Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[Salah11]

It’s crazy to look at the Length of that bridge and think how alone they were out there when the gun was pulled. It took less than a minute then to get them off the trail and out of eyesight.

This is why I believe one man did this as once out of view he had all the time in the world and with the gun he had all the control.

Moo

 

[legalmomma]

More logistics released about upcoming Delphi murders trial The jury will be chosen from among 600 people in what is widely considered to be one of the most high-profile murder trials in Indiana history.
More logistics released about upcoming Delphi murders trial
…
After jury selection, the actual trial phase of the proceedings will take place at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Gull confirmed Allen’s trial will take place six days a week — Monday through Saturday — if there are no religious objections from any of the jurors.
…
She said the jury will hear testimony from roughly 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. each day of the trial. The Carroll County Courthouse closes at noon on Wednesdays, but the judge plans to keep the trial going on Wednesday afternoons through the end of the day.
The judge has scheduled three weeks for the entire trial and expects it to be completed by May 31. So far, she has not approved any media requests for cameras in the courtroom.

 

[FromGermany1]

More logistics released about upcoming Delphi murders trial The jury will be chosen from among 600 people in what is widely considered to be one of the most high-profile murder trials in Indiana history.
More logistics released about upcoming Delphi murders trial
…
After jury selection, the actual trial phase of the proceedings will take place at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Gull confirmed Allen’s trial will take place six days a week — Monday through Saturday — if there are no religious objections from any of the jurors.
…
She said the jury will hear testimony from roughly 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. each day of the trial. The Carroll County Courthouse closes at noon on Wednesdays, but the judge plans to keep the trial going on Wednesday afternoons through the end of the day.
The judge has scheduled three weeks for the entire trial and expects it to be completed by May 31. So far, she has not approved any media requests for cameras in the courtroom.

May will be tiring .... for us too.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yea it’s just weird they would ever be stored like that & not either on a cloud or have physical copies on sight (which would be an outdated way but at least they wouldn’t be overwritten). It wasn’t body cam footage, it was interviews for a double homicide of 2 children.

JMO

We're talking about early 2017 in a small town (approx 2,000 people) local police dept. They were using antiquated equipment and I'm sure the "cloud" was never thought of at that time. I linked previous commission notes where it was a line item that stated they were having trouble with the a/v equipment before the murders even happened. Their budget was minuscule.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

So do you think it was a prearranged meeting between RA and the girls or at least one of them?

I absolutely think it was prearranged, RA was on a mission to get to the MHB that day at that time, armed with a gun and knife not out taking a leisurely stroll, watching fish and checking his stock trader.

IMO, he either catfished them on his own or was working with someone else who knew the girls were going to be there.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

So I just picked through some posts on here I missed, and I never look back at the Franks, but I saw some people mentioning how it memorializes the Odinist threats and coercion in the prison, and the gaps on that portion. So people are already treading through this, but question. How'd RA even know these people were Odinists? And even if they were, why so terrified? Right, I see about the patches, but I'd have had no idea before this case and Franks what an Odinist even was, I'd be thinking back to my 8th grade comic book collection with Thor and Odin. And if I checked online, I'd find sites about Asatru, not at all threatening. How'd he know to be so terrified?

I see this in the very dramatic Franks: "These Westville Corrections officers boldly wore patches on their Department of Corrections (DOC) uniforms that proclaimed 'In Odin We Trust' along with another patch displaying symbols of Odism" I see this: "Beginning at least on April 3, 2023, Sgt. Jones and Sgt. Robinson wore their Odin patches when the Defense team visited Richard Allen." This: "At one such meeting with his attorneys, Richard Allen mumbled in a somewhat incoherent fashion that Odinites were threatening him." (And you didn't get more info?) This: "It would be important to know that Richard Allen’s Defense team had never mentioned the words Odinites or Odinism or informed Richard Allen that evidence suggests that Odinists murdered Abby and Libby until August 25, 2023, when his Defense team, in the presence of his Wife (who was visiting with Rick in the prison), first discovered the exculpatory Odin related evidence to Rick. Rick’s Defense team felt that having him remain unaware would hopefully keep Rick a bit safer." (Even thought he's mumbled to you in an incoherent fashion on a prior occasion that "Odinites were threatening" him? Did I get the timing confused on this?) This: "Again, more detailed information concerning the Odinite corrections officers, as well as the documentation supporting that information, will be provided in the body of this memorandum."

Umm... where? Where's the quote, where's the conversation that "filled in the dots" for RA on who these people were and why they were so dangerous? I mean, that would be a very drama-filled moment, these writers are definitely not afraid of drama. Where's that pivotal piece of information? In Part IV, seeing this: "He claimed on a couple of occasions that 'they were going to kill him.' When asked who he was referring to as 'they', Richard Allen responded by saying the guys with the Odin patches." If someone in prison threatened to kill me, I wouldn't notice an Odinist patch, I wouldn't even know what it was. I'd just know some guard threatened to kill me. And if I had gotten wind of what Odinism was, I'd be saying the "Odinists," not "the guys with the Odin patches." Hmm. That is very odd. Apologies if someone already unraveled this, there are so many posts on this thread.

My response to this would be, how did BP know about them when SHE brought it up to LE months after the girls were murdered when she told them that BH was an Odinist? It appears that the fact that there were Odinists in Delphi was not a secret perhaps? Not only that, we have no idea what was happening to RA when D were not there. These are proud Odinists by all accounts and I would expect they talk about it. It’s not surprising that RA would know they were Odinists for me. JMHO

 

[girlhasnoname]

How can I help?

Let's start with the obvious:
The Defense, as Officers of the Court (same as the Prosecution) wouldn't need to pretend to be members of the public writing into the Judge. They've got a direct line to Judge Gull and - as we have all witnessed - the Defense regularly asserts that their client is innocent ... along with all the other points brought up by the writer of the letter.

Which leaves this:
The email writer may indeed have taken their points from the Defense's various filings on the public docket.

Honestly, linguistic forensics services aren't required here. It's reasonable to think the email writer has taken points and notes from the Defense.

But I think the email writer's larger point is transparency is good for everyone and they'd like cameras in the courtroom.

I have no issue with that concept or the request, and I think everyone in this forum would agree on that particular request: Permit cameras/recording for the State v. RA trial your Honor, please.

JMHO

Let me also help if I may, although I am not a Forensic Linguist:

The Defense is known to use the most unconventional, underhanded, less than honest methods I've ever seen, from the beginning of their appointment to this case up until this very moment, including crowd funding.

So is it really a stretch to imagine their SM, Podcasters would get together and file form letters (they ARE all remarkably identical for your average John or Jane Q. Public) to the Court? We could recap some of their rabid fans they called as witnesses being barred from Court for their behavior.

No, it's not an illogical stretch to think this was done as another stunt based on previous and current behavior.

I also don't agree that there should be cameras allowed in this particular case for many, many reasons. There will be an audio version made for the public record and I'm okay with that.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IIRC
5'6-5'10"

Flyers – Abby and Libby.org

www.abbyandlibby.org

Yes, here's a recap and it's pretty darn close to RA:

<snipped & BBM>
The composite sketch depicts a white man with a prominent nose and a goatee who’s wearing a cap and what appears to be a hooded sweater. Police said the suspect has reddish-brown hair, stands between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10 and weighs between 180 and 220 pounds.

Delphi Murders Timeline: Disappearance, Years-Long Manhunt and the Possible Break

 

[layer]

The Defense is known to use the most unconventional, underhanded, less than honest methods I've ever seen, from the beginning of their appointment to this case up until this very moment, including crowd funding.

Granted crowdsourcing is unconventional, but how is it underhanded or less than honest?

 

[Salah11]

Let me also help if I may, although I am not a Forensic Linguist:

The Defense is known to use the most unconventional, underhanded, less than honest methods I've ever seen, from the beginning of their appointment to this case up until this very moment, including crowd funding.

So is it really a stretch to imagine their SM, Podcasters would get together and file form letters (they ARE all remarkably identical for your average John or Jane Q. Public) to the Court? We could recap some of their rabid fans they called as witnesses being barred from Court for their behavior.

No, it's not an illogical stretch to think this was done as another stunt based on previous and current behavior.

I also don't agree that there should be cameras allowed in this particular case for many, many reasons. There will be an audio version made for the public record and I'm okay with that.

MOO

100% agree and I will admit if there was cameras I would watch it so I guess I’m a hypocrite.

To much damage has been done and more damage would be inflicted on the families if this was televised. Considering the subject matter audio I think is in the best interest for the people involved.

Moo

 

[layer]

It’s not surprising that RA would know they were Odinists for me. JMHO

I see a fallacy in the argument:
RA was trying to shift the blame to odinists by leaving norse symbols at the crime scene.
RA would never recognize odin symbology on guards.

 

[layer]

100% agree and I will admit if there was cameras I would watch it so I guess I’m a hypocrite.

I don't see anything hypocritical about opposing cameras in the courtroom but watching them if they are there.
JMHO

 

[FromGermany1]

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

I was re-reading the AA and I wanted to share because seeing the times like this really helps me see flow of things. I thought maybe it would help others too maybe a refresher on what we do know as facts based on video time stamps and photos/videos taken at exact times. Witness testimony is not always 100%, but when we take their information with exact times we know things happened like cars on video and timestamps on photos, it does paint a more accurate picture.

1:26 - girl witness (one of the group of 3 girls walking) takes photo of a bench on the east side of freedom bridge- then states her and her friends are walking toward Freedom Bridge after that photo is taken and they pass BG at some point after that. They are heading toward Freedom bridge and BG is heading toward Monan High Bridge.

1:27 a car believed to be RA's seen on camera

130 - 330 RA says he was at the trails

1:46 woman driving to trail to walk sees girls on freedom bridge as she passes under it and then she then parks

1:46-2:14 lone woman witness walks the trail- she walks to Monan High bridge and sees BG on the bridge on platform 1, she turns around and walks back the way she came and leaves.

***So if this woman walked out and back then her 30 or so minutes total walk would be safe to assume she was at the Monan High Bridge about 2pm and sees BG.

1:49 Abby and Libby dropped off.

***Sometime after 2 or so the woman walking back toward her car says she passes 2 girls she believes were Abby and Libby as they headed toward the High Bridge.

2:07 Photo of Abby on bridge

2:13 Abby and Libby encounter man.. video on bridge

Per RAs interview he walked out on to platform 1 and then walked back and sat on a bench. So if the woman walking saw him about 2pm on the platform and then she passes Abby and Libby as she walks back toward her car and RA is then leaving the bridge to sit on a bench.

Edited to add: RA said he didn't see Abby and Libby.. so HOW? He is on the bridge about 2pm and admits that he was on the bridge and then sitting on the bench. The woman walking sees him and we know exactly when she would have seen him because he was only there about 30 minutes and went out and back.. so half way point is 2pm. Girls are dropped off and we know that is an exact time.. we know Libby takes a photo of Abby at 2:07pm. So RA would HAVE to see 2 girls either walk past while he was on the bench or when he was leaving because the timeline is too tight. He was still there when Abby and Libby walked out onto the bridge.

3:57 woman sees man walking on 300. This is believed to be BG leaving after his crimes.

Did the girls have their first encounter at the bench with him perhaps? They didn't do video or audio then. Maybe, they had a conversation, maybe ambiguous and cheeky. 20 minutes in the girls' timeline were unaccounted for, I remember, we said here on WS. Of course, RA had to say, he didn't see them, if this 20min.-meeting led to the double murder. And of course, the girls filmed him, when he followed them onto the bridge. They recognized by his clothing, that he was the man from the bench, and they noticed (being scared), he had broken the rule, not to enter the bridge, when another person was already walking the bridge.
Maybe, it all began there at the bench?
Speculation, MOO

 

[susiQ]

I see a fallacy in the argument:
RA was trying to shift the blame to odinists by leaving norse symbols at the crime scene.
RA would never recognize odin symbology on guards.

Being able to identify someone by the religion they profess, does not necessarily mean you understand all their practices. For instance, do all people practicing Catholicism understand the practices of the Mormon faith or vice versa? Unless one takes the time to do the research, likely not. The D claim there was nothing found on RA’s devices that he searched out the practices of Odinists. JMO

 

[layer]

They recognized by his clothing, that he was the man from the bench, and they noticed (being scared), he had broken the rule, not to enter the bridge, when another person was already walking the bridge.
Maybe, it all began there at the bench?

As I ponder this highly plausible scenario, I'm reminded of the terror they must have felt.

 

[FromGermany1]

Yes, here's a recap and it's pretty darn close to RA:

<snipped & BBM>
The composite sketch depicts a white man with a prominent nose and a goatee who’s wearing a cap and what appears to be a hooded sweater. Police said the suspect has reddish-brown hair, stands between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10 and weighs between 180 and 220 pounds.

Delphi Murders Timeline: Disappearance, Years-Long Manhunt and the Possible Break

In contrary to (second sketch): height and weight suddenly unknown, no goatie, reddish-brown curly hair, young 18-40, perhaps sometimes looking younger.

 

[FromGermany1]

Does the profile fit with RA?
(I believe, it doesn't fit very well.)

 

[layer]

We're talking about early 2017 in a small town (approx 2,000 people) local police dept. They were using antiquated equipment and I'm sure the "cloud" was never thought of at that time. I linked previous commission notes where it was a line item that stated they were having trouble with the a/v equipment before the murders even happened. Their budget was minuscule.

This makes sense to me

 

[Salah11]

Being able to identify someone by the religion they profess, does not necessarily mean you understand all their practices. For instance, do all people practicing Catholicism understand the practices of the Mormon faith or vice versa? Unless one takes the time to do the research, likely not. The D claim there was nothing found on RA’s devices that he searched out the practices of Odinists. JMO

Well they are hardly going to admit it if they had. They are trying to spin their pet theory here so of course RA can not have ties to this cult.

 

[WildHuncher]

The State is required to prove Defendant Allen's guilt BARD. I believe they will do that in spades when all is laid out on the table.

JMO

I fully expect this as well. It’s the jury that scares me.