Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[girlhasnoname]

A couple more filings

05/02/2024	Transport Order Entered Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 05/01/2024
05/02/2024	Order Issued Amended order reflecting May 7, 2024 hearing date Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn Noticed: Auger, Jennifer Jones Order Signed: 05/01/2024

Judge Gull approved the hearing requested by the D and ordered a transport order for RA to be present. Seems very unbiased of her. Things are looking up.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

@AugustWest Duly noted. They’ll never see it.

But I do.

+1

 

[girlhasnoname]

It has to be relevant and reliable to even be admitted.

Kind of similar to all of those ritualistic sacrificing or SODDI accusations by the D. Has to be relevant and reliable or no go. That will help to keep the trial on schedule.

IMO

 

[AugustWest]

Kind of similar to all of those ritualistic sacrificing or SODDI accusations by the D. Has to be relevant and reliable or no go. That will help to keep the trial on schedule.

IMO

Correct, every piece of evidence has to be both relevant and reliable. Testimony included. The bar is easier to pass with testimony, however, as reliability can be achieved simply by swearing someone in. Experts require Daubert.

 

[layer]

@AugustWest Duly noted. They’ll never see it.
But I do.

I like the bricks and walls analagy!
Ironic since I was just pondering if raising my wall would do anything to prevent another brick from coming through my window like it did the other day.
In this case we just have to wait and see if Nick has the bricks to fill in enough holes in the wall.

 

[Melted]

The 'trapped' part was that a grown man had a gun to their heads. If someone had a gun at the back of your best friend's head would you hop the fence and run?

No I wouldn’t, I’ve mentioned time and time again that I am a 6’5 250 lb male and if lil Ricky had pulled that 40 caliber on me I would of done whatever he told me to.

I was speaking about someone questioning whether they knew he was coming for them when he was halfway across the bridge and if they would of wanted to run they would of had nowhere to go

 

[Emma Peel]

IMO, it's interesting that Barb McD continues to connect Judge Diener's 7-day-notice to the Delphi case.

Loretta Rush, referenced in the resignation Diener letter, is the Chief Justice of the Indiana Supreme Court.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786101796726874209

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786102116647383536

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785673246098051305

(The Indiana Supreme Court reviews cases referred to them by the Indiana Office of Judicial and Attorney Regulation and determines sanctions if any. )
Judicial disciplinary process

jmho

 

[Emma Peel]

+1

But I don't.

Back to 0.

 

[Emma Peel]

All this talk about identifying objects through clothing would be a very hard sell to even be found relevant and admissible. You would have to find an expert who would be able to identify not only make and model of gun through clothing, but to a particular gun. You would have to find an "I can identify a tripod through clothes" expert. These types of identification would have to pass Daubert standards:

1. Whether the technique or theory in question can be, and has been tested;
2. Whether it has been subjected to publication and peer review;
3. Its known or potential error rate;
4. The existence and maintenance of standards controlling its operation; and
5. Whether it has attracted widespread acceptance within a relevant scientific community.

See: Daubert Standard

Hi @AugustWest

That's a very helpful explanation. IMO very important concept to understand as we move to pre-trial in limine hearings, etc...

Can we ask what's your thinking along Daubert lines as to the likes of admission for:

Are these things easy to admit via experts?
- the (estimated) 2 pixel manipulated enlargement 4-frame walking BG avatar getting admitted - for BG height estimates (if not for pocket "gun") ?
- the augmented voice data reprocessed/enhanced from Libby's 43 second video? (for voice match)

and of course how can this be an exhibit - or evidence: Does it require an expert/daubert too?
- Libby's original 43 second video? (no enhancements)?

How about the same, but with the purpose of timestamp evidence?
- Libby's original 43 second video?

And finally - the pings and the geofencing - how easy is it to enter these as evidence assuming its done via an Expert?

Thanks!

 

[Melted]

That is a big one for me too - how was his bullet at the scene if he was never at the scene before? Either he went there before the crime to scope it out and set up something and dropped a bullet, or he was there for the crime and dropped a bullet. He told LE he never loaned his gun out and that he'd never been to the property. Somewhere in here is a lie, UNLESS someone stole / borrowed his gun without him knowing and then put it back without him ever knowing which seems super doubtful to me! So he was there / somehow a part of this and if he wasn't then someone needs to explain that bullet because that is the sticking point for me and probably some jurors.

We have to also remember there is a chance that bullet did not come from RA’s gun at all. .40 caliber is a pretty common caliber and matching unspent rounds to a gun is pseudoscience at best

Imo

 

[WildHuncher]

But I don't.

Back to 0.

I was agreeing with @Willow Knight, @girlhasnoname was agreeing with me, so it’s back to 2.

 

[WildHuncher]

We have to also remember there is a chance that bullet did not come from RA’s gun at all. .40 caliber is a pretty common caliber and matching unspent rounds to a gun is pseudoscience at best

Imo

“Nonzero but < .000001,” he said, pulling a number out of his rectum.

ETA: If not ejected by him during the crime, what is a 40 caliber round doing there in those woods between those bodies? If not his cartridge, why do the dents and scratches even APPEAR to match his gun? He says he was never there. He says he never lent out the gun. How unlucky are we supposed to believe a guy can be? The word “reasonable” in BAR is there … wait for it … for a reason.

 

[Jade]

Has the Defense even said what Rick’s alibi is for after his walk? If so I’ve missed it.

I can’t imagine why all of their statements are not proceeded by: well, there’s no way anyway since Rick went ??? or stopped by his buddy’s house… or was seen on the neighbor’s camera arriving home earlier with glimpses of him working in the yard… or even, for goodness sakes, his wife says he was home in a jiffy clean and composed from his walk.


all imo

 

[AugustWest]

Hi @AugustWest

That's a very helpful explanation. IMO very important concept to understand as we move to pre-trial in limine hearings, etc...

Can we ask what's your thinking along Daubert lines as to the likes of admission for:

Are these things easy to admit via experts?
- the 2 p ixel manipulated enlargement 4-frame walking BG avatar getting admitted?the augmented voice data reprocessed/enhanced from Libby's 43 second video?

and of course how can this be an exhibit - or evidence: Does it require an expert/daubert too?
- Libby's original 43 second video? (no enhancements)?

How about the same, but with the purpose of timestamp evidence?
- Libby's original 43 second video?

And finally - the pings and the geofencing - how easy is it to enter these as evidence assuming its done via an Expert?

Thanks!

@Emma Peel

In order to get manipulated video in, you would first have to admit an original, then have your video expert testify to what its contents are, how it was manipulated, etc...

You would have to lay foundation for the original video to be introduced as an exhibit. To lay foundation, you would ask questions like so to the custodian of the video:

"I’m showing you what’s been marked as Exhibit x, do you know what this is?"

“Would you explain to the jury what this is.”

"How do you know this”

"Do these markings on the storage medium show when and who reviewed it? "

And so on....

Once an expert is deemed reliable by the judge (usually before trial), you would follow the same procedure as outlined above.

Video and visual are pretty standard experts, and much has been written and peer reviewed about their work, so not as hard as getting in a "I can identify a gun through clothes" expert.

 

[Emma Peel]

@Emma Peel

In order to get manipulated video in, you would first have to admit an original, then have your video expert testify to what its contents are, how it was manipulated, etc...

You would have to lay foundation for the original video to be introduced as an exhibit. To lay foundation, you would ask questions like so to the custodian of the video:

"I’m showing you what’s been marked as Exhibit x, do you know what this is?"

“Would you explain to the jury what this is.”

"How do you know this”

"Do these markings on the storage medium show when and who reviewed it? "

And so on....

Once an expert is deemed reliable by the judge (usually before trial), you would follow the same procedure as outlined above.

Video and visual are pretty standard experts, and much has been written and peer reviewed about their work, so not as hard as getting in a "I can identify a gun through clothes" expert.

thank u !

 

[TTF14]

“Nonzero but < .000001,” he said, pulling a number out of his rectum.

ETA: If not ejected by him during the crime, what is a 40 caliber round doing there in those woods between those bodies? If not his cartridge, why do the dents and scratches even APPEAR to match his gun? He says he was never there. He says he never lent out the gun. How unlucky are we supposed to believe a guy can be? The word “reasonable” in BAR is there … wait for it … for a reason.

I have learned through following this trial that people find bullets/casings in the woods all the time when trekking/hiking. And also that a lot of people did shooting around there.

I have no opinion about the markings as I know nothing about guns, but I look forward to hearing an expert talk about it.

 

[FrostedGlass]

We have to also remember there is a chance that bullet did not come from RA’s gun at all. .40 caliber is a pretty common caliber and matching unspent rounds to a gun is pseudoscience at best

Imo

The more I learn about that issue, the less I know.

What is a test fired cartridge case? That's what was entered into the IBIS database.
How are they able to compare that to the cycled casing?

Page 278 Certificate of Analysis

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

 

[zh0r4]

IMO, it's interesting that Barb McD continues to connect Judge Diener's 7-day-notice to the Delphi case.

Loretta Rush, referenced in the resignation Diener letter, is the Chief Justice of the Indiana Supreme Court.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786101796726874209

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786102116647383536

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785673246098051305

(The Indiana Supreme Court reviews cases referred to them by the Indiana Office of Judicial and Attorney Regulation and determines sanctions if any. )
Judicial disciplinary process

jmho

Are you suppose to move someone to a prison “for their safety” without a hearing or a lawyer? Do any of the attorneys here know if that is normal? Does anyone know of applicable Indiana law in this situation?

 

[TTF14]

Are you suppose to move someone to a prison “for their safety” without a hearing or a lawyer? Do any of the attorneys here know if that is normal? Does anyone know of applicable Indiana law in this situation?

And didn't they also say they wouldn't be able to transport him, yet Tony Liggett personally transported him?

 

[Salah11]

We have to also remember there is a chance that bullet did not come from RA’s gun at all. .40 caliber is a pretty common caliber and matching unspent rounds to a gun is pseudoscience at best

Imo

How many coincidences are too many?