowing what the outcome would be. Maybe just the fact that his AS account was being used by someone else to lure the girls or know their whereabouts that particular day. Was someone aware of his CSAM activity and blackmailed him?

We all know in certain criminal enterprises there is a hierarchy. The guys at the top of the pyramid aren’t the ones doing the “wet work.”

The CS speaks to me as well. I suspect that the way in which the girls were found reveals something. I can’t go into it here. For me, it reveals an element of respect and disrespect. Of course, I don’t mean respect as we imagine, as there was nothing respectful in what was done that day Runes also speak to those who understand the language. I don’t, but I’m sure there are experts that do.

All JMHO.

 

[photographer4]

He supports B&R, which is what one could expect. He talked about some of the specific things about this case: MW's case for one. He thought it should not have been considered a crime.

One thing I thought was really funny was when he speculated about the different outcomes of the SC decision. He was sure that leaving the judge in place and bringing back the old D was not going to happen. How I would have loved to be there when he learned that was exactly what happened.

I'm going to listen to it again and take some notes. I'll likely be quoting him in the future.

Ty!

 

[steeltowngirl]

I can understand discussion of what some consider weak evidence against RA, but some of the theories are so far-fetched.

The Delphi case is arguably among the most high-profile murder cases in Indiana‘s history. I just cannot buy in to the idea that members of LE would jeopardize their careers, potentially put away an innocent man in jail for life, and protect a real murderer - all via a pinky-swear over a pile of Odin sticks.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

By any chance does someone have a link to an FBI report for this case that specifically discusses signs of Odinism? I’ve done some searches online and can’t find anything. The only mention of it is in the filings of the defense team. TIA

The only thing I can recalled being released (and that was by error of the court clerk and removed from public access) was the FBI agent written search warrant for RL. In that the only real mention of actions at the crime scene were killer "moved and staged" the girl's bodies and also took some article(s) of clothing, possibly as a trophy. So nothing about Odinists.

I don't think any other offical court document by the FBI was ever release (except suspect information). One or two mentions of FBI possible reporting were mentioned in the, also removed from the public record, Frank's Memorandum. They were supposedly attached to the FM but confidential, so not viewable to the public. That's all I've seen/remember.

Of course there's the leaked discovery that may be out there still available to some. I've not tried to look for the Click Odinist stuff.

FBI agent: Bodies 'moved and staged' in Delphi murders, suspect took clothing

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Investigators believe the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were “moved and staged” at the Delphi murder scene, according to court documents obtained by I-Team 8. READ: See the court documents The revelation is included in a nine-page request for a search warrant...

www.wishtv.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Another reason that everyone should take the FM with a grain of salt.

JMO

A pound of salt Ravenmoon, at least a pound.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That seemed to be a fairly common perception - I suspect none of them really looked in to the law on it? I never bothered to read Wieneke's pleading on that aspect until recently and I was quite surprised she didn't quote a single authority in support of the idea that Gull should be removed. Basically it was always a moon shot.

I wish I could find the link to CW's interview on one of the podcasts or shows where she said "I really didn't think we would get an decision this soon or a win this" or something very close to that statement. She said of course she was thrilled with the outcome B&R, but that she had been worried.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

He supports B&R, which is what one could expect. He talked about some of the specific things about this case: MW's case for one. He thought it should not have been considered a crime.

Being sincere here, how could stealing and leaking highly confidential information and exploitive photos of murdered children in an ongoing investigation to others who then leaked to other and so on (and a man kills himself in the timeline there) not be considered a crime?

I think MW's working out a deal with the Prosecutor since AB threw him under the bus. I hope so, it would serve them both right.

MOO