Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[susiQ]

All JMO and my own interpretation of things. To place the blame for this ex parte situation at the feet of the Defense is dismissing the real problem here, IMO. Even if the ex parte motions were mistakenly placed on the docket unsealed (by the Defense, the clerk, whoever), they were marked as ex parte and according to established case law, and JG's own orders, Prosecutor NMcL was not supposed to look at them. Not only did NMcL look at them, several of them, he openly admitted to doing so in his motion, and further went on to name the D's requested expert within that public motion. Withdrawing his motion later, noting how the ex parte motions were visible to him, does not erase the fact that he unfortunately broke rules he should have known better. IMO, this will have to be addressed appropriately or will lead to problems down the line. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the circumstances, however. JMO.

Agree 100%. This looks very bad on him regardless of how it came about. At best, he’s incompetent. At worst, well, I know what I think. JMO

 

[TL4S]

Agree 100%. This looks very bad on him regardless of how it came about. At best, he’s incompetent. At worst, well, I know what I think. JMO

It's disheartening, IMO. People can dislike the D all they want as long as RA is getting effective counsel and his rights preserved. But when the P is conducting himself in a manner which gives a negative appearance, that must be terribly devastating to the families and LE. Both sides NEED effective representation for this to work. I think it's a sad day. JMO.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I'm looking for better screens to grab.

View attachment 489252

This I believe was closer to the bridge ( south) of the sandbar. They were walking toward MHB.

 

[Emma Peel]

All JMO and my own interpretation of things. To place the blame for this ex parte situation at the feet of the Defense is dismissing the real problem here, IMO. Even if the ex parte motions were mistakenly placed on the docket unsealed (by the Defense, the clerk, whoever), they were marked as ex parte and according to established case law, and JG's own orders, Prosecutor NMcL was not supposed to look at them. Not only did NMcL look at them, several of them, he openly admitted to doing so in his motion, and further went on to name the D's requested expert within that public motion. Withdrawing his motion later, noting how the ex parte motions were visible to him, does not erase the fact that he unfortunately broke rules he should have known better. IMO, this will have to be addressed appropriately or will lead to problems down the line. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the circumstances, however. JMO.

yeah.
imo, you nailed it.

an unethical motion embarrassment that happens whilst poking around ex partes.

(take 2 tylenol and withdraw in the morning)

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It's disheartening, IMO. People can dislike the D all they want as long as RA is getting effective counsel and his rights preserved. But when the P is conducting himself in a manner which gives a negative appearance, that must be terribly devastating to the families and LE. Both sides NEED effective representation for this to work. I think it's a sad day. JMO.

I agree. I hold both sides to ethical and moral principles. Any infractions should absolutely have consequences.
I am a little jaded by the clutching of pearls that is occurring by some about NMcl’s peeking in the cookie jar but they thought defense should be given a pass for their actions of misfiling protected motions, emailing work product to anti defense social media influencer, and their involvement in the leak of extremely sensitive crime scene photos.

 

[layer]

This I believe was closer to the bridge ( south) of the sandbar. They were walking toward MHB.

You know, the more I think about it I seem to recall someone had posted detailed records of the Deer Creek water levels, both the day of the murders and the day after. And it seems like the creek was way higher the day of the search. Anyone else remember that? It's so long ago.

 

[Boxer]

This I believe was closer to the bridge ( south) of the sandbar. They were walking toward MHB.

Agree. Thigh high mid stream.

 

[FromGermany1]

I don't understand your question as I do think you know that taxpayers are paying for both the prosecution and defense of RA. Public defense is supposed to attempt to level the playing field. Consider that the prosecutor has a staff and 2 additional attorneys that assist with this case, 2 investigators, 2 secretaries (an extra $2 million-dollar special budget). The prosecutor has labs, experts, and LE at his disposal.

If RA is convicted, and a less than adequate defense was afforded him, the victims are not served because the appeal (REQUIRED by law) will be complicated.
Personally, I'm disgusted that Carroll County has taken unnecessary chances in this trial.

bbm
Okay, I understand. RA is dependent on Public defense, and therefore he is entitled to "everything", also to special attorneys.
-.-
If you’ve followed any high-profile criminal trials in the media in recent years, you may have noticed that the defendant doesn’t just have one criminal defense attorney standing by them in the courtroom. When the defendant can afford it, there is a team of attorneys that the defendant or their lead counsel has chosen to help with their defense.
-.-
I just did understand the bbm wrong. To me it's a bit misleading (as every now and again).

 

[mrjitty]

I fully agree. It’s perplexing to me why with everything that’s gone on already they don’t just drop the charges and refile them with a clean slate and a special prosecutor.

This is already an appeal attorneys dream and there isn’t even a trial date set yet.

JMO

AFAIK you can't just go round withdrawing charges and then refiling them when it suits the prosecution better. They'd need to get the Judge to dismiss without prejudice and I don't see that they have any good faith basis to get that.

 

[TL4S]

I agree. I hold both sides to ethical and moral principles. Any infractions should absolutely have consequences.
I am a little jaded by the clutching of pearls that is occurring by some about NMcl’s peeking in the cookie jar but they thought defense should be given a pass for their actions of misfiling protected motions, emailing work product to anti defense social media influencer, and their involvement in the leak of extremely sensitive crime scene photos.

The whole case has been disheartening, IMO. It's easy to get jaded, for sure.

I guess I do think the misdoings of the D were brought to light and addressed. They weren't really given a pass, from the way I see it, but I understand it wasn't the outcome a lot of folks would have liked to see. The fact that the SCOIN did not feel what they did warranted them being DQ'd does not mean any of it was frivolous, though, IMO, only that it didn't cross a threshold. NMcL was free to file a motion of contempt and they are facing that on the 18th. It seems like the system is working to untangle that knot. But now, unfortunately, I think another knot has formed...

What I struggle with is that I find it difficult to put much faith in ANY of the parties. The D, JG and recently NMcL have all failed the girls and their families, one way or another, IMO. There's suggestions that maybe so did some of LE. Until trial, we really don't know. My derriere is stuck steadfast on the fence until trail, I fear.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

bbm
Okay, I understand. RA is dependent on Public defense, and then he is entitled to "everything", also to special attorneys.

He is not getting special treatment.
The requirements of a public defender(s) for a murder charge and mandatory appeal were established long ago and have nothing to do with RA, he is clueless. You can focus on MANY murder trials in the U.S. and develop the same resentment for this system.
Edit to add, unfortunately, must say no response should accuse or imply that this is a showing of sympathy for a murderer.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

This snippet from article below is interesting IMO. I wonder if I wish hard enough, someone could leak the contents? j/k but I am curious as to what it entails.


Snipped:
"The defense also says it received an anonymous call from a woman in Texas just last week, claiming to have about 240 pages of leaked documents and agreed to provide them."

Questions raised about how Delphi murders prosecutor learned information in private defense motion

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The whole case has been disheartening, IMO. It's easy to get jaded, for sure.

I guess I do think the misdoings of the D were brought to light and addressed. They weren't really given a pass, from the way I see it, but I understand it wasn't the outcome a lot of folks would have liked to see. The fact that the SCOIN did not feel what they did warranted them being DQ'd does not mean any of it was frivolous, though, IMO, only that it didn't cross a threshold. NMcL was free to file a motion of contempt and they are facing that on the 18th. It seems like the system is working to untangle that knot. But now, unfortunately, I think another knot has formed...

What I struggle with is that I find it difficult to put much faith in ANY of the parties. The D, JG and recently NMcL have all failed the girls and their families, one way or another, IMO. There's suggestions that maybe so did some of LE. Until trial, we really don't know. My derriere is stuck steadfast on the fence until trail, I fear.

Good post but if you don't mind, I will add to the failures you listed to the girls, that being... the failures to RA.

 

[layer]

Got it

"The defense also says it received an anonymous call from a woman in Texas just last week, claiming to have about 240 pages of leaked documents and agreed to provide them."

I saw that! WTF?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Oldie but goodie.

Gun expert and defense attorney break down new details in Delphi murder case

One of the largest areas of focus in the Delphi investigation is a single unspent bullet found near the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German in 2017.

www.wrtv.com

 

[Melted]

I might have to watch that drone/helicopter video again. I thought the sandbar area split the creek and spread it out so it was shallow enough that you could go through only about ankle deep water. But it's been 7 years, so my memory's spotty.

Eta:
I do remember the part where there were about 8 or 10 guys wearing red, linked arm in arm, in water that was nearly up their chests. If I recall they were going against the current, and my impression was they were looking upstream for something.

There was a video made by a Delphi local about a week after the murders, she walks down from the bridge to where they would of crossed (you can still see the crime scene tape across the creek).

From the video the area where they would have crossed looks very shallow and easily crossable.

I believe those search crews were in a deeper area of the creek.

 

[layer]

There was a video made by a Delphi local about a week after the murders, she walks down from the bridge to where they would of crossed (you can still see the crime scene tape across the creek).

From the video the area where they would have crossed looks very shallow and easily crossable.

I believe those search crews were in a deeper area of the creek.

They appear to be in different areas, at one point they are not all together. At another point the cameraman on the helicopter zooms out and you can see the cemetery and get your bearings on where they are. Looks to me like they are more or less near the spot where the sandbar is, but again, I think the water was higher than normal that day.

 

[FrostedGlass]

They appear to be in different areas, at one point they are not all together. At another point the cameraman on the helicopter zooms out and you can see the cemetery and get your bearings on where they are. Looks to me like they are more or less near the spot where the sandbar is, but again, I think the water was higher than normal that day.

To answer your question about the creek depth: I think it was in the FM where the defense talked about the depth of the creek that day. Maybe there's a link in the footnotes to where they got that info from. IIRC, it was said to be a little over 3' deep.

There are some pictures on the net of the creek when the water is low and the sandbar can be seen. However, the area right below the banks is still pretty deep. It would be a tough climb if they were wet and cold. If they were running through the shallow part, water would still be splashing up on them. Plus, we don't know at what point they were undressed. It's terrible to think about.

 

[layer]

@ FrostedGlass
No, this was contemporaneous, long before there was any defense. I'm thinking that first week or two after the murders. Someone on here had access to the actual hydrographic and river flow gauge data and posted it.
I'm digging...

Eta:
I found this, but still looking for more (like the data referred to in this post)

 

[somequestions]

There’s a preponderance of evidence that there was a gun there and then. A girl thinks she sees a gun and says so. LE identifies the racking of a slide on the full audio if not the released version. An ejected but unfired cartridge is found between the bodies. This cartridge has scratchings that very strongly point to it having come from the individual weapon owned by the defendant and found in the search of his house. It can only have come from a .40 caliber weapon at any rate. Its placement associates it with the crime.

With any set of data points, in math or in life, you have freedom to interpolate the connections between them. Possibilities are infinite. Malevolent global conspiracies, leprechauns, corrupt cops…

There are guidelines for how to stay real. One of the best is a thing called Occam’s Razor. If you can explain the hard data points without recourse to fairies, do so. Most things are just what they look like. No, not everything is what it seems at first, but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck…

I think this case will come down to the confessions made by Richard Allen after he was arrested. If the jury thinks the confessions are genuine, then he will probably spend the rest of his life in prison. If they do not feel the confessions are genuine or want proof to back them up, then it might be difficult to get a unanimous decision of guilty. If Richard Allen is found guilty, the prosecution should send him a thank you note for helping them out.

It is hard to believe police arrested the wrong person because of what that would mean. The real killer would still be out there somewhere. I still look at the picture from Liberty German's phone video and it does not look like Richard Allen to me, but I admit the video is too grainy to be able to confidently identify someone.