Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

I know we need some good expert witnesses in this trial that can explain these things like phones and bullets. Sometimes I think experts make it worse.. way to technical and "sciency" and it goes right over most heads... Then we get the ones that can "dumb" it down just enough that we can all go "ohhhh okay"

In the trial for one of the Rhoden murderers (won't name him) the gun expert was Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation firearms expert Matthew White and he was so easy to listen too. You could tell he loved his job and he loved being able to teach others things in terms they could grasp.
I hear you! I'm always the one, when some tech goes awry with a glitchy tech problem who says, somewhat sarcastically, "Aahhh isn't technology grand!". But in fact, it truly can be grand in the courtroom:)
 
FWIW witness testimony is some of the worst.

RA himself would l likely be a poor witness.

I believe there was a cluster of four juveniles at the MHB that day. I believe they are the ones who encountered BG, resulting in four impressions, a couple of which identified him as unfriendly and on a mission.

Which matches.

RA didn't even recall how many of them there were. He didn't pay them much attention.

Which affirms the juveniles' impression.

It also tightens the timeline markedly.

Unless RA tripped over his own doppelganger, he was alone near the bridge when A and L crossed on yo it.

Yet no one saw a pair of BGs and RA himself never commented on such a thing which surely would be worth mentioning. Had it happened.

Try thought he may, try though the Defense does, RA can't get himself off the bridge.

And that's the crux of case.

JMO
I believe he did it or was part of it. It’s hard to imagine he left before the kids did when a witness puts him on the bridge as the kids approach it.
 
You know earlier today someone sent me back to review Todd Click’s testimony on March 18th hearing. Something has always struck me wrong his testimony; heavily coached and not genuine. IMO

Then when reviewing today I realized he testified that he reached out to a defense attorney friend to get advice after reading Richard Allen’s PCA. He never named this friend. Also according to my review the PCA wasn’t released to the public until
June 26,2023. Yet he testifies that he read the PCA and then reached out to his attorney friend and penned a letter to prosecution on April 28th 2023.
How did he have access to the PCA as a retired cop?

He made sure to send it certified and to word it in such a way that it would have to be discoverable to any defense counsel. This is addressed in his testimony.
Does this seem odd to anyone else but me?
A former deputy of Rushville having access to the PCA prior to the public and then purposefully penning a letter in such a way to create a discoverable conspiracy?
All moo

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf
Wow Cyber sleuth, good catch on that! That's very disturbing.
 
He also admits in his testimony to reviewing the August 2023 interview of BH (pg 28)from a thumb drive and having a thumb drive extraction from PW’s phone from August 12,2023. Surprisingly we never learn where he came to this information. A moment later he is talking about getting a phone from JM’s ex then poof he has extracted data from PW’s phone on a thumb drive? (Pgs 23-24)

Did AB have him sign a disclosure to abide by JG’s protective order? IMO it sounds like he was working as investigator for defense and needed to sign and get court permission to be getting access to discovery.
And hold on! How did he have access to discovery way back when defense is saying they didn’t even have it??
Make it make sense. All MOO

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf
Well, I’ve noted this before but…. At the beginning the defense did ask JG for funds for an investigator and we never heard whether or not she granted them one. I’ve previously considered Mw may have been in that role and have asserted same before but maybe it was TC (if anyone at all)?

 
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On the chance that a witness was impaired by the use of meth that day, what is its impact on memory?
It would probably fall under more inadmissible conspiracy theorizing? I suppose IF there was indisputable scientific proof it could be allowed into testimony to impeach a witness. But not just, I was with so and so that day and they were high. It would be a he/she said vs he/she said...not admissible?
 
Well, I’ve noted this before but…. At the beginning the defense did ask JG for funds for an investigator and we never heard whether or not she granted them one. I’ve previously considered Mw may have been in that role and have asserted same before but maybe it was TC (if anyone at all)?
Then could we say TC was untruthful when he answered questions beginning on page 4 line 18 when he testified about his current job and his previous job and his connection to the Delphi investigation in years prior?
JMO seems possible.
Seems that to be truthful under oath he should have disclosed directly that he had worked as an investigator for defense for the better part of 2023. His testimony dates his access to protected discovery from April 2023 until after the Franks Memo in September. Jmo

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf
 
Why

Why THIS guy?
I know some folks think it’s a frame job because LE wanted to close the case, election coming up, etc. I have disputed that because they could have closed it up with PE or DN if that was their goal and they were gonna frame someone. This is the first I have heard they targeted RA because he was RA.

Why?
Exactly. And why would the Odinist white supremacist ritualists want to murder two young Caucasian girls anyway? And then why would the innocent neighborhood drug store guy go on to confess to killing those two young girls over 20 times. What are the staggering odds of this fantastical perfect storm occurring? Not very, IMO
 
Oooo, oooo I nominate Dr. Kenny Kinsey from the Murdaugh trial. Humble but confident and knowledgable. Friendly, but will not be insulted, manipulated, or pushed around during testimony. Clear explanations of complicated forensics.

And who can forget (who watched the trial): "Really?? It's...it's a cone!"
He was a wonderful expert witness!
 
Then could we say TC was untruthful when he answered questions beginning on page 4 line 18 when he testified about his current job and his previous job and his connection to the Delphi investigation in years prior?
JMO seems possible.
Seems that to be truthful under oath he should have disclosed directly that he had worked as an investigator for defense for the better part of 2023. His testimony dates his access to protected discovery from April 2023 until after the Franks Memo in September. Jmo

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

Maybe he literally can’t if he was hired as a private investigator given the ex-parte communication and JG’s ruling on it was sealed?? Just a thought.
 

Maybe he literally can’t if he was hired as a private investigator given the ex-parte communication and JG’s ruling on it was sealed?? Just a thought.
Also note date of link? January 2023.

 
Then could we say TC was untruthful when he answered questions beginning on page 4 line 18 when he testified about his current job and his previous job and his connection to the Delphi investigation in years prior?
JMO seems possible.
Seems that to be truthful under oath he should have disclosed directly that he had worked as an investigator for defense for the better part of 2023. His testimony dates his access to protected discovery from April 2023 until after the Franks Memo in September. Jmo

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf
You got that right, disclosure of being a hired investigator, paid or pro bono would be appropriate in that situation, I would think. JMO
 
I really want to hear his confessions. Especially if he claimed he shot them.

I want to hear it for myself, especially in light of the fact that we believed neither girl was shot.

I want to hear it for myself, the specific verbiage, especially in light of Anthony_Shots.

Two definitions of shot.

To shoot, as with a weapon.

To shoot, as in to photograph.

Maybe RA did shoot the girls.

jmo

Let's imagine for a moment that he did "shoot" them. And that he had access to the AS account, or another of KAK's accounts, to upload the pics.

We know by now those were shared accounts, so not a stretch then to say that others may have logged in and seen the material uploaded from MHB, without being there in person (or knowing who it was who uploaded it).

That might explain why things seemed to escalate so much after KAK was arrested and LE got access to the source of the CSAM ring.

It might explain how certain other people could appear to have had early knowledge of the crime scene despite not being pursued as suspects for the murder of A&L.

It might explain why LE wanted to know about BG's associates but ultimately focused on prosecuting only one man: RA, who said he was there.

All MOO.
 
Regarding the ritual sacrifice comment. I think it's possible for a single killer to have a ritual sacrifice type killing. If that is what the crime scene looked like, it doesn't mean that a cult was engaging in a ritual sacrifice at that scene.

Just my opinion here, but many killers of young girls like this are serial killers. They have some urge to do this type of murder and I do think this was a fantasy of RA and he acted on it. In that sense I do think it was a "ritual" for him. This may have been his first time and maybe he's never again done something like this because of the media pressure on this case and the fact he lives in the town where he committed the crime and he needed to be a law abiding citizen so attention was brought back on him after he went and gave his voluntary statement. He got lucky that they misfiled him. I think he didn't want to bring on any more attention because he knew he was darn lucky.

If this didn't get attention like it did, I do wonder if he would have committed another murder. Maybe with a similar scene left. Then it would be easy to say it was a ritual because we'd know he did the same things over again.

Just some thoughts on Mr. Click's ritual comment. I think it could be true for a single lone killer to have a ritual and I'd say murdering 2 girls is a sacrafice. They didn't assault him, it wasn't an accident, it wasn't heat of the moment.. he took them to a second location and did what he did.

Also a scene looking like a ritual sacrifice could also just be a single man staging a scene to look like something else.
Yes!! Totally agreed. BG may actually be an SK. Or... maybe not. But just because he left this highly unusual CS doesn't mean it's a band of crazed fringe Odinites. It could still be a-- highly unusual lone killer. And that may be why BG was destined to always be a lone killer. Other cold-blooded murderers don't want to waste their time making symbols on trees, getting branches for "reasons" not more immediately grounded in reality. No matter what, we know this murderer is a very (!!) unusual person with an incredibly (and horrifyingly) twisted way of thinking. Anyone with any exposure to Odinism at any time in his twisted life could have become acquainted with runes. BG could have left those Odinite "clues" to mislead LE or he could have left them because they somehow align with his own twisted mindset in some way that would be unknown to pretty much all who knew him. Some symbols at a CS do not a band of crazed Odinists make.

And agreed on the urges, and I doubt they came on suddenly. John Kelly the profiler, I've watched him now many times, and he has wondered how this-- whatever BG is-- how BG has "satisfied" his inclinations in the past. We can speculate he did somehow. And it's a very frightening thought.
 
You know earlier today someone sent me back to review Todd Click’s testimony on March 18th hearing. Something has always struck me wrong his testimony; heavily coached and not genuine. IMO

Then when reviewing today I realized he testified that he reached out to a defense attorney friend to get advice after reading Richard Allen’s PCA. He never named this friend. Also according to my review the PCA wasn’t released to the public until
June 26,2023. Yet he testifies that he read the PCA and then reached out to his attorney friend and penned a letter to prosecution on April 28th 2023.
How did he have access to the PCA as a retired cop?

He made sure to send it certified and to word it in such a way that it would have to be discoverable to any defense counsel. This is addressed in his testimony.
Does this seem odd to anyone else but me?
A former deputy of Rushville having access to the PCA prior to the public and then purposefully penning a letter in such a way to create a discoverable conspiracy?
All moo

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf
11/22/2022: Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication filed by State of Indiana.

1//22/2022: Defendant appears in person and with counsel. State by Prosecuting Attorney. Hearing held on State's Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record. Matter taken under advisement. Defendant's Petition to Let to Bail ordered set for hearing in Carroll Circuit Court on February 17, 2023 at 10:00 am. Court to enter transport order. Omnibus date rescheduled to February 17, 2023 at 10:00 am by agreement of counsel.

11/29/2022: The Court, having had this matter under advisement following a hearing conducted on November 22, 2022, now denies the State's Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record, in part. The Court further finds that the Media Intervenors' Motion for Leave to Intervene is moot, and therefore, denied. Court orders that the redacted Charging Informations and Affidavit for Probable Cause, submitted by the State at the hearing on November 22, 2022, be filed with the Clerk of the Court with this Order, and further that the Clerk shall not release (without prior Court approval) the original, sealed unredacted Informations and Affidavit. (emphasis mine)

11/29/2022: redacted PCA filed.


November 29, 2022 is the date the redacted PCA was released.
 
You know earlier today someone sent me back to review Todd Click’s testimony on March 18th hearing. Something has always struck me wrong his testimony; heavily coached and not genuine. IMO

Then when reviewing today I realized he testified that he reached out to a defense attorney friend to get advice after reading Richard Allen’s PCA. He never named this friend. Also according to my review the PCA wasn’t released to the public until
June 26,2023. Yet he testifies that he read the PCA and then reached out to his attorney friend and penned a letter to prosecution on April 28th 2023.
How did he have access to the PCA as a retired cop?

He made sure to send it certified and to word it in such a way that it would have to be discoverable to any defense counsel. This is addressed in his testimony.
Does this seem odd to anyone else but me?
A former deputy of Rushville having access to the PCA prior to the public and then purposefully penning a letter in such a way to create a discoverable conspiracy?
All moo

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf
Kudos on your research.

Just to show TC wasn't leaning one way or the other, this probably should be noted about TC's defense attorney friend:

Page 15, 22 A
After Richard Allen was arrested, what, if anything, did you do?
I eventually contacted a friend of mine, who was a former prosecutor, and
was a criminal defense attorney.


During your sleuthing, did you happen to find out evidence of Click's employment, or lack of, during the time he left the Rushville LE force and when he became a parole agent with the State of Indiana?
 
An excerpt as to why Click made this work discoverable to the defense.
His attorney told him to.

23 Q In this document, you say, "I want to write to ensure you've been provided
24 all of the information associated with the investigative efforts for your use in this
25 [case and for disclosure to opposing counsel, as provided by law"; is that right?

2 Q Why'd you do that?

3 A Per the advice of my attorney, any information that was presented to the
Prosecutor's Office should also be discoverable to any defense counsel


 
I believe he did it or was part of it. It’s hard to imagine he left before the kids did when a witness puts him on the bridge as the kids approach it.
I agree with you. I think RA committed the murders as well based on the narratives he gave in 2017. He said he was there between 1:30-3:30 and walked across both the Freedom Bridge and the High Monan Bridge. He said he did not see anyone else at the High Bridge which is hard to believe considering photos show that Libby and Abby had begun walking across it by 2:14 PM. Also, if he himself wasn’t BG than IMO he possibly should have had a high likelihood of crossing or spotting this figure as well but such occurrence is not mentioned in his narrative. RA also stated in 2017 that he parked at the CPS building. The affidavit notes that a witness spotted a singular car parked at the CPS building and the description she gave was similar to that of one RA’s two cars. Similar to what another witness described BG wearing, RA also advised LE in 2022 that he wore a blue or black Carhatt jacket, blue jeans and a head covering. RA description of himself that matches that of BG given by 4 witnesses who were on the bridge. Furthermore, no other visitors who were on the trails that day between 2:14-4:30 PM recall seeing RA despite him stating he walked the same trails as before to get back to his vehicle.

Furthermore, not only does he own a Sig Sauer Model P226 but similar to LE’s profile of BG in 2017, RA was a frequent visitor to the Monan High Bridge and was noted as being quite comfortable walking across the old structure and along the park’s other trails. IMO his familiarity would have enabled him from avoiding being seen by other potential witnesses or those looking for Libby and Abby as he fled the park. As alluded to by prosecutors in RL’s warrant, I think it is also quite possible that RA prepared beforehand with a kill kit of his own that included both his gun, to scare and coerce the girls, and a knife to carry out his horrific crimes. Though I am not sure whether or not he targeted Libby and Abby specifically I agree with others who speculate that he chose that park and that day because he knew the local schools had a snow day off, there was chance multiple students would visit the park and with his familiarity and weapons and the design of the bridge and surrounding geography he could target, stalk and then corner an isolated minor or minors and coerce them to a predetermined kill site that would offer him isolation, coverage and an escape route. In other words, he potentially could operate like a vicious and terrifying predator that threatened the well-being of Delphis children and adolescents. Any skills or practice he had in hunting perhaps would only give him an even better advantage to neutralize his victims and carry out his kills while reducing his risk of harming himself or leaving too much of a mess on himself and any evidence that could link him in particular to the crime.

JMO speculation of course and could be wrong


 
That and BB turning around, while BG was at the first platform (the same spot RA put himself at in interview) and almost immediately encountered the girls headed towards the bridge. That stuff and his confessing to all sorts of people he came into contact with...guards, fellow companion inmates, the warden, a psychologist, his wife and mother and who knows how many others.
If RA is innocent, then why didn't he see Abby and Libby? I believe as with most killers, RA told some truth, but he couldn't bring himself to say he saw Abby and Libby. He sees others who also saw him, but when it comes to the girls, he didn't see them, didn't see the killer and I find it odd that no witnesses saw this man walking back the way he came on the trail to get to his car. So several people see him as he walks from the Freedom bridge and on to the Monan High Bridge, but then nobody sees him walk back and nobody sees Abby and Libby after the BB sees them walking toward the bridge where BB sees a man out on the platform where RA himself says he walked out to.

Bad for him he told enough of the truth that it was corroborated by witnesses and then he just vanishes off the trail at the same time the girls do, but he didn't see them or their killer.
 

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