Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

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Yeah, seeing the two pictures side-by-side makes makes me think there's less of a resemblance than I initially thought.
Right.

The sketch:

The eyes are further apart, darker looking, slight more outside slant, not at all as puffy underneath. The eyebrows are a lot more pronounced.

The nose is much longer, and bulkier, wider both at the base and at the tip. Nostrils less visible and thicker skin surrounding them.

The mouth is a lot thinner, especially the lower lip.
 
Hair is wrong, too.
His wife said he always kept his hair short since being in the National Guard.

It depends the type of hat he was wearing because if it was a Deer Hunter hat that at a quick glance could have made it seem like he had hair.

He had tried to disguise himself let’s remember. He is wearing multiple layers , face covering I believe it’s been said and hoodie and a hat.

The witnesses had seconds to notice him because they was not aware he was about to kill two innocent victims that day.


MOOOOOOOO
 
Unclear (to me) how they were denied, since there is a standard process. Seems they want additional funding?


Allen’s defense team is requesting that the court “provide parity” in the investigation and presentation in the upcoming trial to “balance the scales of justice.” This includes the exclusion of certain pieces of evidence since the defense claims they have not had the funds to properly investigate them.

The team is requesting that the defense team be approved for necessary expected expenses for the team to defend Allen within the trial. The team is asking for the state’s prosecutors to pay “out of their personal finances” for investigative services, evidence processing and expert fees.

The defense claims that they have not received any help in funding to obtaining expert assistance to investigate three pieces of evidence within the trial: the bullet found at the crime scene, the digital data collected by law enforcement and Allen’s alleged confession.

“This court should reconsider the denial of funds for defense investigative and expert expenses,” the documents said. “…Alternatively, the court should exclude at trial any testimony or evidence related to the bullet, the digital data, Allen’s purported confession and the cause, manner and timing of death.

“Finally, if denial of the defense’s requests remains, and the state is allowed to proffer testimony on the critical evidence discussed above, the only truly equitable relief would be to order the Carroll County Prosecutor to pay for any expert and investigative services, from this point forward, out of his own personal finances.”
Thanks for the info STG. Funny thing is how the Defense claims to have no money for the top 3 items in Defense of their client:
<RSBBM>

The defense claims that they have not received any help in funding to obtaining expert assistance to investigate three pieces of evidence within the trial: the bullet found at the crime scene, the digital data collected by law enforcement and Allen’s alleged confession.

Wouldn't you think these would have been the main focus of their case early on? The bullet found at the scene that matches the ejector marks on RA's gun which has never been out of his possession by his own admission.

Digital data - the Defense keeps crying there is no digital data tying RA to the murders, and last, but certainly not least:

The 5, yes 5, confessions of the Defendant Allen himself admitting he murdered Abby & Libby to his wife and mother. We don't know who else he might have made these incriminating statements to but I anticipate more now that the medical records have been made available to the State.

Yet the D (and their appellate lawyers) stood there and made assertions that they were ready absolutely ready to go to trial in Jan during the October meetings and SCOIN reviews. LOL

Of course they could have talked to other experts who weren't giving them the answers they're looking for. The ones telling you what you want to hear tend to be much pricier. CW better stay busy pushing that $$$ request.

MOO
 
True, I read the State’s response, and the COs could very well be telling the truth.

According to the ACLU, IDOCwatch.org, IndyStar and Itsgoingdown.org, there are also testimonies, lawsuits and cases centered around former and present inmates who have also alleged to have suffered abuse and neglect at Wabash and Westville prisons that have been denied or rejected, including through legal/court-mandated paperwork in response by the administration and officers at these prisons.

I am not picking a side but I thought it was important to note that.









These could be or is the same headlines for any jail or prison across America not just Indiana.

moo
 
Per this filing it looks like the court has paid for defenses legal experts ( bullet forensic experts,
Digital data experts and clinical psychologist )but defense is now requesting additional funds. This is outlined in section 14-16.
Looks like the confession expert and crime
Scene analyst was denied as unnecessary
as funding for hiring additional in-house assistants because they are “drowning” in work.
They have 7 working the case currently.

I don’t think their situation is as dire as they portray nor the denial of additional funding so outrageous. jMO

I wonder if they’ve met with the medical examiner yet.


As far as money being denied, I think we need more information.
How much has the defense already received.
—Have they already been given money for experts, and are they now requesting more because that expert didn’t give them the answers they were hoping for. More money would allow them to shop for an expert that is more aligned with their thoughts.
—Was the defense using their allotted taxpayer money to defend themselves in front of the SCOIN, and the more recent hearing.
As usual the defense paints everything as they are being put upon, but maybe not. My opinion is, depending on the true circumstances, the defense should get the money. If they have squandered their money, no.
The defense is now whining about being overwhelmed with going through evidence getting ready for trial. They requested a speedy trial. Be careful what you wish for. Too bad, so sad. The trial was scheduled for January, it should be over by now. I won’t comment on whose fault I think caused that.
The defense painted themselves into a corner. They don’t get unlimited time or money to do their jobs. A defense team could continually argue that with just a few more months, they might find something that helps their case. That doesn’t happen.
RA made a huge mistake asking to keep B and R. They have frittered away time, and possibly money, that should have been focused on him.
 
As far as money being denied, I think we need more information.
How much has the defense already received.
—Have they already been given money for experts, and are they now requesting more because that expert didn’t give them the answers they were hoping for. More money would allow them to shop for an expert that is more aligned with their thoughts.
—Was the defense using their allotted taxpayer money to defend themselves in front of the SCOIN, and the more recent hearing.
As usual the defense paints everything as they are being put upon, but maybe not. My opinion is, depending on the true circumstances, the defense should get the money. If they have squandered their money, no.
The defense is now whining about being overwhelmed with going through evidence getting ready for trial. They requested a speedy trial. Be careful what you wish for. Too bad, so sad. The trial was scheduled for January, it should be over by now. I won’t comment on whose fault I think caused that.
The defense painted themselves into a corner. They don’t get unlimited time or money to do their jobs. A defense team could continually argue that with just a few more months, they might find something that helps their case. That doesn’t happen.
RA made a huge mistake asking to keep B and R. They have frittered away time, and possibly money, that should have been focused on him.
So agreed - I said earlier RA would have stood a better chance with S&L. IMO
 
As previously discussed such argument misapprehends the proceedings.
The Contempt case is NOT State v RA.
To my mind bringing them up in court during testimony was totally appropriate to the contempt case as it showed more than the photos were leaked to RF by MW (via his relationship with AB). The discovery of MANY other things were leaked to RF. I believe and obviously so does the State, that the defense was responsible for that. The defense again tried not to let the proof of it's gross negligent come out in this contempt of court hearing. I can only assume since that didn't work they decided to really make it worth while and leak protected investigative information to the public through an appendix to a filing. There's no misunderstanding of all this. It's really quite clear. The lack of ethics by his attorneys has everything to do with RA and his case. AJMO
 
<modsnip>they really are that pathetic at their job that they are using “lack of funds” for their incompetence. Should they not of checked they could defend RA to the best of their abilities before taking him on as a client?!

How convenient so they should exclude evidence if they can’t afford to investigate it.

It’s absolutely farcical that these are legitimate lawyers.
To be fair, from the motion it sounds like Rozzi is still unexpectedly owed by the State $51K for services rendered. In addition, the State has denied their requests for funding for expert analysis/testimony and paralegal services, a possibility of which Allen’s team was already aware.

However, according to their arguments in the motion, the lack of compensation and/or funding could hinder the defense team providing efficient counsel to their client and RA “from getting a fair and equatable treatment in court” when compared to the resources and expertise the prosecution are to afford and thus access and utilize.
 
These could be or is the same headlines for any jail or prison across America not just Indiana.

moo
That is also true and prison reform is much needed in this country but I guess I picked these articles because they were located at the same prisons mentioned in the defense’s motion, Westville and Wabash and because some of the inmates mentioned experiences or statements that were similar to those allegedly experienced by RA, according to AB and BR. For example, one interviewee who was also in the segregated maximum security unit in Wabash mentions spending 22-23 hours a day isolated in his cell, feeling like recreational time was too often avoided because it was raining and cold outside and showering every few days or weekly because it felt like too much of a hassle to unlock his cuffs (though this seemed to be more of his own personal choice). Another inmate who was also once imprisoned in that section as a punishment said that while there guards would threaten his family, deprive him of his mail and say racial and discriminatory slurs while they monitored him. Unfortunately, a well-known advocate and inmate was beaten severely in one these cells. Despite the guards and their supervisor trying to cover for each other with their reports of the incident and believing the cameras couldn’t have caught anything but the inmate’s back during the incident, the judge was able to have the tape enhanced and held the COs, their boss and their lawyer accountable, according to the ACLU.

The HWR, IDOC and ACLU also reported that inmates in these two prisons slept on mats and mattresses on the floor, like BR has stated in a motion, or the metal slabs left behind on the wall due to overcrowding in these two facilities, much like other prisons and jails across Indiana. Suicide was also notably high within the prison systems of Indiana compared to the rest of the country.





 
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Let's see then...


Primaries:

Eyes... Nope.

Nose...Nope.

Mouth...Nope.


Secondaries:

Beard....yep.

Wearing a hat....yep.


RA may be the one who did this, but comparing the sketch to his image is not the way to go.

Sketches are sketchy. At best.
This sketch was primarily based on one witness who came forward months later. Source
After the release of the new sketch in 2019, the ISP announced that the sketches are of two different perople, and the person in the first sketch is not a person of interest in the investigation. Source

Eta: Sources
 
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It depends the type of hat he was wearing because if it was a Deer Hunter hat that at a quick glance could have made it seem like he had hair.

He had tried to disguise himself let’s remember. He is wearing multiple layers , face covering I believe it’s been said and hoodie and a hat.

The witnesses had seconds to notice him because they was not aware he was about to kill two innocent victims that day.


MOOOOOOOO
I've thought the same especially since his arrest and pictures coming out of him wearing a brown skullcap type hat. The pictures in this collage show the similarity of RA's hat and BG's possible "hair" very well I think. There's another recently posted pic on thread of RA with this hat, that I can't seem to find going back. It gave a closer and brighter image of this hat. It could be mistaken as hair from far away. MO

krxcio0dj85a1-485x1024.jpg
 
To be fair, from the motion it sounds like Rozzi is still unexpectedly owed by the State $51K for services rendered. In addition, the State has denied their requests for funding for expert analysis/testimony and paralegal services, a possibility of which Allen’s team was already aware.

However, according to their arguments in the motion, the lack of compensation and/or funding could hinder the defense team providing efficient counsel to their client and RA “from getting a fair and equatable treatment in court” when compared to the resources and expertise the prosecution are to afford and thus access and utilize.
If my son or husband was on trial ,[God Forbid], I assume we would have to pay for the defense attorneys. If we went with a Public Defender, we would have to accept what we were given. The State will pay for the basic expenses of a defense, but anything over that involves the need for the defendant to come up with it.

Why doesn't RA or his family put up the funds for another expert?

I have never seen a defense team suggest that the prosecution not be allowed to set forth key evidence in the trial just because the defense did not get their funding straight.
 
That is also true and prison reform is much needed in this country but I guess I picked these articles because they were located at the same prisons mentioned in the defense’s motion, Westville and Wabash and because some of the inmates mentioned experiences or statements that were similar to those allegedly experienced by RA, according to AB and BR. For example, one interviewee who was also in the segregated maximum security unit in Wabash mentions spending 22-23 hours a day isolated in his cell, feeling like recreational time was too often avoided because it was raining and cold outside and showering every few days or weekly because it felt like too much of a hassle to unlock his cuffs (though this seemed to be more of his own personal choice). Another inmate who was also once imprisoned in that section as a punishment said that while there guards would threaten his family, deprive him of his mail and say racial and discriminatory slurs while they monitored him. Unfortunately, a well-known advocate and inmate was beaten severely in one these cells. Despite the guards and their supervisor trying to cover for each other with their reports of the incident and believing the cameras couldn’t have caught anything but the inmate’s back during the incident, the judge was able to have the tape enhanced and held the COs, their boss and their lawyer accountable, according to the ACLU.

The HWR, IDOC and ACLU also reported that inmates in these two prisons slept on mats and mattresses on the floor, like BR has stated in a motion, or the metal slabs left behind on the wall due to overcrowding in these two facilities, much like other prisons and jails across Indiana. Suicide was also notably high within the prison systems of Indiana compared to the rest of the country.





So does that mean that RA was not singled out by Odinists and framed for this crime? Sounds like he was treated the same as the other prisoners in those locations.
 
So does that mean that RA was not singled out by Odinists and framed for this crime? Sounds like he was treated the same as the other prisoners in those locations.
That is what @Jade has pointed out to me and I could imagine the prosecution using as a good rebuttal if this argument was brought up by the defense
 
More ex parte comms, copied to all parties.
This one appears to be a plea for cameras in the courtroom.

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1711475925838.png
 
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