Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[snooptroop88]

I still stand behind my statement that just because the Defense says it, it doesn't make it true. They have proven to have exaggerated and stretched the truth to put it as kindly as possible.

Turco was interviewed shortly after the murders when all of LE was investigating the supposed "Odinism" angle. They found it more likely to be someone who was trying to portray or mimic that, so they investigated and dismissed the idea. Why would any of them have total recall of Prof Turco almost 7 years later? They've investigated thousand of tips and many others since then.

Of course, this is just my interpretation.

Agreed on this, too. I'm not saying the prosecution's strutting around with halos here, but the defense has already done enough in my eyes to raise red flags, jmo.

 

[layer]

Lat 40 35' 21.4" Long 86 38' 23.3"
These numbers are repeated twice in the first paragraph.

Well sure, they buried it in the first paragraph.
Twice.
Gah

 

[DeDee]

IMO, the P withheld possible exculpatory discovery related to the D's theory until the D accidentally followed clues that let them to ask the right questions and figure out that there was more discovery related to their theory. For example, the geotracker stuff did not make it into the Franks Motion/Memo b/c D didn't receive that info when discovery was due.

I don't know about a roadmap, but the D is making sure, and getting on the record, that they believe P has not been timely nor forthcoming with regard to giving them relevant discovery and evidence.

This is NOT how discovery goes.

Maybe the Prosecution has good reason to hold that information back. Maybe things were lost. Maybe the FBI had the geotracker stuff and they didn't know to ask for it. We'll see. JMHO.

I can go for that explanation of it being a way of tracking the case for appeal. It doesn't explain why the P hasn't given anything on DG, tho. He was the person sent to pick the girls up from their excursion to MHB. Odd that there may not be anything, any report, any statement about him at all. MOO

 

[photographer4]

What was it? 100 numbers?

We already know a number of people who were there that day. I didn't catch what the collection window was -- if it comprised the whole afternoon, the majority of those numbers would tie to searchers.

I'm not sure how Geo fence tracing works and what LE is and isn't allowed to do with that information without subsequent warrants so.... would they be able to see that a particular phone arrived at a parking lot, entered onto a trail, eventually left? Or do they just get a list of phone numbers?

LE is obligated to protect the privacy of law-abiding citizens which has to be tricky when they don't know which number, if any, belongs to the perpetrator.

How does LE track down the owners of said phone numbers? Call 'em up? Who are you? Are you a killer?

How would LE know a second phone belonged to a victim? Unless geo-fencing somehow pinged at least its last known GPS point. Not sure how GF works!

Could they track a number that was in use at about, what, 1:55 on the first platform?

And another, moving across the bridge at 2:07? Two actually.

Or am I assigning powers to GF that don't exist?

Still, I believe that RA had a phone. Just not his own. And between Libby and Abby, there were two.

JMO

If the geo fence victim phone had also lit up any other time that day they may have an idea of who had it - eg: could they geofence around Libby’s home to see where devices in that household went that day? Could they then follow it to the trail along with her normal phone?

Same idea for Abby’s house hold. Could they see where the devices from her household were at? Maybe if she had a secret phone they could see it leave her home with her when she went to stay the night at Libby’s?

Not sure how it all works. Just a thought.

 

[photographer4]

Seriously, if the people whose phones were in this area around the time of the murders had nothing to do with the murders nor witnessed anything, WTF?

Right? And did they call and self report that they’d been there? Or did LE have to somehow track them down? And what if there were some they couldn’t figure out who they were??

 

[photographer4]

Point 30 in Motion to Compel states:
View attachment 490280

So it can’t be searchers then.

 

[DeDee]

I think Abby might have had an older phone or iPad given to her that her Mom didn't know about. Young preteen girls are not going to be without a phone if they can help it.

Makes sense to me.

JMO

Who would provide a cellphone for Abby while knowing her mother's preference was to wait a little longer? That's considered devious behavior so surely that has not happened here.
Her mom stated that Abby had a tablet, iirc. BP stated once that Libby would sit at their breakfast table in comms with Abby. Can't you just picture the young girls on their devices enjoying their friendship and breakfast?
MOO

 

[Schatz]

So it can’t be searchers then.

Nope.

 

[DeDee]

So it can’t be searchers then.

Nope.

Could one of them be Ron Logan's phone? He was outside near the CS area at 2:09pm.

 

[Megnut]

Could one of them be Ron Logan's phone? He was outside near the CS area at 2:09pm.

Let's try this: RL, maybe 1
Libby, 1 maybe 2
RA, maybe 1
Walker, 1
Juveniles, maybe a couple
The couple arguing below the bridge, maybe 2
Was there also a flannel shirt guy?
Externinstor guy?

That's maybe a dozen phones right there.

 

[layer]

More from the RL Warrant:

LG and AW had no visible signs of a struggle or fight.

I never saw that before, it's a relief.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Let's try this: RL, maybe 1
Libby, 1 maybe 2
RA, maybe 1
Walker, 1
Juveniles, maybe a couple
The couple arguing below the bridge, maybe 2
Was there also a flannel shirt guy?
Externinstor guy?

That's maybe a dozen phones right there.

Please add the woman and her friend that were taking photos as well.
Both of their names begin with "C".


Let's also remember that DG was there just after 3, and he called BP and TG. I am not sure when they got there.

 

[WildHuncher]

He really didn’t dare fire that pistol.

 

[photographer4]

Let's try this: RL, maybe 1
Libby, 1 maybe 2
RA, maybe 1
Walker, 1
Juveniles, maybe a couple
The couple arguing below the bridge, maybe 2
Was there also a flannel shirt guy?
Externinstor guy?

That's maybe a dozen phones right there.

Dg arrives. His phone is on him cause he was calling Libby.

ETA someone else counted him just now.

 

[mrjitty]

Seriously, if the people whose phones were in this area around the time of the murders had nothing to do with the murders nor witnessed anything, WTF?

right

so obviously that isn’t what happened.

 

[mrjitty]

Agreed on this, too. I'm not saying the prosecution's strutting around with halos here, but the defense has already done enough in my eyes to raise red flags, jmo.

i think there is a danger of taking the statements in the motion way too literally

e.g. I suspect the data is not able to show who was within a defined radius from a fixed point - rather the motion refers to estimated positions of various phones at various point in time - calculated from remote tower(s)

Especially i assume that the geofence warrant includes much more data concerning the bridge and trails - given the LE knew that is where the victims were abducted from, it is technically one of the two crime scenes in this case.

 

[twall]

Today’s motion for continuance filed by Attorney David Hennessy claims that Indiana State Police and McLeland were tardy in supplying interviews of social media posters that began in early October of last year when the leak was first discovered. The motion asserts that the defense team received those interviews only this week, leaving it little time to examine or confirm the statements contained within before Monday’s hearing which will partially rely on arguments that Baldwin and Rozzi were careless with case evidence.

The motion quotes an Indiana State trooper telling social media posters that their failure to cooperate with the investigation could result in contempt of court charges and the man who was the first recipient of the leaked photographs took his own life after the ISP interview.

The motion also alleges, but provides no verification, that one social media poster told an ISP detective that, “She also revealed that a person known to her had hired a private investigator to follow Mr. McLeland.”

Delphi defense team attorney seeks postponement of Monday’s contempt of court hearing

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — A lawyer representing Delphi double murder suspect Richard Allen’s defense team has filed a motion seeking continuance of a hearing before Special Judge Fran Gull Monda…

fox59.com

This motion was filed 03/13 and is not showing on the docket yet but DD did a live on it and reads/shows it.

 

[zh0r4]

You replied to Sunsetbeach who was replying to me, the OP. I'm sorry you're confused. Every poster here has an opportunity to make their stance, as long as it's done within the terms of TOS.

<snipped>
Early on in the investigation, authorities consulted with a Purdue University professor concerning what resembled possible Odinism signatures left behind at the crime scene, the defense attorneys wrote. But that angle was "essentially abandoned" after the professor told law enforcement "it was not Odinism or any type of cult worshipping or any type of group that would have conducted the crime," as stated in the filing.
Court docs reveal horrifying new claims in killing of 2 young girls in Delphi, Indiana


As do I, which I've stated numerous times.

MOO

The Professor was found and that was not what he said. This has been discussed ad nauseam as a point of concern per why would this information be withheld and why was the defense told they could not find the professor? Why was the D told Professor Turco said something he apparently did not say? Why was the rapper interview with Turco withheld from the D?

“The defense says there is a taped statement from Turco saying that “it was a given” that the pattern of sticks found at the crime scene was someone trying to replicate Germanic runic script.

Turco went on to bring in outside counsel from Harvard University who agreed with the deduction. Turco went on to say that, he ”could certainly imagine that this was somebody’s idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes ... there are some poetic sources that would sort of support that idea that somebody might have come across ... that scenario seems entirely plausible to me.”

Source:

Attorneys for Delphi murders suspect identify Purdue professor, say police withheld info

The defense team says the newly filed information supports its claim that Odinists were responsible for the murders of Libby German and Abigail Williams.

www.wndu.com

 

[Melted]

If you are a skeptic you are in my tribe. I notice a lot of slick wording on all sides of this case. And a lot of ineptitude all around. Dates have been getting scrambled all along - from the differing dates on the obits to the wrong date in the PCA and on and on. As for specificity, I don't think more than what was given was needed for the intent of the motion to compel and request for sanctions. I want all the specifics and details there are. I'd love to see that map.

It’s not just the obituary’s, Abby’s gravestone is marked as February 14th as her DOD and Libby’s is marked the 13th.

Has always been strange to me. JMO

 

[Schatz]

Let's try this: RL, maybe 1
Libby, 1 maybe 2
RA, maybe 1
Walker, 1
Juveniles, maybe a couple
The couple arguing below the bridge, maybe 2
Was there also a flannel shirt guy?
Externinstor guy?

That's maybe a dozen phones right there.

But at least Walker, Juveniles, FSG, Arguing Couple, Witnesses - those folks were not within the 60-100 yards of where the girls were found that the Defense alleges is indicated by the geofence.