Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[Andieinsyd]

For those who believe that RA is responsible for this vicious murder and no one else, how would you explain away EF’s admission to his sister’s about what he had been involved in and what he personally did, spit on Abby and put sticks in her hair (horns, because she was a “troublemaker”). Remember, this is not his sisters making this up for something to do or attract attention. They were obviously VERY concerned about the people he was hanging out with and the possibility that he was involved in A & L’s murder. And what they didn’t know at that time, was that that is how Abby was found, with sticks in her hair/head.

Just speaking for myself, if my 9 year old grandson, came to me and said he was present at a train bridge (and believe it or not, there’s one not to far from their house and trails too!) where girls were murdered and he spit on one of them and stuck sticks in her hair, I’d be contacting LE too, just like EF’s sisters did. And then, I would expect LE to investigate EVERYONE he was playing with that day. Of course, EF is not a nine year old but possesses the cognitive capacity of a child. He has adult friends, with phones, that deal in meth and have no problem kidnapping people. What else are they involved in?

Help me understand HOW EF can be explained away.

I believe that Richard Allen is Bridge Guy. And I believe that Bridge Guy is the person who said Down the hill...and forced Abby and Libby down the hill to their deaths. From what I can see we have solid evidence that Richard Allen was this guy, not anyone else. He was there, at around the time, was on the bridge, was wearing what BG was wearing and wasn't seen after the time of the murders. I think the admissions and the bullet will add to this evidence. I don't know what happened down the hill, but my thoughts are that RA committed the murders himself.
To me, we just haven't seen enough evidence to back up the EF/Odinist angle. We have TC suggesting that it wasn't followed up well enough, but does he actually know this? He wasn't part of the Delphi team, so how would he know? As far as I can see the people were cleared and there is no evidence placing them at the scene. From what I have heard of the crime scene, the sticks are likely to be some kind of signature, but whether they are religious has not and cannot be determined (apart from by the murder(s) himself/themselves.
So to EF's statements, while they could be something, to me they are not strong enough unless there is actually some evidence that he was there. If his alibi is found to be not reliable, and something ties EF to the area on the day I'll be much more interested.

 

[FromGermany1]

"Why Abby and Libby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County?"

These questions were asked in 2017 by DC as far as I remember. WHY did he ask that way? It sounded, as if he from the start assumed something special behind the double murder. When a person is murdered, one would ask "Why this person?" and would search for motive, of course. Would the town provide a clue? Would the county provide a clue? I never heard of the same questions re town and county at a PC during another case here on WS.
If RA murdered 2 young girls for his own reasons, there isn't much sense behind the questions "Why this town?" and "Why that county?" Because the alleged killer was living in that area - would be an easy answer.
I believe, DC said it with full intention, because Delphi/Carroll County/Indiana struggled with special incidents, not necessarily known to the public. What was it or what is it?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

"Why Abby and Libby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County?"

These questions were asked in 2017 by DC as far as I remember. WHY did he ask that way? It sounded, as if he from the start assumed something special behind the double murder. When a person is murdered, one would ask "Why this person?" and would search for motive, of course. Would the town provide a clue? Would the county provide a clue? I never heard of the same questions re town and county at a PC during another case here on WS.
If RA murdered 2 young girls for his own reasons, there isn't much sense behind the questions "Why this town?" and "Why that county?" Because the alleged killer was living in that area - would be an easy answer.
I believe, DC said it with full intention, because Delphi/Carroll County/Indiana struggled with special incidents, not necessarily known to the public. What was it or what is it?

It was DC being dramatic and coy. He was Superintendent of the Indiana State Police, headquartered in Indianapolis and he would not have been directly involved in the investigation, as a detective. He would not have been involved in the police or sheriff's depts in Delphi or Carroll County. The entire state of 92 counties, has roads and properties that were his own jurisdiction.
So no, he was not alluding to anything mysterious.
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

For those who believe that RA is responsible for this vicious murder and no one else, how would you explain away EF’s admission to his sister’s about what he had been involved in and what he personally did, spit on Abby and put sticks in her hair (horns, because she was a “troublemaker”). Remember, this is not his sisters making this up for something to do or attract attention. They were obviously VERY concerned about the people he was hanging out with and the possibility that he was involved in A & L’s murder. And what they didn’t know at that time, was that that is how Abby was found, with sticks in her hair/head.

Just speaking for myself, if my 9 year old grandson, came to me and said he was present at a train bridge (and believe it or not, there’s one not to far from their house and trails too!) where girls were murdered and he spit on one of them and stuck sticks in her hair, I’d be contacting LE too, just like EF’s sisters did. And then, I would expect LE to investigate EVERYONE he was playing with that day. Of course, EF is not a nine year old but possesses the cognitive capacity of a child. He has adult friends, with phones, that deal in meth and have no problem kidnapping people. What else are they involved in?

Help me understand HOW EF can be explained away.

EF or someone close to him heard some of the CS details early on. There were many searchers and CSI out there and some info. does get out despite LE best efforts. Maybe he even heard something from BH after his questioning by LE.

EF has the mental capacity of a 7 year old from what has been reported. I could see him very easily inserting himself into the investigation for attention, and I am not saying that in a bad or judgmental way. His sister went to LE weeks after the murders, and then again weeks after that. Yes, I know she supposedly took a polygraph, but that would be easy to pass if she was telling the truth of what EF had said to her.

If EF had indeed spit on one of the bodies, that evidence would have been collected and processed. If it were true, EF would be sitting in jail right now, not having been looked at and cleared many years ago.

That is the "how" of EF can logically be explained away. Of course a person could come up with a hundred ways how EF was there, what he saw, and why his DNA wasn't found. But there must be some type of logic and reasoning behind coming to any of these conclusions or we wouldn't be able to eliminate ANYONE.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

That is a huuuuuuggggggeee stretch to make that relevant to Delphi.
It showed that the men mentioned were willing to kidnap a person and hold them at gunpoint because of a drug deal gone wrong.

Since MSM chose not to report on Click's testimony, we have no idea in what context that issue was brought up OR if it even was. Someone on the net posted the PCA and it was brought here for discussion.

How can we know for sure if it's relevant or not until we know what Click said?

 

[girlhasnoname]

"Why Abby and Libby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County?"

These questions were asked in 2017 by DC as far as I remember. WHY did he ask that way? It sounded, as if he from the start assumed something special behind the double murder. When a person is murdered, one would ask "Why this person?" and would search for motive, of course. Would the town provide a clue? Would the county provide a clue? I never heard of the same questions re town and county at a PC during another case here on WS.
If RA murdered 2 young girls for his own reasons, there isn't much sense behind the questions "Why this town?" and "Why that county?" Because the alleged killer was living in that area - would be an easy answer.
I believe, DC said it with full intention, because Delphi/Carroll County/Indiana struggled with special incidents, not necessarily known to the public. What was it or what is it?

I believe it was a statement made in generality. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

That is a huuuuuuggggggeee stretch to make that relevant to Delphi.
It showed that the men mentioned were willing to kidnap a person and hold them at gunpoint because of a drug deal gone wrong.

Agree, I'd bet there are hundreds of drug deals gone wrong in IN by the sound of things, and we're not dealing with the most sophisticated of individuals here.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

From the 3/18 hearing
0.53 mm
Holder's wife testified to seeing pictures of the girls with stick formations around them
and she says he met Abby Williams multiple times.

WLFITV

 

[susiQ]

I believe that Richard Allen is Bridge Guy. And I believe that Bridge Guy is the person who said Down the hill...and forced Abby and Libby down the hill to their deaths. From what I can see we have solid evidence that Richard Allen was this guy, not anyone else. He was there, at around the time, was on the bridge, was wearing what BG was wearing and wasn't seen after the time of the murders. I think the admissions and the bullet will add to this evidence. I don't know what happened down the hill, but my thoughts are that RA committed the murders himself.
To me, we just haven't seen enough evidence to back up the EF/Odinist angle. We have TC suggesting that it wasn't followed up well enough, but does he actually know this? He wasn't part of the Delphi team, so how would he know? As far as I can see the people were cleared and there is no evidence placing them at the scene. From what I have heard of the crime scene, the sticks are likely to be some kind of signature, but whether they are religious has not and cannot be determined (apart from by the murder(s) himself/themselves.
So to EF's statements, while they could be something, to me they are not strong enough unless there is actually some evidence that he was there. If his alibi is found to be not reliable, and something ties EF to the area on the day I'll be much more interested.

Thanks for taking the time to respond . I see things so differently and sometimes struggle with why that is. Even if I remove the Odinist angle, I can’t seem to get past what EF told his sisters.

 

[susiQ]

EF or someone close to him heard some of the CS details early on. There were many searchers and CSI out there and some info. does get out despite LE best efforts. Maybe he even heard something from BH after his questioning by LE.

EF has the mental capacity of a 7 year old from what has been reported. I could see him very easily inserting himself into the investigation for attention, and I am not saying that in a bad or judgmental way. His sister went to LE weeks after the murders, and then again weeks after that. Yes, I know she supposedly took a polygraph, but that would be easy to pass if she was telling the truth of what EF had said to her.

If EF had indeed spit on one of the bodies, that evidence would have been collected and processed. If it were true, EF would be sitting in jail right now, not having been looked at and cleared many years ago.

That is the "how" of EF can logically be explained away. Of course a person could come up with a hundred ways how EF was there, what he saw, and why his DNA wasn't found. But there must be some type of logic and reasoning behind coming to any of these conclusions or we wouldn't be able to eliminate ANYONE.

JMO

Thanks for sharing! Do we know if they processed a DNA sample from EF back in 2017? TIA

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thanks for sharing! Do we know if they processed a DNA sample from EF back in 2017? TIA

We have no way of knowing exactly whose DNA they processed. That would be considered confidential information imo, although I believe B McD and others have said lots of men in the Delphi area gave DNA samples, I wonder if RA did?

jmo

ebm: added question

 

[StarryStarryNight]

For those who believe that RA is responsible for this vicious murder and no one else, how would you explain away EF’s admission to his sister’s about what he had been involved in and what he personally did, spit on Abby and put sticks in her hair (horns, because she was a “troublemaker”). Remember, this is not his sisters making this up for something to do or attract attention. They were obviously VERY concerned about the people he was hanging out with and the possibility that he was involved in A & L’s murder. And what they didn’t know at that time, was that that is how Abby was found, with sticks in her hair/head.

Just speaking for myself, if my 9 year old grandson, came to me and said he was present at a train bridge (and believe it or not, there’s one not to far from their house and trails too!) where girls were murdered and he spit on one of them and stuck sticks in her hair, I’d be contacting LE too, just like EF’s sisters did. And then, I would expect LE to investigate EVERYONE he was playing with that day. Of course, EF is not a nine year old but possesses the cognitive capacity of a child. He has adult friends, with phones, that deal in meth and have no problem kidnapping people. What else are they involved in?

Help me understand HOW EF can be explained away.

Will the people who believe that RA is totally innocent of killing Libby and Abby, and that EF and other Odinists were the culprits, please explain to me why you don’t want this case to go to trial?
It seems that some don’t want to hear the prosecution’s evidence. I, for one, am tired of hearing nothing but unsupported theories of what the defense says about all of this, and it’s only the defense we are hearing from. I don’t care what they think about it. It means nothing. I pretty much don’t give a d@mn anymore about whether the defense are Boy Scouts or scoundrels.
The outrage that would be heard if the prosecution was to write a motion with not so veiled evidence showing RA is guilty. Indiana would probably catch fire and heads would explode.
I am tired of discussion perpetuating rumor and speculation and more recently, ideas even trending toward conspiracy theories. Odinists, LE, prosecution, prison guards, judges, county officials, the victims’ families, softball umpires, preachers, blonde haired people, brown haired people, small children and dogs. Everybody is involved. Eventually every person in Indiana will be connected somehow to Delphi.
I tend to think RA is guilty, but I honestly don’t know. I would like to hear the evidence, in a court of law, from both sides, with witnesses under oath, and cross examinations, and expert witnesses, instead of vague footnotes at the bottom of motions.

 

[Salah11]

Why was nobody else spotted around the bridge moments before the girls crossed?

We can place RA there from witnesses and the fact he also said he went out on the first platform.

If you want to blame a ridiculous cult for the murders then you have to place them at the scene and there simply is nothing to suggest multiple men were hanging that bridge at 1.45pm.

Moo

 

[lightofmine99]

Aside from the fact RA was on/near the bridge and wore clothing depicted on the man in the video, I would like to know why pretty much everyone in law enforcement and local courts decided to pin the crime on some innocent CVS employee with all this evidence of "Odinists" apparently laying around. What makes RA a better perpetrator to stand before a judge than what your Average Joe would probably describe as weird culty people? Think of those headlines.**

** Not saying they are, but many people would think that.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

From the 3/18 hearing
0.53 mm
Holder's wife testified to seeing pictures of the girls with stick formations around them
and she says he met Abby Williams multiple times.

WLFITV

So AH saw pictures of Abby and Libby’s crime scene photos? Or is she referring to the photos that BH posted on his Facebook?
This makes no sense. If this was known back in September wouldn’t that have been included in the Franks memo?

 

[WildHuncher]

Aside from the fact RA was on/near the bridge and wore clothing depicted on the man in the video, I would like to know why pretty much everyone in law enforcement and local courts decided to pin the crime on some innocent CVS employee with all this evidence of "Odinists" apparently laying around. What makes RA a better perpetrator to stand before a judge than what your Average Joe would probably describe as weird culty people? Think of those headlines.**

** Not saying they are, but many people would think that.

There was enough to write a muster-passing probable cause affidavit to get RA arrested.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[sunshineray]

"Why Abby and Libby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County?"

These questions were asked in 2017 by DC as far as I remember. WHY did he ask that way? It sounded, as if he from the start assumed something special behind the double murder. When a person is murdered, one would ask "Why this person?" and would search for motive, of course. Would the town provide a clue? Would the county provide a clue? I never heard of the same questions re town and county at a PC during another case here on WS.
If RA murdered 2 young girls for his own reasons, there isn't much sense behind the questions "Why this town?" and "Why that county?" Because the alleged killer was living in that area - would be an easy answer.
I believe, DC said it with full intention, because Delphi/Carroll County/Indiana struggled with special incidents, not necessarily known to the public. What was it or what is it?

MOO...the girls were catfished and lured to a meet up. The reasons for DC's question may lie in the network of C S A M degenerates revealed by LE. I still think it's just too coincidental that KAK's anthony_shots account was in contact with Libby on the day she was murdered. Whether that catfishing account was used by more than one person, all we have is LE stating in KAK's interrogation that there were two distinct writing styles texting the shots and emily accounts. KAK's dropbox may be another can of worms entirely...with many other players. We just don't know. I still think KAK being moved out of Wabash almost immediately after RA was brought there...another skeptical coincidence, AJMO

 

[layer]

So AH saw pictures of Abby and Libby’s crime scene photos? Or is she referring to the photos that BH posted on his Facebook?
This makes no sense. If this was known back in September wouldn’t that have been included in the Franks memo?

Brad Holder and Pat Wesfall of Delphi were noted as connected to the murders in Delphi in 2017. Holders wife testified he met with Abby Williams multiple times, and there were pictures on his phone of the girls with sticks arranged in Norsk formations. In 2017, Delphi police used a DVR set to record interviews.
Former Police Chief Mullins testified he noticed the DVR was set to continuously record months after recording Holders interview. The interview was reportedly lost. He also says the FBI never recorded Westfall’s interview.
Source

 

[sunshineray]

From the 3/18 hearing
0.53 mm
Holder's wife testified to seeing pictures of the girls with stick formations around them
and she says he met Abby Williams multiple times.

WLFITV

Incomplete reporting here if the reporter doesn't say HOW Holder's wife saw crime scene pictures of the girls. Just off the top of my head, it sounds like the people who recieved the photos from MW, shared them with many more people (probably on Facebook) than we currently know. Since Holder's wife had a connection to Abby, she may have gotten access to them easier than someone else. Just some thoughts.

 

[layer]

Incomplete reporting here if the reporter doesn't say HOW Holder's wife saw crime scene pictures of the girls.

Some of your answers are given in the reporting, some not, many others raised for me.

According to Holder's wife's testimony Holder and Westfall had a falling out over a ritual gone wrong in the woods. Holder's wife testified to seeing pictures of the girls with stick formations around them and she says he met Abby Williams multiple times.