Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[steeltowngirl]

As mentioned, first they described BG as 5' 11". Then it became a range, accompanied by the 2 disparate composites. At that point, BG became a fully flexible avatar. I appreciate that it became a tip tool, was never an ID photo. But ... IMO, 5' 5" is out of range it.

Perhaps I'll understand it better when they put BG on the stand. So to speak.

The witness descriptions are flimsy imo. They were frightened teens doing their best to recall. But the important thing is they all saw the same guy at the right time. We have to assume that was BG. We know BG is not tall. Now we need to understand exactly why LE is confident that RA=BG.

 

[Boxer]

I'm just curious (and I'm not saying I believe this guy is the killer) how you reconcile Elvis Fields' confessions to his sisters, telling the officer he spit on Abby, saying he put antlers on her head.... I mean besides assuming the defense attorneys have lied about it in the Franks Memo. Assume for a minute they did not lie (and risk their careers) and this is information they found in the documents they cited in the footnotes. What do you make of it?

Was spit found?

 

[TTF14]

Was spit found?

We don't know that.

 

[Boxer]

Didn't they take the height off the official poster at some point? Was it when they had their sights set on RA and knew he did not match "BG" at ALL?

The original height was his height.

 

[TTF14]

The original height was his height.

OK I don't even remember now. I thought it was like 5'10". Also, Bri Wilber, who is tall, said she came up to his shoulder.

 

[steeltowngirl]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Are you thinking the girls saw different men, not all the same guy? Or that they all saw one guy, and he may not have been BG?

I don’t question the timeline because I do not buy into the theory that LE reverse engineered evidence to fit a targeted suspect. If that makes me a poor juror, defense would catch that during voir dire and I’d be back here at the lunch table with all of you during the trial. Or maybe banished to another table with my snoopy lunchbox. All alone.

 

[Emma Peel]

The witness descriptions are flimsy imo. They were frightened teens doing their best to recall. But the important thing is they all saw the same guy at the right time. We have to assume that was BG. We know BG is not tall. Now we need to understand exactly why LE is confident that RA=BG.

Agree eyewitness descriptions are flimsy. RSBM above for focus: "We know BG is not tall" (?)
I don't think we do? At birth BG was 5' 11" - right? He got taller, then shorter ... depending.

Same old hitch for me: How do we know that BG is not tall. (Also - what does not tall mean in height terms?) I don't think we have that information? (Although I may have missed it.)

BG was RL for 2 years or so. RL is 6 feet. How did we know that BG was 6 ft tall?
A few other POIs have come and gone. Did BG grow and shrink for them too?

It seems to me, BG's height has not been factually determined.

On the bright side: Libby's phone time stamp is a big ol' hard fact.

 

[Boxer]

Here are A&L posters on the sheriffs wall.
Interestingly they dont have Carter's new one.

Through the years of the Delphi investigations

A look at the history of the ongoing Delphi killings investigations through photo

www.jconline.com

 

[Emma Peel]

OK I don't even remember now. I thought it was like 5'10". Also, Bri Wilber, who is tall, said she came up to his shoulder.

Agree, IIRC - The eyewitnesses' description of the height of the man they saw are not consistent with RA's height.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Agree eyewitness descriptions are flimsy. RSBM above for focus: "We know BG is not tall" (?)
I don't think we do? At birth BG was 5' 11" - right? He got taller, then shorter ... depending.

Same old hitch for me: How do we know that BG is not tall. (Also - what does not tall mean in height terms?) I don't think we have that information? (Although I may have missed it.)

BG was RL for 2 years or so. RL is 6 feet. How did we know that BG was 6 ft tall?
A few other POIs have come and gone. Did BG grow and shrink for them too?

It seems to me, BG's height has not been factually determined.

On the bright side: Libby's phone time stamp is a big ol' hard fact.

I’m waiting for evidence at trial. I’m underwhelmed with the known evidence. I hold out hope for bombshells of undeniable, indisputable, concrete, cold, hard facts in the courtroom.

But we’ve already covered the dangers of hope.

 

[layer]

But we’ve already covered the dangers of hope.

Remember, Andy escaped.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

 

[layer]

Didn't they take the height off the official poster at some point? Was it when they had their sights set on RA and knew he did not match "BG" at ALL?

I knew someone asked this!
A new FBI poster on the Delphi killings removed some of the suspect description. The flier includes images of Libby German and Abby Williams, along with an image of the suspect from German's phone and a sketch. What is missing is the height, weight and age of the suspect. The request to remove the information came from the Indiana State Police.
Published March 16, 2022
Source

 

[steeltowngirl]

Agree eyewitness descriptions are flimsy. RSBM above for focus: "We know BG is not tall" (?)
I don't think we do? At birth BG was 5' 11" - right? He got taller, then shorter ... depending.

Same old hitch for me: How do we know that BG is not tall. (Also - what does not tall mean in height terms?) I don't think we have that information? (Although I may have missed it.)

BG was RL for 2 years or so. RL is 6 feet. How did we know that BG was 6 ft tall?
A few other POIs have come and gone. Did BG grow and shrink for them too?

It seems to me, BG's height has not been factually determined.

On the bright side: Libby's phone time stamp is a big ol' hard fact.

Social media had some brilliant posters who used scientific technology to determine BG’s approximate height. I think Gray Hughes was among them, but I saw others with very technical explanations. The general consensus seemed to be around 5’6” IIRC. Understand that is hypothetical and not from the FBI, but frankly, I trust more of what I saw out there than the sketches or the poster info.

jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

BG versus RA. Tough to find a news source of RA walking. I did my best.

from ISP BG
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_MotionFix.mp4

versus

from Fox News: RA courthouse
youtube link for Fox 59 news.

from WISH News: RA courthouse same scene, different angle
facebook link belongs to reporter Kody Fisher WISH TV News Investigative journalist at WISH TV.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1302080796998211

 

[Emma Peel]

I knew someone asked this!
A new FBI poster on the Delphi killings removed some of the suspect description. The flier includes images of Libby German and Abby Williams, along with an image of the suspect from German's phone and a sketch. What is missing is the height, weight and age of the suspect. The request to remove the information came from the Indiana State Police.
Published March 16, 2022
Source

Thank you, layer. RBBM for emphasis.

This change was request March 2022, shortly after RA indictment.
Makes one wonder ... in March 2022 ... what was the State's Theory of the case that they contact FBI to change the flyers, yet keep the composites and BG? What is the State's Theory today?

Same source as layer's above ... another quote: Source

"The Delphi Task Force requested the FBI to remove the physical descriptors listed on the flyer. Investigators do not want to discourage or stop the public from submitting a tip because the person does not specifically meet the height, weight, and age description. Investigators would like the public to focus on the photo of the man on the bridge, the voice recording, and second sketch that was released by law enforcement."

 

[Emma Peel]

Social media had some brilliant posters who used scientific technology to determine BG’s approximate height. I think Gray Hughes was among them, but I saw others with very technical explanations. The general consensus seemed to be around 5’6” IIRC. Understand that is hypothetical and not from the FBI, but frankly, I trust more of what I saw out there than the sketches or the poster info.

jmo

Thank you steeltowngirl. No offense. I feel the opposite.
I'll take the FBI's estimate over youtubers any day.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thank you steeltowngirl. No offense. I feel the opposite.
I'll take the FBI's estimate over youtubers any day.

Not so fast, not letting you cut and run. You pointed out the discrepancies in the posted FBI data. That doesn’t sound to me like you fully accept it.

ETA: I am interested in the most accurate estimate of BG’s height. Not to cherry pick data to suit a narrative that BG= RA. And also not looking to use that data to further discredit LE and prosecution.

 

[sunshineray]

That just struck me kind of funny.
MOO
He lived in Delphi for many years and Delphi has a population of a couple thousand people and he worked at the only drugstore in town and ate at McDonalds and parked his car within sight of police station and drank beer at the local bar and sat out in front of his house after work. He did all of this on a regular basis.

No way under the sun was he attempting to hide by changing his appearance.

Maybe it was to change the man in the mirror.

 

[sunshineray]

Agree. And he looks nothing like "BG" so even if he's guilty, he wouldn't need to change his appearance. BG is everyman and "NOman"..... not obviously Richard Allen.

I disagree, I think he greatly favors BG. MHO

 

[Emma Peel]

Appreciate everyone's input ... Thanks for listening.