Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[FrostedGlass]

If a defendant is actually guilty of stabbing 2 girls to death in broad daylight in the park, and it is later determined he should have been held in jail instead of prison, would it be wise and judicial to set him free because of that constitutional issue?

That scenario always puts me in a quandary.

There's an F2 drug case in my county where they were caught red-handed with meth and fentanyl... a lot of it. Found guilty on all charges, given a very light sentence. Now comes the appeal talking about Miranda and a number of other issues. In this case, I'll be really, really angry if they get off because someone screwed up.

OTOH, I do not want the whole judicial side tromping all over our constitutional rights. As a life-long Indiana resident, I want our LE to know how to do their jobs right and I want our judges to make decisions that are constitutionally correct. IMO if they must know the laws and abide by them or else they should seek other employment.

 

[Andieinsyd]

I can think of one reason why pleading GUILTY would be a benefit to RA >>>>IF he was actually GUILTY then telling the truth and taking responsibility would be the right thing to do.

He seems to know that somehow since he apparently told those closest to him that he did it. He seemed to be committed to telling his truth to anyone who would listen.

Apparently he had been taking meds for depression for quite some time, before his arrest. And he was known to go out drinking as well---so that might not have been a good combination.

I'm not sure we can assume 'he was functioning well' for all that time.

How many times did they actually go meet with him?

If he had kept confessing and accepted a plea deal, it may have been the best thing for everyone IMO.

Do you think the P would actually offer a plea deal? What could they offer that would be palatable to victims families and the public?

 

[sunshineray]

That scenario always puts me in a quandary.

There's an F2 drug case in my county where they were caught red-handed with meth and fentanyl... a lot of it. Found guilty on all charges, given a very light sentence. Now comes the appeal talking about Miranda and a number of other issues. In this case, I'll be really, really angry if they get off because someone screwed up.

OTOH, I do not want the whole judicial side tromping all over our constitutional rights. As a life-long Indiana resident, I want our LE to know how to do their jobs right and I want our judges to make decisions that are constitutionally correct. IMO if they must know the laws and abide by them or else they should seek other employment.

If he had been kept in a county jail with less resources, less security/protection and health care...he winds up dead by another's hand or by his own...how does that weigh into it?

 

[sunshineray]

No one is actually stopping the media from going to the trial and reporting of course. And justice has worked well enough for years that way. Cameras in court is a pretty new thing and not common elsewhere.

I feel having cameras is more about direct public access than any transparency.

Ironically the reason why I'd actually support it in this case is to break the power of the youtubers who attend and then live stream. We wouldn't then need to rely on them spinning.

But in the end, few are going to watch this trial in relative terms, and justice is mostly about the parties having their day in court, and jurors reaching their verdcit following a fair hearing. It doesn't depend on whether we watch or not.

I guess also being a cynic, i doubt those who have strong views are going to believe in any contrary verdict, whether it's live streamed or not!

My 02c, MOO etc

I agree. I do hope though that they can maybe choose a few reporters and put them in a room with their phones/tablets with the trial piped in on audio. At least that way the public can get real time reporting and more content of the testimony and exhibits. I don't know if that's even done?

 

[sunshineray]

Do you think the P would actually offer a plea deal? What could they offer that would be palatable to victims families and the public?

Is the death penalty on the table in Indiana?

 

[DeDee]

If he had been kept in a county jail with less resources, less security/protection and health care...he winds up dead by another's hand or by his own...how does that weigh into it?

It's my strong opinion that the incarceration at Westville was intentional that he be guarded by Odins when Sheriff Tobe, who ordered the transfer, knew that Odin's had been investigated for responsibility for the murders of Abby and Libby.
For that reason, I believe it was an intention to break the prisoner by torture of threats, tasers, name calling and so forth. LEOs task force may not have thought RA could withstand the pressure and die as a result. I think his lawyers saved his life through revelations of the situation by making it known publicly. Not everyone in Indiana is aware how RA appeared emaciated in court chained into a chair with drool running out of his mouth.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO the 'doped up' idea is a red herring anyway.

The thing that would make him say a lot of stuff that is a fantasy is a psychosis. Clinical practitioners would be giving him medication to help with that. Who knows what it might be. Antipsychotics? possibly sedatives? Anti depressives?

I haven't heard any serious argument that they would be giving him anything that might make him utter a false confession. I especially react strongly to the idea that doctors are somehow in on the plot.

What i would believe is that if he was taking anti-psychotics, that would presumably be good evidence that he was actually psychotic.

Presumably this is where his medical assessments from that time will be critical.

MOO

RA was in good spirits, participating and engaged, content with the way his case was evolving according to the Defense on March 23.

On April 3rd, RA made the taped confessions to his wife and mother and broke his tablet.

On April 4th the Defense requested an emergency motion to transfer.

I'd bet $20 bucks that KA called the Defense immediately after RA confessed to her on the jailhouse recorded line and they knew their battleship was sunk. That's when the "psychosis", refusing to eat (except the feces), refusing to sleep conveniently started. Then the next thing we hear is that Ricky is running around confessing to anybody who would stand still long enough to listen.

I believe it was a planned, tactical move on the Defense part to lessen the impact of RA's confessions to his wife and Mother. The FM was also part of this strategy in that the Defense needed something so outrageous to lessen the impact of RA's confessions. The D has no defense against the charges of RA=BG=Killer. The FM was a Hail Mary pass to get the attention off of RA and focused on the Evil Odins and DOC being meanies.

Defendant Allen bounced back and began eating, sleeping and having rec time by June 15th in the Hearing for Motion to Let Bail and Motion to Transfer.

When is too coincidental just too coincidental? You can look at the timeline of events and clearly see a pattern of the case and RA's behavioral changes which tells me what I need to know.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

If he had been kept in a county jail with less resources, less security/protection and health care...he winds up dead by another's hand or by his own...how does that weigh into it?

Sadly, that certainly happens in county jails.

However there is no indication that there were death threats against him or by him. I'm not convinced he was suicidal prior to being placed in solitary confinement in Westville. Had Diener done this right, RA and his D could have made that decision. It's been hard for me to believe that Diener couldn't get a couple of extra LE to keep an eye on things until he had an atty.

I think moving him to Cass Co. jail is a safe alternative to where he is now.

 

[katydid23]

Do you think the P would actually offer a plea deal? What could they offer that would be palatable to victims families and the public?

Often, the grieving families want to avoid the horrors involved with a long torturous trial, and the uncertainty and stress. They don't want their deceased loved ones to be judged and scrutinised publicly, as often happens during a trial.
It is common for the defense to imply certain sketchy scenarios,....that kind of stuff greatly increases the families pain and frustration.

If the defendant takes full accountability, and accepts ample punishment, makes a full confession including what happened and why, etc, many families will accept that situation because they want it to be over.

 

[sunshineray]

It's my strong opinion that the incarceration at Westville was intentional that he be guarded by Odins when Sheriff Tobe, who ordered the transfer, knew that Odin's had been investigated for responsibility for the murders of Abby and Libby.
For that reason, I believe it was an intention to break the prisoner by torture of threats, tasers, name calling and so forth. LEOs task force may not have thought RA could withstand the pressure and die as a result. I think his lawyers saved his life through revelations of the situation by making it known publicly. Not everyone in Indiana is aware how RA appeared emaciated in court chained into a chair with drool running out of his mouth.

MOO

So Sheriff Tobe is in with the Odinists and purposely had RA transfered to Westville where he knew Odinist guards would be watching over him and abuse and threatened him until he confessed to two brutal child murders because all the Odinists in Carroll County...oh and in Rush County 100 miles away, are all in it together to frame little ole CVS worker RA from Delphi?

I'm sorry but respectfully, that sounds too fantastical for me.

As far as RA looking emancipated, I surely didn't think so. He was quite portly for his frame going into custody. MO, he was an overeater when he was arrested and lost some weight on a more healthy diet of three squares a day. He looks now to have gained some weight but not to where he's as portly as he was so maybe he's eating more buying more from the commissary? AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Sadly, that certainly happens in county jails.

However there is no indication that there were death threats against him or by him. I'm not convinced he was suicidal prior to being placed in solitary confinement in Westville. Had Diener done this right, RA and his D could have made that decision. It's been hard for me to believe that Diener couldn't get a couple of extra LE to keep an eye on things until he had an atty.

I think moving him to Cass Co. jail is a safe alternative to where he is now.

There was every indication, didn't Sheriff Tobe say he couldn't keep him safe?

 

[katydid23]

There was every indication, didn't Sheriff Tobe say he couldn't keep him safe?

I remember the original judge saying they were getting death threats about the defendant.

 

[snooptroop88]

I also have come to believe RA's guilty. Now, ok, that doesn't mean he is, obviously, jmo. But I'm just saying, I'm one of these people where it's almost impossible to convince me someone "should be" convicted in this day and age without DNA. Whatever I personally believe, however, I think RA's headed towards a conviction.

It's weird to see a situation where the client's best interests are almost diametrically opposed to the "best interests" of his lawyers. His lawyers are going to be set for life, conviction or not. YouTube spots, interviews, book deals. I wouldn't say they're household names, but they've obtained a certain level of notoriety thanks to their involvement in this case.

A plea deal for RA might be a godsend for him. But it would be a disaster for his attorneys. Do you really think they would be satisfied at this point with a plea deal?? It would be a stark repudiation of their long-held claim: Ricky's innocent. In the meantime, Ricky's out there confessing to anyone that'll listen, but hey, you listen--Ricky is innocent, Ricky's been set up by conniving, murderous Odinists, and the conspiracy reaches into high levels of LE and government.

I don't buy it, I don't think he's innocent. I think he did it. I hope he takes a plea deal. My gut tells me that trial will end in a conviction, and his lawyers will be crying for him all the way to the bank.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The answers to some of our questions are in this filing. Below are excerpts from the document.

04/11/2024

Memorandum/Brief Filed Memorandum of Law in Support of Defendant Allen's Motion to Suppress Filed By: Allen, Richard M.

2024 4/11 Allen Memorandum.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

(excerpts)
Prison records reflect that Allen was placed on "suicide watch" during the majority of his stay at the WCU, including upon his initial detention in November of 2022. (see attached Adult Mental Health Order of 11/3/22). This occurred despite the fact there were no underlying findings to suggest he was suicidal.
***
Allen had also battled depression throughout most of his adult life. He was medicated
over the course of his life and in fact, had sought out therapeutic resources to treat and manage
his depression. (see pp. 45 of INE).5 The IDOC gave very little consideration to Allen's
condition at the time of his intake and initial incarceration in the WCU, especially given the
unusual circumstances in which he was detained. It is also believed that Allen's medications were administered in less than consistent fashion while he was on the unit, all of which would
have contributed to his inability to endure his living environment during his pre-trial detention at
the WCU.
(Footnote)
5. Independent Neuropsychological Evaluation dated 3/31/24 offered up to the court in appendix form.
***
Allen's attorneys have conducted depositions, watched video from Allen's cell and other
video from within the prison, reviewed prison records regarding Allen's detention, reviewed
Allen's medical and psychiatric records, and listened to audio interviews of prison inmates and
guards conducted by law enforcement 'officials. Through this process, Allen's attorneys have
learned that Allen has been accused of making incriminating statements to both inmates and
guards. Nearly all of these statements appear to have occurred between mid-March of 2023 and
June of 2023. During this time frame, there also exists medical/psychiatric records suggesting
that Allen was in state of psychosis. (See attached Report of Treatment Review Committee
RC) Hearing).
***
All of this occurred while Allen's medications were being adjusted by the prison medical
team, the combination of which factors reduced him to nothing more than human experiment.
Allen's free will was overcome.

 

[mrjitty]

***
All of this occurred while Allen's medications were being adjusted by the prison medical
team, the combination of which factors reduced him to nothing more than human experiment.
Allen's free will was overcome.

RSBM / BBM

I hope they have the evidence to back up this remarkable claim.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSBM / BBM

I hope they have the evidence to back up this remarkable claim.

MOO

Sometimes one treatment doesn't work so they try another and another...
It can feel like it's one big experiment.
IMO

 

[Justice101]

RA was in good spirits, participating and engaged, content with the way his case was evolving according to the Defense on March 23.

On April 3rd, RA made the taped confessions to his wife and mother and broke his tablet.

On April 4th the Defense requested an emergency motion to transfer.

I'd bet $20 bucks that KA called the Defense immediately after RA confessed to her on the jailhouse recorded line and they knew their battleship was sunk. That's when the "psychosis", refusing to eat (except the feces), refusing to sleep conveniently started. Then the next thing we hear is that Ricky is running around confessing to anybody who would stand still long enough to listen.

I believe it was a planned, tactical move on the Defense part to lessen the impact of RA's confessions to his wife and Mother. The FM was also part of this strategy in that the Defense needed something so outrageous to lessen the impact of RA's confessions. The D has no defense against the charges of RA=BG=Killer. The FM was a Hail Mary pass to get the attention off of RA and focused on the Evil Odins and DOC being meanies.

Defendant Allen bounced back and began eating, sleeping and having rec time by June 15th in the Hearing for Motion to Let Bail and Motion to Transfer.

When is too coincidental just too coincidental? You can look at the timeline of events and clearly see a pattern of the case and RA's behavioral changes which tells me what I need to know.

JMO

I agree.

The Odins thing is going to be a dead end for the Defense.

It will not elicit enough reasonable doubt to change the outcome IMO.

The prosecution will pull the jury back to "Just the facts Ma'am" and will re-center them

 

[susiQ]

Lebrato sounds like he's from central casting for Defense Counsel should the re-instated counsel become un-instated again.

At first blush, this case reads like a SODDI defense dream.

Except for the exhaustive investigation that systematically ruled out once-promising leads.

And, while RA isn't a flashy lead, he's the one LE hasn't been able to eliminate...

That's where it sits for me.

JMO

RBBM
Respectfully, I must disagree.

It was by NO means an exhaustive investigation. In fact, Unified Command (oxymoron) neglected to investigative key actors exhaustively, those being the Rushville crew. I believe this was intentional due to direct links to BH and PW as well as someone else that many here are aware of but who appears can protect others from investigation. The Rushville angle was NEVER investigated properly. It should actually embarrass them that they did not. Click, Ferency and Murphy would have had they been given the tools necessary. This, in my opinion was all intentional.

LE has not been able to “eliminate” RA because they didn’t want to. Witness statements are a mess. Descriptions of the “guy”, cars, muddy NOT bloody, first sketch, second sketch, and so on. The FM was clear on the omissions in the PCA so they could get their timeline to implicate RA. Key phones were never investigated. Missing interviews. The appalling treatment RA received that induced psychosis in a once mentally efficient individual as seen by the transcript of his questioning by JH. I have to ask myself, did they do anything right?!

This case is anything but a done deal in my mind. R & B know ALL the brotherhood connections and why it is a huge problem for the P. What worries me is the old War Horse that should recuse herself. IMHO she has shown herself biased and therefore not the right judge for this case. I applaud Rozzi for calling her out. She knows nothing about this case and appears uninterested. Perhaps she’ll learn something in the next couple of weeks. We shall see. There’s no doubt in my mind, and many others, that should RA be found guilty, it will and should be appealed. Justice would require it.

All MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There was every indication, didn't Sheriff Tobe say he couldn't keep him safe?

Yes, TL said they did not have the staff, manpower or transportation ability to hold RA safely in CC. They also did not have mental health services.

Diener said it right when he recused himself for the "bloodlust" <his words> of people and media on this case and then the doxing of his families info and photos came out online. I believe he felt his safety and that of his family was in jeopardy. The small town of Delphi was wild for information after the arrest of RA. Abby and Libby were their girls, they wanted answers, and rightfully so.

Since RA rejected Court Appointed counsel and said he would hire his own attorney during his arraignment, a decision had to be made as to where RA would be the safest and provided access to mental health and transportation to Court.

To think all parties of LE, the Court and the IDOC participated in some grand conspiracy against Defendant Allen is more than a stretch, it borders on fanfic. IMO.

MOO

 

[vinayd]

Fairly confident the Odin angle will be silenced at next weeks hearings. We’ve heard enough about these folks. MOO