Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[girlhasnoname]

I don’t do Fakebook, as you call it, or social media in general. Just sayin’. Drug making, dealing, using and murder are not necessarily unrelated. Anyone heard of Kokomo? JMHO

I have heard of Kokomo, but just in terms of geography. Did something related happen in Kokomo?

MOO

 

[dmac55]

I have heard of Kokomo, but just in terms of geography. Did something related happen in Kokomo?

MOO

Kokomo, Indiana

 

[susiQ]

What's the thing with the "forensically aware" and the phone? Didn't he say he was watching a stock ticker on the phone on the trails at some point? Confused, wouldn't that mean he had a phone? Okay, I think I see. So he would say he had the phone, but in actuality, he did not have it? Is that the idea?

Yes, exactly. Which is it? Will the evidence show he didn’t bring his phone because he was forensically aware, or was he on his phone as he claimed watching stocks? If it can be shown that he was walking the trails and bridge, had his phone and was watching stocks, I just don’t think he was consumed thinking about how he was going to slaughter two young girls in the next hour.

The P is holding up this trial, dragging it out any which way possible and the longer they do this, the longer we don’t know the truth of it. Is there really enough evidence to convict RA or even put forward a plausible argument for his guilt BARD? I don’t see it, and apparently his defense team doesn’t either and they want to fight to have him released. I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, this case stinks and I suspect RA is nothing more than a scapegoat to protect the true killers. His only crime, if one can call it that, was going to the trails on a beautiful day. If he dies in prison, it all goes away for the P. It’s in their best interest to keep him there until he breaks. I don’t find it a coincidence that RA finds himself in the horrible condition he is in at the moment with the likes of hardcore Odinists guarding over him. So how about the P withdraws its silly charge against R & B claiming contemptuous behaviour and get on with it! If you have the solid goods Nick, show everyone what you’re made of!
JMHO

 

[susiQ]

If others are involved then RA is covering for them through fear or allegience. The crime he is charged with occurs on the bridge.

MOO he acted alone impulsively and was making an attempt to cover the bodies when DM showed up shouting for the girls so RA stopped and made his wsy out by the road, not the trail where he heard the calling.

I don’t for one minute think RA is covering for anyone at all. As they say, three men can keep a secret if two of them are dead! As it turns out, EF couldn’t keep the secret. There’s a German saying, “Kinder und Narren sagen die wahrheit,” Loosely translated, “Children and fools tell the truth.” EF had the mind of a child and he is an utter fool.

If this ever gets close to a trial, I have a feeling some people aren’t going to make it. JMHO

 

[susiQ]

RSBM

RSBBM
<Four attorneys believe RA to be innocent. That’s something. They’ve all seen the discovery. It will be interesting to see what NMcC has that will place RA at the CS, AS THE KILLER.>

Four DEFENSE attorneys who were appointed and paid to defend RA have made this claim (Lebrato is still debatable to me). What else are they going to possibly say other than their client is innocent?

Yes, they are appointed and paid. Do we think NMcL works for free? These attorneys aren’t just saying they “think” RA is innocent, they actually believe it! Lebrato could not have been more clear in his interview. His statement about upholding a man’s right to be considered innocent until proven guilty was just a statement of fact. That’s how the system is supposed to work. I’m not asking people here in a discussion group to uphold that bar. It’s a discussion group and we are allowed to put forward our speculation within reason.

How do we know that LE didn't go after EF's phone (if he had one) or what process they used to eliminate him or any of the other POIs? I'm pretty sure DNA was taken from just about anybody LE considered a legitimate, possibility.

Possibly, but I’m not convinced it was done. Heck, even the DNA from EF, is it still around or did it get “lost.” That wouldn’t surprise me in the least. I just wonder how MANY things have been lost, misplaced or destroyed or never done!

The State has not disclosed their investigative actions, nor do they have to, nor should they. We must wait until trial to hear for ourselves how they've concluded RA=BG=Killer.

Yes, I’m looking forward to it, if it ever gets to trial and pertinent witnesses live to see it. At the moment, it looks like the State is pulling out anything they can find in their little bag of tricks to prevent that from happening in the near future, if ever.
All JMHO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes, exactly. Which is it? Will the evidence show he didn’t bring his phone because he was forensically aware, or was he on his phone as he claimed watching stocks? If it can be shown that he was walking the trails and bridge, had his phone and was watching stocks, I just don’t think he was consumed thinking about how he was going to slaughter two young girls in the next hour.

The P is holding up this trial, dragging it out any which way possible and the longer they do this, the longer we don’t know the truth of it. Is there really enough evidence to convict RA or even put forward a plausible argument for his guilt BARD? I don’t see it, and apparently his defense team doesn’t either and they want to fight to have him released. I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, this case stinks and I suspect RA is nothing more than a scapegoat to protect the true killers. His only crime, if one can call it that, was going to the trails on a beautiful day. If he dies in prison, it all goes away for the P. It’s in their best interest to keep him there until he breaks. I don’t find it a coincidence that RA finds himself in the horrible condition he is in at the moment with the likes of hardcore Odinists guarding over him. So how about the P withdraws its silly charge against R & B claiming contemptuous behaviour and get on with it! If you have the solid goods Nick, show everyone what you’re made of!
JMHO

So how about the P withdraws its silly charge against R & B claiming contemptuous behaviour and get on with it! If you have the solid goods Nick, show everyone what you’re made of!

Because it’s not a silly charge. The state of Indiana has an obligation to pursue penalty against state appointed attorneys that behave recklessly and negligent causing CSAM crime scene photos to be leaked. The state of Indiana could be sued by the victims’ families for allowing this to occur. If they were to just turn a blind eye to this crime then they could face even more staggering financial penalties handed out by a jury in the future. The proper thing to do is pursue charges against all parties that played a part in this horrific offense. Attorneys don’t have immunity.
IMO Judge G was trying to allow new defense for RA specifically for this reason. She suspected the state was going to pursue charges against <modsnip: Name changes or derogatory terms for individuals is not allowed>; the outcome of that would affect their client. Lebrato and Scremin could be preparing for RA’s trial right now instead of his <modsnip: Name changes or derogatory terms for individuals is not allowed> team scrambling to save their own behinds.
If I wss RA I would have asked for new attorneys once the leak occurred but unfortunately he is getting legal advice from people that are self serving.
Don Hennessey’s language and misspellings in his recent filing just furthers my belief that this is all a game to the defense. They are not interested in getting RA a fair trial. They are interested in sensational media interest.
I am eager for this to get to trial but not willing allow blatant contempt to be ignored for that to happen.
IMO

 

[nadia90]

I think ra will plea out to avoid death penalty

 

[photographer4]

What's the thing with the "forensically aware" and the phone? Didn't he say he was watching a stock ticker on the phone on the trails at some point? Confused, wouldn't that mean he had a phone? Okay, I think I see. So he would say he had the phone, but in actuality, he did not have it? Is that the idea?

He did, but did the phone necessarily have to be *his*? Could he theoretically have obtained a device from say KK or some associate at say... the Marathon Gas Station nearest the crime scene? Done the crime then handed it back to someone at some point post crime? It might be very interesting that HIS phone has no evidence to the crime scene.

The biggest most interesting thing to me is that a witness saw a "muddy" man who may have been bloody and appeared as though he'd been in a fight walking post crime - IF that was RA and he got into his car, there is (in my view) NO WAY he didn't have a transfer of evidence from the scene to the car or from the car to the scene. But yet still nothing ties him to the scene via DNA per his legal team - so IS RA the killer? Or, did he "just" abduct them? Or was he just a man at the bridge who didn't see anything?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I have heard of Kokomo, but just in terms of geography. Did something related happen in Kokomo?

MOO

Nothing that happened in Kokomo is known to be related to the murders. There were multiple drug bust operations in Kokomo. Drugs and crime often go hand-in-hand. Just a lot of pretty bad people involved, and just like in the Lyric and Elizabeth case, or with Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman, theories popped up that drugs might somehow be connected.

Kokomo police arrest 45 people in second phase of methamphetamine crackdown

KOKOMO, Ind. – Authorities in Kokomo announced dozens of arrests in a massive drug roundup aimed at curbing the spread of methamphetamine in the area. Operation Law and Order Part 2 began on June 1…

fox59.com

 

[susiQ]

Nothing that happened in Kokomo is known to be related to the murders. There were multiple drug bust operations in Kokomo. Drugs and crime often go hand-in-hand. Just a lot of pretty bad people involved, and just like in the Lyric and Elizabeth case, or with Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman, theories popped up that drugs might somehow be connected.

Kokomo police arrest 45 people in second phase of methamphetamine crackdown

KOKOMO, Ind. – Authorities in Kokomo announced dozens of arrests in a massive drug roundup aimed at curbing the spread of methamphetamine in the area. Operation Law and Order Part 2 began on June 1…

fox59.com

One of my theories (yes, I have others), is revenge and that’s where I’ll leave it. May or may not have anything to do with what’s going on in Kokomo. It seems to be a problem in other areas down there too, Delphi included. My point was, where drugs are involved (making, dealing, stealing, ratting out associates or whatever) it can end up with someone dead. Again, it’s only ONE of my theories. These types can be utterly ruthless. I personally know officers who have had to deal with the fallout. Some CS’s have left them on extended leave for PTSD. It’s nasty. To be clear, I do not believe A & L had anything to do with drugs and where innocent victims, sheep led to the slaughter. I just don’t believe it was a random killing .

I have to wonder if LE made any connections at all between RA and the drug organization down there in Delphi? Or, perhaps the Odinist white supremest group that like to dabble with Runes?

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Its confat

Nothing that happened in Kokomo is known to be related to the murders. There were multiple drug bust operations in Kokomo. Drugs and crime often go hand-in-hand. Just a lot of pretty bad people involved, and just like in the Lyric and Elizabeth case, or with Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman, theories popped up that drugs might somehow be connected.

Kokomo police arrest 45 people in second phase of methamphetamine crackdown

KOKOMO, Ind. – Authorities in Kokomo announced dozens of arrests in a massive drug roundup aimed at curbing the spread of methamphetamine in the area. Operation Law and Order Part 2 began on June 1…

fox59.com

Conflation of bad thing here and bad things there is just to confuse for the sake of creating content for argument.

 

[mrjitty]

guys as i already said ‘forensically aware’ was sarcasm.

 

[steeltowngirl]

One of my theories (yes, I have others), is revenge and that’s where I’ll leave it. May or may not have anything to do with what’s going on in Kokomo. It seems to be a problem in other areas down there too, Delphi included. My point was, where drugs are involved (making, dealing, stealing, ratting out associates or whatever) it can end up with someone dead. Again, it’s only ONE of my theories. These types can be utterly ruthless. I personally know officers who have had to deal with the fallout. Some CS’s have left them on extended leave for PTSD. It’s nasty. To be clear, I do not believe A & L had anything to do with drugs and where innocent victims, sheep led to the slaughter. I just don’t believe it was a random killing .

I have to wonder if LE made any connections at all between RA and the drug organization down there in Delphi? Or, perhaps the Odinist white supremest group that like to dabble with Runes?

MOO

If others were involved, I lean towards connections to teen predators / CSAM. There have been many theories. Drugs, revenge, jealousy, silencing, anger. Many believe he acted alone, with a sexual motive, or rage. He had a really bad day, and happened upon them. I hope to learn of a motive, and I think a jury will want one, but it’s not a requirement for prosecution.

jmo

 

[Boxer]

If others were involved, I lean towards connections to teen predators / CSAM. There have been many theories. Drugs, revenge, jealousy, silencing, anger. Many believe he acted alone, with a sexual motive, or rage. He had a really bad day, and happened upon them. I hope to learn of a motive, and I think a jury will want one, but it’s not a requirement for prosecution.

jmo

My theory is first convict RA, and if others involved and maybe he will roll on them for a package of soup.

 

[susane7]

I believe he acted alone. I think maybe he always fantasized with something like that and had lurked the trails before but on that day the opportunity worked for him and he acted, unfortunately. I think the motive was something like a sexual motive( don't need to have SA to be a sexual motive)/fullfill a fantasize/thrilling killing.

 

[Boxer]

I believe he acted alone. I think maybe he always fantasized with something like that and had lurked the trails before but on that day the opportunity worked for him and he acted, unfortunately. I think the motive was something like a sexual motive( don't need to have SA to be a sexual motive)/fullfill a fantasize/thrilling killing

Agree 100% crime of opportunity.

 

[steeltowngirl]

My theory is first convict RA, and if others involved and maybe he will roll on them for a package of soup.

I like it.

 

[zh0r4]

The first time I read that, many moons ago, I wondered why they thought this was unusual.

RL’s home is right there. The girls were found on his property.

Why is it impossible to think this isn’t normal? Of course his phone pinged in the area. He lives there!

MOO

My understanding according to the FBI SW, the issue is RL said he was at the fish shop almost an hour away instead of on his property but his phone pinged at his property/not the fish shop.

 

[girlhasnoname]

RSBM

Yes, they are appointed and paid. Do we think NMcL works for free? These attorneys aren’t just saying they “think” RA is innocent, they actually believe it! Lebrato could not have been more clear in his interview. His statement about upholding a man’s right to be considered innocent until proven guilty was just a statement of fact. That’s how the system is supposed to work. I’m not asking people here in a discussion group to uphold that bar. It’s a discussion group and we are allowed to put forward our speculation within reason.

I never said the Defense is not entitled to be paid just like the State's attorney is, although B&R are the ones who professed they'd represent Defendant RA Pro Bono because they were so emotionally invested in RA and his family. They said that and stated that in quite a few motions, but that quickly changed.

Of course that is what any Defense team is going to say of their client. He/she is 100% innocent of all these charges and we are going to prove it. I agree that is their job and wouldn't expect less, but we can't say for certainty they personally really believe it or not. Just because they say it loud enough and to enough journalists, SM podcasters and YTers does not make it true. Most of the cases I have followed where the Defense proclaimed this ended up in a guilty verdict.

Possibly, but I’m not convinced it was done. Heck, even the DNA from EF, is it still around or did it get “lost.” That wouldn’t surprise me in the least. I just wonder how MANY things have been lost, misplaced or destroyed or never done!

Possibly, but we still can't state either way if and how EF (or any of the other POI's) were cleared.

Yes, I’m looking forward to it, if it ever gets to trial and pertinent witnesses live to see it. At the moment, it looks like the State is pulling out anything they can find in their little bag of tricks to prevent that from happening in the near future, if ever.
All JMHO

And I see the Defense doing all the dirty tricks to keep this delayed as long as possible because they are nowhere ready for trial. They are also grinding out Motions, actually more than the State at this point. Why doesn't the D pull out their dusty MST they've been carrying around for 6 months if they are so ready? We've all been waiting on it since their SCOIN argument and their reinstatement.

It's all so subjective, not personal, so we can respect opinions and agree to disagree no problem.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, I’m looking forward to it, if it ever gets to trial and pertinent witnesses live to see it. At the moment, it looks like the State is pulling out anything they can find in their little bag of tricks to prevent that from happening in the near future, if ever.
All JMHO

RSBM. But this is not a thing. The defence can simply file their speedy trial motion and force a trial within 70 days. I get why they waited for SCOIN to issue its reasons, but now they know they can't recuse the judge, there is no real reason not to fast track the trial if that supposedly was their strategy.

They are in the same position they were in back in October.