Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

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It was I that brought forth the war horse comment. I was watching Defense Diaries one night and Motta made that point. I like to watch a variety on the case but I still stand behind the State and believe they have the evidence for a conviction.

I mentioned I would be proud if someone called me that and then I went on a tangent about this is why JG is tired of them playing in her court room. Quick mention on the D not filing the recusal. They did ask for the transcripts so they probably want to quote a few things from there.
 
Referencing the motions, not the OP --

First motion, to move RA -- they cooled the rhetoric about POW conditions. And, while they claim he is not a risk to those around him, they dropped the part where he might be a risk to himself. This is no small risk. Are we to believe he's fully recovered from his deplorable mental decline described in prior defense memos?

Second motion, a request for more funds, to onboard a third attorney. What?!? I thought they were ready for trial. Suddenly they're not? Suddenly they haven't been able to get through all 26 tb of discovery? Because the Prosecution didn't organize it for them. What? They testified before SCION they were ready for trial, that switching attorneys would interfere with RA's right to a speedy trial. They agreed with the schedule -- the three-week trial just days from now, to which they're now saying they need more time. But they didn't need it when the schedule was set?

They. Aren't. Ready.

How do you ask for a continuance without asking for a continuance? You tell the judge you have a super secret SO MUCH testimony that you'll need way more trial time, even thought you're unwilling to specify who you intent to call and to what they'll testify. No good faith proffer.

Judge cents the extension blind and now the Defense admits it wasn't ready!!! They need a third attorney because they haven't even finished with the State's discovery!

We'll never know, but IMO if the judge had not granted the longer trial (and new fall date), the Defense should have been forced to ask for the continuance!!! This was a clever work around!!! The Judge gave them the extra time (and months of additional prep time!) with zero showing from them, and they turn around and submit this motion for relief! They need another attorney to prepare for trial!! I can't state this big enough!! IMO with the last hearing, they TRICKED the Judge in order to get a continuance without having to ask for one! This crew that's been representing how ready they are!!!

Yeesh.

JMO
I agree that there is a Defense strategy afoot. But, IMO, it's not necessarily about readiness. To understand it, a broader view is necessary. There are many other risks/benefits for the D to consider. And, it's no small point that speedy trial is the decision of the D - and no other party.

Speedy trial is the D's constitutional prerogative (and not the Court's). There's zero need for trickery by the Defense. They only need to release the speedy trial demand; the Court will adjust. No Court agreement required. The Prosecution has no say.

IMO the D has previously expressed its interest in presenting its extended (SODDI) theory of defense. The Court stated it would not allow time for an extended defense on the "unmovable" speedy trial schedule; the D's only choice, should they wish to present that type of defense, is to give up the speedy trial.

Other possible considerations/risks/benefits:

- A skilled Defense makes no move without considering appellate strategy.

- This D believes their client will not be fairly served if this Judge does not recuse and there is another recusal motion on deck.

- The Court has suggested in language and in action that the Court is not inclined to admit evidence related to the D's theory of case.

- A longer timeline permits the Defense's Appellate teams to address what the D sees as ongoing unfair conditions for their client.

- The P continues to forward late (exculpatory) discovery to the D (most recently we learned of exculpatory discovery handed to the D as late as April 26th).

- The particular type of late-arriving discovery requires expert consult; experts require time.

- One major downside to speedy trial is RA's holding time and solitary prison conditions.

The D must weigh speedy trial vs fair trial. What are relative risks/consequences of speedy trial vs normal trial timeline? e.g.: From the D's view - due to time limits the Court (artificially?) imposed, one of the D's risk of keeping the speedy trial was not being able to presenting the case they planned. And yesterday we saw the D moving quickly to mitigate the major risk of conceding speedy trial - RA's safekeeping conditions.

As for Auger, the D's decision to bring Auger on full time for trial was made before last week's hearing. As described, the late arriving exculpatory discovery is largely FBI-related, technical and in Auger's wheelhouse.

In my view, there's complex risk/benefit decisions going on here; hopefully we'll better understand these more strategic choices as the case moves forward.

JMHO
 
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MOO.
Some might find it respectful.

I’ve asked a few female legal practitioners and none would care to be called by this term.

Anecdotal only.

Was a podcaster-you tuber the person who called her this or was the term used by someone directly involved in the proceedings?

I doubt Judge Gull knows or cares about a youtuber’s opinion.

MOO.
It is a term of respect and endearment for those who have nobly served in high ranks overseeing battles for decades. Agree that it can connotate that the elder servant is highly experienced and battle-wise and therefore firmly grounded in their views.

A professional female of a certain age and of a certain lengthy battle-filled career ... I believe ... would be as flattered as any of their male colleagues. Why should the long-serving gentlemen enjoy that affectionate label and not the gentlewomen?

I certainly hope Judge Gull (with Hennessey's help) is now far beyond any concern over youtubers. And this complement to Gull came from a legal professional; the delivery and context was respectful and offered in conversation and context to another legal expert - who is an old war horse in his own right, IMO.

JMHO
 
Some people can find offense at the simplest of things. Maybe if they looked up the history of war horses, they would feel differently about the term.

I don't know who called her a war horse; maybe ask the person who brought it up.

To me, Old War Horse is complimentary.
Now, Old Battle Axe….not so much.
 
Referencing the motions, not the OP --

First motion, to move RA -- they cooled the rhetoric about POW conditions. And, while they claim he is not a risk to those around him, they dropped the part where he might be a risk to himself. This is no small risk. Are we to believe he's fully recovered from his deplorable mental decline described in prior defense memos?

Second motion, a request for more funds, to onboard a third attorney. What?!? I thought they were ready for trial. Suddenly they're not? Suddenly they haven't been able to get through all 26 tb of discovery? Because the Prosecution didn't organize it for them. What? They testified before SCION they were ready for trial, that switching attorneys would interfere with RA's right to a speedy trial. They agreed with the schedule -- the three-week trial just days from now, to which they're now saying they need more time. But they didn't need it when the schedule was set?

They. Aren't. Ready.

How do you ask for a continuance without asking for a continuance? You tell the judge you have a super secret SO MUCH testimony that you'll need way more trial time, even thought you're unwilling to specify who you intent to call and to what they'll testify. No good faith proffer.

Judge cents the extension blind and now the Defense admits it wasn't ready!!! They need a third attorney because they haven't even finished with the State's discovery!

We'll never know, but IMO if the judge had not granted the longer trial (and new fall date), the Defense should have been forced to ask for the continuance!!! This was a clever work around!!! The Judge gave them the extra time (and months of additional prep time!) with zero showing from them, and they turn around and submit this motion for relief! They need another attorney to prepare for trial!! I can't state this big enough!! IMO with the last hearing, they TRICKED the Judge in order to get a continuance without having to ask for one! This crew that's been representing how ready they are!!!

Yeesh.

JMO

I feel the pain in this post. It articulated my thoughts exactly. Money for another attorney, unbelievable. Why can't Richard Allen use his portion of the profit from the sale of his home? They were never ready because IMO they feel their client, Richard Allen is guilty. I don't care what they say.

Has it been reported in MSM how much profit the sale of his home was? And these are the same attorneys that a few months back stated they would go pro bono? I feel Richard Allen and attorneys have taken enough blood money. This needs to end. If tax payers are being asked to give more money then we should have the right to ask questions. IMO
 
Bad for him he told enough of the truth that it was corroborated by witnesses and then he just vanishes off the trail at the same time the girls do, but he didn't see them or their killer.
RSBM. As much as I have concerns about the investigation, I can’t get past him as the perpetrator. You put it perfectly. It just makes too much sense. We don’t know that RA has a way to prove he wasn’t at the bridge. I was assuming he’d be able to show his phone connected to wifi at another location, similar to what we heard in the KAK interrogation when they told him his phone connected to someone’s wifi when he claimed to be elsewhere.

I hope the trial clears up the fuzzy (to me) areas of this investigation: why the two sketches and ‘change in direction’, how was KK ruled out (or connected), how did EF (?) describe aspects of the crime scene before he saw it, clarify the investigation in to the Odinists…

It is not a good look to have any LE testifying for the defense due to serious concerns in an investigation.

RSBM. For sure. I’ll be interested in his full testimony.
 
I agree that there is a Defense strategy afoot. But, IMO, it's not necessarily about readiness. To understand it, a broader view is necessary. There are many other risks/benefits for the D to consider. And, it's no small point that speedy trial is the decision of the D - and no other party.

Speedy trial is the D's constitutional prerogative (and not the Court's). There's zero need for trickery by the Defense. They only need to release the speedy trial demand; the Court will adjust. No Court agreement required. The Prosecution has no say.

IMO the D has previously expressed its interest in presenting its extended (SODDI) theory of defense. The Court stated it would not allow time for an extended defense on the "unmovable" speedy trial schedule; the D's only choice, should they wish to present that type of defense, is to give up the speedy trial.

Other possible considerations/risks/benefits:

- A skilled Defense makes no move without considering appellate strategy.

- This D believes their client will not be fairly served if this Judge does not recuse and there is another recusal motion on deck.

- The Court has suggested in language and in action that the Court is not inclined to admit evidence related to the D's theory of case.

- A longer timeline permits the Defense's Appellate teams to address what the D sees as ongoing unfair conditions for their client.

- The P continues to forward late (exculpatory) discovery to the D (most recently we learned of exculpatory discovery handed to the D as late as April 26th).

- The particular type of late-arriving discovery requires expert consult; experts require time.

- One major downside to speedy trial is RA's holding time and solitary prison conditions.

The D must weigh speedy trial vs fair trial. What are relative risks/consequences of speedy trial vs normal trial timeline? e.g.: From the D's view - due to time limits the Court (artificially?) imposed, one of the D's risk of keeping the speedy trial was not being able to presenting the case they planned. And yesterday we saw the D moving quickly to mitigate the major risk of conceding speedy trial - RA's safekeeping conditions.

As for Auger, the D's decision to bring Auger on full time for trial was made before last week's hearing. As described, the late arriving exculpatory discovery is largely FBI-related, technical and in Auger's wheelhouse.

In my view, there's complex risk/benefit decisions going on here; hopefully we'll better understand these more strategic choices as the case moves forward.

JMHO
I couldn't disagree more with your postulation of things that have transpired, respectfully.
 
It is a term of respect and endearment for those who have nobly served in high ranks overseeing battles for decades. Agree that it can connotate that the elder servant is highly experienced and battle-wise and therefore firmly grounded in their views.

A professional female of a certain age and of a certain lengthy battle-filled career ... I believe ... would be as flattered as any of their male colleagues. Why should the long-serving gentlemen enjoy that affectionate label and not the gentlewomen?

I certainly hope Judge Gull (with Hennessey's help) is now far beyond any concern over youtubers. And this complement to Gull came from a legal professional; the delivery and context was respectful and offered in conversation and context to another legal expert - who is an old war horse in his own right, IMO.

JMHO
You have a much more generous view of the Mottas' than I do. I do not believe showing any respect to JG was the point. JMO
 
I agree that there is a Defense strategy afoot. But, IMO, it's not necessarily about readiness. To understand it, a broader view is necessary. There are many other risks/benefits for the D to consider. And, it's no small point that speedy trial is the decision of the D - and no other party.

Speedy trial is the D's constitutional prerogative (and not the Court's). There's zero need for trickery by the Defense. They only need to release the speedy trial demand; the Court will adjust. No Court agreement required. The Prosecution has no say.

IMO the D has previously expressed its interest in presenting its extended (SODDI) theory of defense. The Court stated it would not allow time for an extended defense on the "unmovable" speedy trial schedule; the D's only choice, should they wish to present that type of defense, is to give up the speedy trial.

Other possible considerations/risks/benefits:

- A skilled Defense makes no move without considering appellate strategy.

- This D believes their client will not be fairly served if this Judge does not recuse and there is another recusal motion on deck.

- The Court has suggested in language and in action that the Court is not inclined to admit evidence related to the D's theory of case.

- A longer timeline permits the Defense's Appellate teams to address what the D sees as ongoing unfair conditions for their client.

- The P continues to forward late (exculpatory) discovery to the D (most recently we learned of exculpatory discovery handed to the D as late as April 26th).

- The particular type of late-arriving discovery requires expert consult; experts require time.

- One major downside to speedy trial is RA's holding time and solitary prison conditions.

The D must weigh speedy trial vs fair trial. What are relative risks/consequences of speedy trial vs normal trial timeline? e.g.: From the D's view - due to time limits the Court (artificially?) imposed, one of the D's risk of keeping the speedy trial was not being able to presenting the case they planned. And yesterday we saw the D moving quickly to mitigate the major risk of conceding speedy trial - RA's safekeeping conditions.

As for Auger, the D's decision to bring Auger on full time for trial was made before last week's hearing. As described, the late arriving exculpatory discovery is largely FBI-related, technical and in Auger's wheelhouse.

In my view, there's complex risk/benefit decisions going on here; hopefully we'll better understand these more strategic choices as the case moves forward.

JMHO

The only thing all this proves to me is that the defense does not give a rat’s rear about their client RA.
In the last year RA has confessed dozens of times, most of which we only recently found out about.
RA confessed to his wife and mother in recorded phone calls. His lawyers even admitted to that in court.
RA continued to confess to most any animate being he saw. This is true too, evidenced by the defense team filing to have two of the approximately two and a half dozen confessions suppressed.
Could it be, that RA is screaming a scream his attorneys are choosing to ignore. That RA is confessing to so many because his own attorneys won’t do what he wants and plea guilty. They are too busy playing their fun little games to do what’s best for RA, his family, Libby, Abby, their families, and Delphi. I hope I’m wrong but it sure feels like they are perpetuating this for no valid reason.
Not just my thoughts, but also my opinion.
 
The only thing all this proves to me is that the defense does not give a rat’s rear about their client RA.
In the last year RA has confessed dozens of times, most of which we only recently found out about.
RA confessed to his wife and mother in recorded phone calls. His lawyers even admitted to that in court.
RA continued to confess to most any animate being he saw. This is true too, evidenced by the defense team filing to have two of the approximately two and a half dozen confessions suppressed.
Could it be, that RA is screaming a scream his attorneys are choosing to ignore. That RA is confessing to so many because his own attorneys won’t do what he wants and plea guilty. They are too busy playing their fun little games to do what’s best for RA, his family, Libby, Abby, their families, and Delphi. I hope I’m wrong but it sure feels like they are perpetuating this for no valid reason.
Not just my thoughts, but also my opinion.

Very well said.

These defense attorneys are proving again and again they cannot be trusted.
 
The only thing all this proves to me is that the defense does not give a rat’s rear about their client RA.
In the last year RA has confessed dozens of times, most of which we only recently found out about.
RA confessed to his wife and mother in recorded phone calls. His lawyers even admitted to that in court.
RA continued to confess to most any animate being he saw. This is true too, evidenced by the defense team filing to have two of the approximately two and a half dozen confessions suppressed.
Could it be, that RA is screaming a scream his attorneys are choosing to ignore. That RA is confessing to so many because his own attorneys won’t do what he wants and plea guilty. They are too busy playing their fun little games to do what’s best for RA, his family, Libby, Abby, their families, and Delphi. I hope I’m wrong but it sure feels like they are perpetuating this for no valid reason.
Not just my thoughts, but also my opinion.
I have also asked myself already, if RA always agrees with the moves of his lawyers and if he understands, what they are doing "to his best". Maybe, he wants an end to all that and no delay after delay.
 
"Old war horse."

Okay, well, I guess when you're running a dog and pony show, the animal idioms roll off the pen. And a one-trick pony, at that: looking for potential RA scapegoats.*

* This passage contains three animal idioms. They may or may not be directed at Richard Allen's defense team. It's not like I said, "I think Richard Allen's defense team is horrendous." Had I been in a different position, I might have said that, perhaps. But I couldn't really say that at this moment. **

** Notice the asterisks with the rather obtuse explanations. Does this remind you of any certain document? Initials "FM"? I am unable to present any more hints at this time as to what this might mean. ***

*** In the event a quasi-investigation into the meaning of these notes or their subject matter is in order, a motion for parity will be filed, with subsequent consideration of crowdsourcing so as to ensure a level playing field.
 
"Old war horse."

Okay, well, I guess when you're running a dog and pony show, the animal idioms roll off the pen. And a one-trick pony, at that: looking for potential RA scapegoats.*

* This passage contains three animal idioms. They may or may not be directed at Richard Allen's defense team. It's not like I said, "I think Richard Allen's defense team is horrendous." Had I been in a different position, I might have said that, perhaps. But I couldn't really say that at this moment. **

** Notice the asterisks with the rather obtuse explanations. Does this remind you of any certain document? Initials "FM"? I am unable to present any more hints at this time as to what this might mean. ***

*** In the event a quasi-investigation into the meaning of these notes or their subject matter is in order, a motion for parity will be filed, with subsequent consideration of crowdsourcing so as to ensure a level playing field.
Did you just write Franks 5.0? ;)
 
"Old war horse."

Okay, well, I guess when you're running a dog and pony show, the animal idioms roll off the pen. And a one-trick pony, at that: looking for potential RA scapegoats.*

* This passage contains three animal idioms. They may or may not be directed at Richard Allen's defense team. It's not like I said, "I think Richard Allen's defense team is horrendous." Had I been in a different position, I might have said that, perhaps. But I couldn't really say that at this moment. **

** Notice the asterisks with the rather obtuse explanations. Does this remind you of any certain document? Initials "FM"? I am unable to present any more hints at this time as to what this might mean. ***

*** In the event a quasi-investigation into the meaning of these notes or their subject matter is in order, a motion for parity will be filed, with subsequent consideration of crowdsourcing so as to ensure a level playing field.
Except it wasn't any part of the "dog and pony show" who said it.
 
I feel the pain in this post. It articulated my thoughts exactly. Money for another attorney, unbelievable. Why can't Richard Allen use his portion of the profit from the sale of his home? They were never ready because IMO they feel their client, Richard Allen is guilty. I don't care what they say.

Has it been reported in MSM how much profit the sale of his home was? And these are the same attorneys that a few months back stated they would go pro bono? I feel Richard Allen and attorneys have taken enough blood money. This needs to end. If tax payers are being asked to give more money then we should have the right to ask questions. IMO
The Indiana Supreme Court opinion touches on the pro bono issue.
Case # 23S-OR-00311
Here are the excerpts:
***********
Baldwin then filed a Motion to Reconsider, also informing the court that he would not file a written motion to withdraw, he did not consider his oral withdrawal effective, and he would continue representing Allen. And Baldwin and Rozzi both entered new appearances as Allen’s privately retained pro bono counsel. But, after a hearing on October 31,the court entered an order stating that the special judge “previously found gross negligence by [Baldwin and Rozzi] in their representation of the Indiana Supreme Court | Case No. 23S‐OR‐311 | February 8, 2024 Page 5 of 17defendant,” and “[n]othing has changed in the intervening twelve (12)days that removes the Court’s grave concerns about their representation.” R. Vol. 1 at 38. So, over their “strenuous objections,” the court“ disqualifie[d] them from representing the defendant and affirm[ed] the appointment” of new public defenders. Id. The court also continued the January 8, 2024 trial date to October 15, 2024.
***
The framework we describe here mirrors how our Court has treated other drastic remedies that may conflict with parties’ due process rights. And our concern that disqualifying counsel introduced structural error—at least as it relates to disqualifying them as privately‐retained pro bono counsel—presents further extraordinary circumstances that prompt us to exercise our jurisdiction now to preserve the integrity of the trial proceedings going forward.
***
Allen could have sought a discretionary interlocutory appeal under Appellate Rule 14(B) when the trial judge dismissed his counsel and barred them from entering a pro bono appearance. There is no reason to presume Allen’s original-action counsel could not have pursued such an appeal on his behalf. And had Judge Gull refused the request and Allen been convicted, he would have had the ultimate appellate remedy: automatic reversal of any convictions based on his claim that the judge’s disqualification of counsel amounted to structural error. Gonzalez-Lopez, 548 U.S. at 150. Either appellate remedy—on interlocutory review or after final judgment—would have provided Allen all the relief to which he was entitled.
 
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