Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

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why do you say D removal train?

i think SCOIN has already settled that the defence cannot be removed in these circumstances
But did the evidence LE gathered in their investigation of the leaked discovery even get presented in the SC case? I suppose sanctions (probably not removal unless criminal action is proven?) can still be brought since the old/new are being charged with contempt. Up to the judge to decide the correct sanction(s) after hearing all the evidence on both sides?
 
But did the evidence LE gathered in their investigation of the leaked discovery even get presented in the SC case? I suppose sanctions (probably not removal unless criminal action is proven?) can still be brought since the old/new are being charged with contempt. Up to the judge to decide the correct sanction(s) after hearing all the evidence on both sides?

sure but i guess the sanctions will just be a fine and a telling off.
 
Yes we don't know what other injuries the girls may have suffered too. It's possible one was even knock unconcious so the killer could concentrate on the other. :(
Good point. D’s Franks memo would probably not mention any such injury as it undercuts the premise that RA could not have acted alone. Cynical.
 
Oh this is just something considering the motion the Prosecution just filed about the D not handing over their discovery by the deadline and other missing information.

From your link...

”I think the defense is doing the right thing in making a list of everything that they haven’t been given, so, it’s in the record so everyone from here on out can see everything that they have not been given so far,” said attorney John Tompkins, who is not connected to the case..."
 
Good point. D’s Franks memo would probably not mention any such injury as it undercuts the premise that RA could not have acted alone. Cynical.
Interesting since in the article posted above by Caylee Advocate the Prosecutor himself states that investigators do not believe RA acted alone.

“During a hearing in November, McLeland shocked the courtroom by announcing that investigators believe Allen did not act alone in allegedly committing the murders, yet no other names have been directly connected to the murders.”

So, that’s that!

 
why do you say D removal train?

i think SCOIN has already settled that the defence cannot be removed in these circumstances
!!
I meant to mention Ausbrook; and so I'll eta here:

Ausbrook's hovering over the Contempt Motion ... for appellate purposes.
Does a civil contempt fine warrant Ausbrook's attention? (I don't think so.)
So what does?
 
The Defense Attorneys, Appellate Attorneys and now Ausbrrok and Hennessy have all been spouting barely disguised disdain for the Judge, The Court, and the State's Prosecutor. I believe they think it's a game, it is not. Show some respect to the very legal system in which you have sworn an oath to uphold ethically.

We are talking about the heinous double murder of 2 innocent young girls. If anyone has forgotten about Abby & Libby, I'd say it's them.

It will backfire in the long run when the trial is over and RA (and ?) is found guilty. How are they going to get their clicks and likes and $$$ for their book deals (BMcD), podcasts, and tv appearances when the public has their verdict and finally #Justice4Abby&Libby?

They will be long forgotten, except for their actions and words, which are forever recorded in their unprofessional Memos and Motions and possible Contempt Charges.

MOO
How many other Indiana attorneys coming forward and ISC opinions do you need before you can admit that Judge Gull has handled certain things poorly? I’m not saying that she’s part of a conspiracy or that she’s purposefully trying to screw RA over or even that she’s doing a bad job overall but she has made some bad decisions. That’s a fact. It’s frustrating to see people accuse attorneys who have given their time and expertise to right those wrongs in a case they’re not even on of doing it for fame and publicity.
 
How many other Indiana attorneys coming forward and ISC opinions do you need before you can admit that Judge Gull has handled certain things poorly? I’m not saying that she’s part of a conspiracy or that she’s purposefully trying to screw RA over or even that she’s doing a bad job overall but she has made some bad decisions. That’s a fact. It’s frustrating to see people accuse attorneys who have given their time and expertise to right those wrongs in a case they’re not even on of doing it for fame and publicity.
As I've stated many times here freely, Judge Gull did not handle the DQ of the original Defense procedurally correct. I have never denied that, although I think she was trying to give them an opportunity to withdraw without publicly holding the hearing. Bad move on her part she should have forced the hearing in open Court. IMO

It's frustrating to see every day how lousy the Prosecution is and how Judge Gull is biased against RA and that she's holding up the poor Defense. The SCOIN unanimously agreed that she was NOT biased against RA or the Defense and denied the Motion to Recuse her.

I think these defense attorneys who have given their time and expertise are doing it for the fame and publicity. Why else are they on every Podcast and Twitter and talkshow about how hard they're working to right such an egregious wrong? They don't have to advertise their 'expertise' on Twitter, Instagram, CourtTV and Podcasts. Clicks and likes = $$$$$$

MOO
 
!!
I meant to mention Ausbrook; and so I'll eta here:

Ausbrook's hovering over the Contempt Motion ... for appellate purposes.
Does a civil contempt fine warrant Ausbrook's attention? (I don't think so.)
So what does?
From his filing and a few other things I’ve read, it doesn’t sound like this situation can’t be anything except for indirect criminal contempt. Ausbrook argues that the prosecution isn't following the correct procedure— such as filing it under RA’s case instead of its own— and that means Judge Gull wouldn’t have the right to find them in contempt or sanction them. If she does do that without the appropriate procedure, he says she will be violating his 6th and 14th amendments and he could file for federal habeas relief which is Ausbrook’s specialty and I believe he also alluded to potentially another original action with ISC.
 
From his filing and a few other things I’ve read, it doesn’t sound like this situation can’t be anything except for indirect criminal contempt. Ausbrook argues that the prosecution isn't following the correct procedure— such as filing it under RA’s case instead of its own— and that means Judge Gull wouldn’t have the right to find them in contempt or sanction them. If she does do that without the appropriate procedure, he says she will be violating his 6th and 14th amendments and he could file for federal habeas relief which is Ausbrook’s specialty and I believe he also alluded to potentially another original action with ISC.
I guess we'll have to wait a couple of weeks to find out if it's ruled direct or indirect criminal or civil contempt, but I would be surprised if Judge Gull hasn't covered her legal bases on this considering the last SCOIN argument.

JMO

EBM: Added word for clarification
 
As I've stated many times here freely, Judge Gull did not handle the DQ of the original Defense procedurally correct. I have never denied that, although I think she was trying to give them an opportunity to withdraw without publicly holding the hearing. Bad move on her part she should have forced the hearing in open Court. IMO

It's frustrating to see every day how lousy the Prosecution is and how Judge Gull is biased against RA and that she's holding up the poor Defense. The SCOIN unanimously agreed that she was NOT biased against RA or the Defense and denied the Motion to Recuse her.

I think these defense attorneys who have given their time and expertise are doing it for the fame and publicity. Why else are they on every Podcast and Twitter and talkshow about how hard they're working to right such an egregious wrong? They don't have to advertise their 'expertise' on Twitter, Instagram, CourtTV and Podcasts. Clicks and likes = $$$$$$

MOO
I agree the evidence didn’t show she had a bias against them or RA at the time the OA was filed. IMO there’s some additional evidence now but it’s still unlikely to be enough to prove bias.

So, if anyone goes on a podcast or talks about their work on social media it means they’re only doing it for publicity? Clicks and likes only equals money if you’re monetized, regularly make content, and are successful at it. I’m not sure who you’re talking about but I only know of a couple of “outside” attorneys involved with this case who have been a guest somewhere so I’m confused by you saying they’re on every podcast and talk show. Most of them haven’t been a guest anywhere and I highly doubt any of the ones who have were paid to do so. But, even if any of them have been paid, it would likely pale in comparison to the number of hours it required someone like Cara Wieneke to complete 2 OAs. But, again, I would be surprised if any of them made money on it.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.
 
From his filing and a few other things I’ve read, it doesn’t sound like this situation can’t be anything except for indirect criminal contempt. Ausbrook argues that the prosecution isn't following the correct procedure— such as filing it under RA’s case instead of its own— and that means Judge Gull wouldn’t have the right to find them in contempt or sanction them. If she does do that without the appropriate procedure, he says she will be violating his 6th and 14th amendments and he could file for federal habeas relief which is Ausbrook’s specialty and I believe he also alluded to potentially another original action with ISC.
I’m glad you brought this up because I was just thinking about this earlier. If someone’s attorney of choice commits a crime and is then unable to represent the client then does the client’s 6th amendment rights carry more weight than consequences for the attorney?
I mean is being a public defender a stay out of jail free card as long as they have a client facing trial?

Seems like you could have a shady criminal and a shady lawyer and they could just keep each other out of jail this way.
 
It's frustrating to see every day how lousy the Prosecution is and how Judge Gull is biased against RA and that she's holding up the poor Defense. The SCOIN unanimously agreed that she was NOT biased against RA or the Defense and denied the Motion to Recuse her.


MOO
RSBM

@girlhasnoname

In their written opinion, the SC judges were not unequivocally stating that JG was unbiased (IMO), but rather that the Defense had not met the burden required by the applicable Indiana rule. Namely, that Defense had not identified specific facts showing bias/prejudice. The judges weren't saying that JG was not, in fact, biased. They also weren't saying she was. Rather, they were stating that the Defense had not highlighted any facts that would lead to such a conclusion of bias/prejudice. The only showing of facts on record to support such was the adverse ruling JG made regarding the DQ.

The Court stated the rule(s) as follows:
  • We begin with the presumption that a trial judge is unbiased. Smith v. State, 770 N.E.2d 818, 823 (Ind. 2002).
  • To overcome that presumption, the party seeking disqualification must identify facts reflecting the judge’s actual bias or prejudice. Id.
  • Our law is well settled that “[p]rejudice is not inferred from adverse judicial rulings.” Zavodnik v. Harper, 17 N.E.3d 259, 269 (Ind. 2014)
  • "...judicial remarks during the course of a trial that are critical or disapproving of, or even hostile to the parties, or their cases, ordinarily do not support a bias or partiality challenge.” Noble v. State, 725 N.E.2d 842, 848 (Ind. 2000)

So, the courts of Indiana start from the presumption of judicial impartiality, and one must then specifically outline the facts which the defendant feel show alleged bias.

Anyways, not trying to argue or be difficult. But the distinction is important.

See at pg. 15: https://public.courts.in.gov/Decisi...w0N5f1k5NjXezrOt02MdSk7tzOjXnR6SVtncFrbE60HI0
 
So, what do we make of the 13 additional Indiana Lawyers entering the Contempt proceedings as Defense witnesses and affiants?

'cuz, now we know that's happening. With 4 of them on the witness stand.

And - also - from today's filings, it appears the Judge took immediate notice and immediate action - issuing (an immediate) Order that these witness' exhibits be submitted March 7th ...
 
Interesting since in the article posted above by Caylee Advocate the Prosecutor himself states that investigators do not believe RA acted alone.

“During a hearing in November, McLeland shocked the courtroom by announcing that investigators believe Allen did not act alone in allegedly committing the murders, yet no other names have been directly connected to the murders.”

So, that’s that!

I think the accomplices, if there were any, maybe were part of the lure to get the girls on the trails...possibly a meet and greet. Just some thoughts.
 
From his filing and a few other things I’ve read, it doesn’t sound like this situation can’t be anything except for indirect criminal contempt. Ausbrook argues that the prosecution isn't following the correct procedure— such as filing it under RA’s case instead of its own— and that means Judge Gull wouldn’t have the right to find them in contempt or sanction them. If she does do that without the appropriate procedure, he says she will be violating his 6th and 14th amendments and he could file for federal habeas relief which is Ausbrook’s specialty and I believe he also alluded to potentially another original action with ISC.
exactly. :)

To my eye, it seems we have a play for Ausbrook (interlocutory/Habeas) ... and a play for Wieneke (assuming she'd go to SCOIN returning to the prior case with some type of interpretation motion).
So, I'm wondering - which play first? Or will they move on both?
 
!!
I meant to mention Ausbrook; and so I'll eta here:

Ausbrook's hovering over the Contempt Motion ... for appellate purposes.
Does a civil contempt fine warrant Ausbrook's attention? (I don't think so.)
So what does?
Maybe he's worried it could involved a criminal charge? What comes to mind as a possible...IF AB knowingly leaked discovery? Would that be criminal and not just ethics?
 
I'm a bit stuck on these recent plays from the Bench (both at the same time yesterday):

Gull's decision on Ausbrook's Dismissal Motion was:
"Reviewed and denied without hearing". (No reason provided.)

and


Gull's decision on Hennessey's Clarification Request as to the Prosecution's Contempt Motion was:
"Reviewed and denied because the Court has scheduled a hearing on the State's pleading."


As to Ausbrook's Dismissal Motion (the 1st):

Appreciate that this is a brush-off. Now there's a record that Gull acknowledges she reviewed the Ausbrook legal arguments related to the Prosecutions erroneously formed Contempt thing-a-ma-jig. I feel like Ausbrook takes the (relative) win that his filing was reviewed and formally acknowledged.

As to Hennessey's Clarification (the 2nd):
This one's not as straightforward. Are there three possible interpretations?

a) Is Gull saying that she's scheduled a "clarification/procedural" hearing as to the State's Pleading format itself? (Given the Ausbrook acknowledgement.)

b) Or is Gull saying she's holding a hearing and she'll figure it out from the bench so be ready to proceed regardless.

c) Or is Gull's decision that she is holding the Contempt hearing and therefore Hennessey's Clarification Request is irrelevant?

Any thoughts?

(also, @AugustWest who just popped in the thread not too long ago ... )
 
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