Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[Emma Peel]

"...that the FBI felt worthy of pursing"? What the Odinists in Indiana? I'm sorry, not understanding what was meant by this? Are you saying the FBI is pursuing investigations on that subject because of Libby and Abby's murders? I've never read that but would be interested if you have a link.

I'm referencing the D's SODDI theory of case they have discussed ad nauseum ... see the FM, Click's witness statement, Click's deposition and Click's letters to both P and D with regard to the pursuit of the Rushvillle-Delphi Odinist angle of the Abby/Libby case by the FBI team he worked with out of Rushville. All have been linked to this forum ad nauseum.

In fact, the Court has scheduled the next hearing where this theory should be discussed in greater detail in order to prove that theory's nexus etc.. as admissible evidence for trial purposes. I expect we will get a great deal more detail on that theory via the hearing.

 

[Emma Peel]

Definitely another way to look at it. The sheer volume of confessions though doesn't lend itself to the RA confessed only because the Odinists threatened him. AJMO

Agree that we don't now understand (but jury will need to understand) the dynamic(s) that resulted in a massive volume of "confessions". JMHO.

 

[Emma Peel]

Outstanding docket biz question:
Have we still not seen (docketed) the recusal motion to the Court that Baldwin reportedly tried to provide courtesy copy to the Court in person on Tuesday? (Seems a long wait for something to hit the docket?)

If anyone knows otherwise, please link the D's most recent recusal motion to the thread. Thanks!

 

[FromGermany1]

Agree that we don't now understand (but jury will need to understand) the dynamic(s) that resulted in a massive volume of "confessions". JMHO.

Can it be, RA could have confessed to more crimes on young girls and had to hinder himself to confess to these, therefore he confessed to that last crime of double murder in Delphi again and again? To stop his blabber mouth from telling of another double murder or murder?
IF so: Can he actually tell the difference 100% or has he perhaps mixed up some facts in his confessions? You would have to know the exact wording of every confession; that would help LE. Maybe, he mixed some things from Iowa or elsewhere into his confessions?

 

[Emma Peel]

Can it be, RA could have confessed to more crimes on young girls and had to hinder himself to confess to these, therefore he confessed to that last crime of double murder in Delphi again and again? To stop his blabber mouth from telling of another double murder or murder?
IF so: Can he actually tell the difference 100% or has he perhaps mixed up some facts in his confessions? You would have to know the exact wording of every confession; that would help LE. Maybe, he mixed some things from Iowa or elsewhere into his confessions?

Gonna say a hard no on all the above.
JMHO

 

[Boxer]

Nope he also testified on having an evidence obtained from 2023. Long after he retired. He had viewed the 2023 interview with Brad Holder and phone extraction from Patrick Westfalls phone from 2023.

Pages 23-24 and 28.
March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

Obvious explanation he used his contacts to gain access.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Outstanding docket biz question:
Have we still not seen (docketed) the recusal motion to the Court that Baldwin reportedly tried to provide courtesy copy to the Court in person on Tuesday? (Seems a long wait for something to hit the docket?)

If anyone knows otherwise, please link the D's most recent recusal motion to the thread. Thanks!

I haven't seen it anywhere, nor have I seen anyone else saying they've seen it,

The D asked for the transcript; could there be something in there they want to confirm before the act on the recusal motion? JG granted the motion in a timely fashion so they should have it pretty quickly. imo

 

[Boxer]

I haven't seen it anywhere, nor have I seen anyone else saying they've seen it,

The D asked for the transcript; could there be something in there they want to confirm before the act on the recusal motion? JG granted the motion in a timely fashion so they should have it pretty quickly. imo

The D is interested only in creating a paper, email motion storm within which to endlessly point to something else than answer the questions of evidence.
It's one of the tools of grifting.

 

[somequestions]

If RA is innocent, then why didn't he see Abby and Libby? I believe as with most killers, RA told some truth, but he couldn't bring himself to say he saw Abby and Libby. He sees others who also saw him, but when it comes to the girls, he didn't see them, didn't see the killer and I find it odd that no witnesses saw this man walking back the way he came on the trail to get to his car. So several people see him as he walks from the Freedom bridge and on to the Monan High Bridge, but then nobody sees him walk back and nobody sees Abby and Libby after the BB sees them walking toward the bridge where BB sees a man out on the platform where RA himself says he walked out to.

Bad for him he told enough of the truth that it was corroborated by witnesses and then he just vanishes off the trail at the same time the girls do, but he didn't see them or their killer.

But why go and speak to the conservation officer at all? The only thing I can think of is maybe he knows that someone, the witness, saw him standing on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge.

Nobody actually saw Richard Allen with Abigail Williams and Liberty German as far as I know. Is this correct? Richard Allen would know nobody actually saw him with Abigail Williams and Liberty German. Simply being at the Monon High Bridge trail and passing some people on the trail does not mean much in terms of proof. Someone could have entered the area from the other side of the Monon High Bridge and left the same way.

If his confessions are genuine then he must be the killer, but he made some very strange decisions after the murders. Would this case have ever been solved if Richard Allen had not come forward?

 

[Vaderman]

How was the identity of the killer discovered?

Some believe it hasn't been discovered yet. MOO.

 

[katydid23]

The volume of confession engagement (esp. for an inmate held in solitary) is certainly impressive.

It will be interesting to understand who the confession witnesses are, and the conditions/context/timeframe under which they witnessed RA "confession(s)" and how they had the opportunity to engage w/RA.

We can't be sure, but as described, there seem to be quite a few different witnesses reporting "confessions", rather than a situation where one or two "trusted confidants" of RA reported.

It appears that a number of people were on alert and motivated to document/report confessions from RA. It will be interesting to learn how many were in the Odin brotherhood. Snitching on a fellow inmate has no negative result when that inmate is a child killer. Again, we'll find out more at trial.

JMHO

Except that his wife and mother were not Odinists. Nor was his prison psychologist, I presume. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

The D is interested only in creating a paper, email motion storm within which to endlessly point to something else than answer the questions of evidence.
It's one of the tools of grifting.

I'll be very surprised if it's what you say.

Grifting? Doubtful.
A grifter is a con artist: someone who swindles people out of money through fraud. If there's one type of person you don't want to trust, it's a grifter: someone who cheats others out of money. Grifters are also known as chiselers, defrauders, gougers, scammers, swindlers, and flim-flam men.

 

[New Penny]

Definitely another way to look at it. The sheer volume of confessions though doesn't lend itself to the RA confessed only because the Odinists threatened him. AJMO

But it could explain alleged hostilities the guards may have exhibited to RA as in “hey dude you’re giving us a bad name.”

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I'm referencing the D's SODDI theory of case they have discussed ad nauseum ... see the FM, Click's witness statement, Click's deposition and Click's letters to both P and D with regard to the pursuit of the Rushvillle-Delphi Odinist angle of the Abby/Libby case by the FBI team he worked with out of Rushville. All have been linked to this forum ad nauseum.

In fact, the Court has scheduled the next hearing where this theory should be discussed in greater detail in order to prove that theory's nexus etc.. as admissible evidence for trial purposes. I expect we will get a great deal more detail on that theory via the hearing.

Oh you were referring to Ferency, the Rushville detective and Murphy, the ISP detective who were also working the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force. I thought you were talking about actual FBI agents specifically formed to investigate local Odinists in Indiana because of Libby and Abby's murders.The FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force was already up and running before the murders and some local members of that diverted to help with the Delphi investigations sheer number of tips. Thanks for clearing that up for me, my bad

 

[sunshineray]

But why go and speak to the conservation officer at all? The only thing I can think of is maybe he knows that someone, the witness, saw him standing on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge.

Nobody actually saw Richard Allen with Abigail Williams and Liberty German as far as I know. Is this correct? Richard Allen would know nobody actually saw him with Abigail Williams and Liberty German. Simply being at the Monon High Bridge trail and passing some people on the trail does not mean much in terms of proof. Someone could have entered the area from the other side of the Monon High Bridge and left the same way.

If his confessions are genuine then he must be the killer, but he made some very strange decisions after the murders. Would this case have ever been solved if Richard Allen had not come forward?

I think being the local drug store but more than just a pharmacy, the local CVS would get lots of customers young and old. Maybe RA thought somebody might have recognized me on the trials/parking area?

 

[sunshineray]

Some believe it hasn't been discovered yet. MOO.

Possibly by review of tips and finding that miss filed CO report or a new tip coming in about RA talking about the murders (considering RA's proclivity for confessing, a real possibility). We don't know for sure yet...maybe it happened a review and then more interviews which led to a new tip being revealed?

 

[Emma Peel]

Oh you were referring to Ferency, the Rushville detective and Murphy, the ISP detective who were also working the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force. I thought you were talking about actual FBI agents specifically formed to investigate local Odinists in Indiana because of Libby and Abby's murders.The FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force was already up and running before the murders and some local members of that diverted to help with the Delphi investigations sheer number of tips. Thanks for clearing that up for me, my bad

I am interested in seeing FBI records on this case, as well as hearing the Rushville-inquiry testimony.
As to label-mincing; not relevant, IMO.

 

[snooptroop88]

Can it be, RA could have confessed to more crimes on young girls and had to hinder himself to confess to these, therefore he confessed to that last crime of double murder in Delphi again and again? To stop his blabber mouth from telling of another double murder or murder?
IF so: Can he actually tell the difference 100% or has he perhaps mixed up some facts in his confessions? You would have to know the exact wording of every confession; that would help LE. Maybe, he mixed some things from Iowa or elsewhere into his confessions?

Never thought of this before. Like okay, maybe he snapped and the facts of the killings in question are all jumbled up in the state he's in. And if SK, he's (at time of confessions) in a state where the facts of different murders are shuffling around in his head? Looking something up real quick. Source: "Many serial killers seem to go into a trance when they are stalking and killing a victim, and the violence they commit often has a dissociative effect on them emotionally."

Another source: An SK "remembers the characteristics of his victims because he wants to relive his crimes. He wants to reminisce about the good times he had inflicting pain and suffering on his victims. The location is almost irrelevant. The time frame is almost meaningless. What really counts is how the victim appeared during the crime, and how he changed the victim."

So what's really creepy to me about this is that the murderer remembers in vivid detail what the murderer views as "relevant," and basically what the murderer wants to remember. Maybe the rest is all something of a blurred haze. In light of RA's confessions, this is really creepy to me.

 

[FromGermany1]

If a murderer wants to relive his deed, maybe each confession is as good as that, what he would do otherwise in his quiet little room. In remand RA hasn't his "toys" available like a keepsake wooden box with a bullet in it or a victim's sock or a photo or whatever to enjoy his ritual; so maybe a confession is a replacement for his ritual. If you are RA, you possibly tend to exaggerate from time to time. Who knows, what he would do instead, if he were outside ..... MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I am interested in seeing FBI records on this case, as well as hearing the Rushville-inquiry testimony.
As to label-mincing; not relevant, IMO.

It would though be quite the bombshell if the FBI themselves decided Odinists in the Delphi, IN area warranted their own investigation! That would be shocking to find out, IMO. I do agree, it doesn't seem relevant.