Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

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From my understanding, we now know that the second sketch, YBG, came from BB on Feb. 17, 2017, as the man she saw on the bridge. I sincerely want to make sure that I understand where everyone is coming from on here, because I keep seeing it suggested that the YBG sketch is a_shots or some other random person. Is the thought that the D was lying in the FM about BB's witness statement, which was attached as an exhibit for the judge? Or is the idea that BB saw a younger man but he wasn't the one on the bridge? Or is it that BB is not the one who saw YBG? I apologize for being confused, but I want to make sure I don't have my facts wrong about the BB/YBG/bridge detail.

Here's the links.
PCA
Franks memo
 
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From my understanding, we now know that the second sketch, YBG, came from BB, as the man she saw on the bridge (I assume I don't have to link the PCA and FM again?). I sincerely want to make sure that I understand where everyone is coming from on here, because I keep seeing it suggested that the YBG sketch is a_shots or some other random person. Is the thought that the D was lying in the FM about BB's witness statement, which was attached as an exhibit for the judge? Or is the idea that BB saw a younger man but he wasn't the one on the bridge? Or is it that BB is not the one who saw YBG? I apologize for being confused, but I want to make sure I don't have my facts wrong about the BB/YBG/bridge detail.

I'm with you. YBG is from BB and she said the sketch is a "10 out of 10" for accuracy.
 
From my understanding, we now know that the second sketch, YBG, came from BB, as the man she saw on the bridge (I assume I don't have to link the PCA and FM again?). I sincerely want to make sure that I understand where everyone is coming from on here, because I keep seeing it suggested that the YBG sketch is a_shots or some other random person. Is the thought that the D was lying in the FM about BB's witness statement, which was attached as an exhibit for the judge? Or is the idea that BB saw a younger man but he wasn't the one on the bridge? Or is it that BB is not the one who saw YBG? I apologize for being confused, but I want to make sure I don't have my facts wrong about the BB/YBG/bridge detail.
I think YBG came from BB since she allegedly saw "a young guy with poofy hair on the bridge" and the YBG sketch seems a young guy with poofy hair. I think she saw BG some feet away and isn't very reliable as eye witness. We will have to wait for her testimony to discover if she says the young guy with poofy hair that she saw on the bridge is the guy on the video (BG). I think she will be used for the D and P will attack her testimony.

But since some LE said the sketches are not the same person, some people think the YBG was from anthony shots and it was a tactic from LE. I think it was just conflict opinions from different officers and again, a bit messy investigation.
 
I think YBG came from BB since she allegedly saw "a young guy with poofy hair on the bridge" and the YBG sketch seems a young guy with poofy hair. I think she saw BG some feet away and isn't very reliable as eye witness. We will have to wait for her testimony to discover if she says the young guy with poofy hair that she saw on the bridge is the guy on the video (BG). I think she will be used for the D and P will attack her testimony.

But since some LE said the sketches are not the same person, some people think the YBG was from anthony shots and it was a tactic from LE. I think it was just conflict opinions from different officers and again, a bit messy investigation.
BBM. That's the part that bothers me about what LE said. They did express to the public that they were not the same person. Like you said, it could have been conflicting opinions within LE. I tend to think LE reached a point where they really weren't clear if there was one, or two men dressed similarly that day (one seen by the group of girls, the other by BB). However, what does seem clear is that YBG was the man BB saw on the bridge.
 
I’ll try this again. They are telling us to focus on BG (supposed killer/down the hill guy) yet they are telling us that BB’s sketch is the killer. To me, BB’s sketch (first sketch, second to be released in 2019) looks nothing like BG. Maybe my brain isn’t working right today? I thought it was clear the first time, but…..I guess not :).

Eta: I don’t think RA resembles the second sketch released, AT ALL.

If that's Due Process, I agree. :p
An estimate suggests ~100 acronyms used in this thread
 
From page 10 of the FM: BBM
_________________________

During her March 7, 2017, interview, Betsy Blair was talking with two members of Unified Command: Kevin Hammond and Tony Liggett.

At this interview, Betsy Blair told Liggett, face-to-face, that the man she (Betsy Blair) observed on the high bridge fit the following description:

The man was slender and youthful looking.

He was more “boyish” looking.

The man was in his 20s to early 30s.

His hair seemed “poofy” just as the sketch portrayed.

He had no facial hair, that she can remember.

Finally, on April 22, 2019, Unified Command released Betsy Blair’s sketch #2 to the general public. In fact, upon its release, Superintendent Doug Carter commented that the man in
Blair’s sketch #2 was “responsible for the murders.”

Also, at the time of the release of sketch#2, Doug Carter also stated that sketch #1 had now become “secondary” to the investigation.

Find attached a flash drive containing Betsy Blair’s March 7, 2019, interview with Tony Liggett, marked as Exhibit 107. Betsy Blair states that sketch #1 with the “golf hat” is “wrong” at the 11:37:55 mark. Liggett’s affidavit, marked as Exhibit 108, and also Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark. Liggett’s Affidavit for Search Warrant. Doug Carter also stated that sketch #1 had now become “secondary” to the investigation.
 

New Delphi murders sketch released​

The new sketch shared Monday depicts a man who appears much younger than the original sketch. Carter said the old sketch is now being considered secondary.

Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, a sketch artist with Indiana State Police who drew the new sketch, told IndyStar a sketch is based on how a particular witness describes the suspect. If there are several witnesses, Bryant would draw a sketch for each description. Bryant did not draw the sketch that police released in July 2017.

"The witness is the main focus. So there’s no input from law enforcement at all in the generating of a sketch, other than my presence as the artist."

Bryant uses a "facial identification reference sheet" that has a list of different categories, from head shapes to different eyebrows and noses. The person will describe the suspect based on those categories. "(It's) easier to do that than to describe (the suspect) using just words," Bryant said.

The sketches are not exact, Bryant said. The renderings are a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

The sketch released on Monday was drawn by Bryant on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant.

Per your second bold, I think the Frank's Memo purposefully conflates descriptions.

The witnesses don't get a chance to clear up any confusion until trial. One switch to the other sketch and BB is referring to old BG for a 10 of 10 match. An attorney in another trial argued before a judge that there was DNA from known SA offenders in the victim's var even though she knew full well they weren't direct matches and the car wasn't even the crime scene. Judge ate it up with a side of fries.

What if the YBG sketch was generated from recall by a friend of Libby's, recalled the individual whom Libby had been messaging? Later discovered/cinfirmed when LE got into Libby's phone which is when LE changed the direction of their investigation. Not sure this theory is supported by what we know but I think we can't trust what's been suggested about so saw what and when.

But I'll throw this out there and contradict my own self -- if BB is the source of the YBG sketch, perhaps his hood, cap, shadowing gave an impression of poofy hair and his agility on the platform gave him the appearance of youth. Didn't seem like a stodgy middle-aged man but a spry, younger one.

So ready for all of this to be cleared up!

JMO
 
BBM. That's the part that bothers me about what LE said. They did express to the public that they were not the same person. Like you said, it could have been conflicting opinions within LE. I tend to think LE reached a point where they really weren't clear if there was one, or two men dressed similarly that day (one seen by the group of girls, the other by BB). However, what does seem clear is that YBG was the man BB saw on the bridge.
  • They are not the same person
  • The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
  • The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
  • The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
  • This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch
Grown a... beard
There is no facial hair on YBG
Gah

Source
 
Aw. Yeah, he has a lot of haters. I’m not among them. Despite being all over the place, I appreciate his passion for this case.
not a DC hater. no reason to be a DC hater. This is the nature of bureaucracy and chain of command. Of course DC sincerely cares.

I think it's helpful - going into trial (witnesses) to understand who was the day-to-day Investigative leadership and Command here. (I've taken time to go back and listen to all their interviews. Have posted them to share.) The investigation's integrity will be on trial.

I've wondered if DC knew out about the 70 days of missing interviews in 2017 or did he just learn of this in 2024.
I wonder the same as to the FBI.

IMO, the loss of evidence the first 70 days is not water under the bridge; it's the beginning of the Defense's attack on the investigation.

JMHO
 
What if the YBG sketch was generated from recall by a friend of Libby's, recalled the individual whom Libby had been messaging? Later discovered/cinfirmed when LE got into Libby's phone which is when LE changed the direction of their investigation.
But that's not what they said.
So ready for all of this to be cleared up!
AMEN!
 
IMO, the loss of evidence the first 70 days is not water under the bridge; it's the beginning of the Defense's attack on the investigation.

JMHO
RSBM. I think so too, but it seems during this pre-trial phase, it's fallen on deaf ears, IMO. JG isn't worried about it, and neither is a lot of the public. Seventy days of lost interviews, the partial loss of the Oct. 26 interview, possible omissions in the PCA, possibly not following up on valid lines of investigations, NMcL gaining access to, reading, quoting, and simply withdrawing his motions on the D's ex parte motions with no repercussions, are only some of the questionable conduct by the State, and it's all but ignored. If the D dare argues it, it's just because they have nothing else. They can't do anything but lie, conflate, or throw crap at the walls since they are a joke. Trial might come and we find out RA is unequivocally BG, the State's mistakes were insignificant, and the Ds are a total P O S, but I'm certainly not ready to confine my opinions to that at this point, before we know really anything. JMO.
 
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appreciate it. that helps! still interesting. Do we get to send question suggestions into the court?

Clerk: "Your Honor, Miss Emma Peel the Websleuth is ready to approach the Witness with one permitted very curious earworm question."
Do you swear on the WS community rules to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? love it!
 
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