Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[Megnut]

Interesting line of query.

There's evidence. And there's an absence of evidence. And both evidence and the absence of evidence are evidence.

RA says he was at the bridge, on the path, on the bench, looking at fish (which puts him on the bridge) and looking at a stock ticker on his phone.

He says he saw a group of juveniles. A group of juveniles saw a man. He denied seeing anyone else. They did not describe seeing any additional men, at least that we know of. (Differences in witnesses' recall or perception, not included. We don't know who described black apparel, maybe the youngest witness. We don't know what was asked, whether prodded for recall. As in, what was he wearing? What color? Dark or light? Black? Blue? .... if a child is trying to remember accurately, words matter. Blue might mean sky-blue to them, not midnight blue. So if clothes were dark, black fits better than blue. But I digress....)

If RA was indeed using his phone, then it showed up in the tower dump. (Potentially he coukd have had a borrowed or burner phone which was an investigative dead end becayse they had no person to match it to.) If it was his personal phone, he'd have been outed years ago IMO. So what was his story, if his phone wasn't identified in the tower dump at a time he claims to have been using one?

Is this part of why he shifted his time to an earlier time? An attempt to dodge the trap he created for himself?

Phones are the new DNA. It'll get him either way.

Because, if he didn't have his phone with him, it lends to pre-planning, but also there will be a stop and restart timestamp for his phone usage which could only be damning.

JMO

 

[snooptroop88]

Interesting line of query.

There's evidence. And there's an absence of evidence. And both evidence and the absence of evidence are evidence.

RA says he was at the bridge, on the path, on the bench, looking at fish (which puts him on the bridge) and looking at a stock ticker on his phone.

He says he saw a group of juveniles. A group of juveniles saw a man. He denied seeing anyone else. (respectfully snipped for length)

If RA was indeed using his phone, then it showed up in the tower dump. Potentially he had a borrowed or burner phone which was an investigative dead end). If it was his personal phone, he'd have been outed years ago IMO. So what was his story, if his phone wasn't identified in the tower dump at a time he claims to have been using one?

Is this part of why he shifted his time to an earlier time? An attempt to dodge the trap he created for himself?

Phones are the new DNA. It'll get him either way.

Because, if he didn't have his phone with him, it lends to pre-planning, but also there will be a stop and restart timestamp for his phone usage which could only be damning.

JMO

"Is this part of why he shifted his time to an earlier time? An attempt to dodge the trap he created for himself?"

UMM, YES. MOO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

At least one was.

His.

If he had called his tip in, there would have been a record of it other than the DD mess.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If he had called his tip in, there would have been a record of it other than the DD mess.

Idk, if he called in on Feb 14th, maybe the FBI tip system wasn't up and running yet. It could have been just a tip someone wrote out.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

How would we know she didn't, though? Maybe he had his face disguised more for potential witnesses. Or maybe he really was so well disguised they couldn't tell. I don't believe it's BH, but out of all the voice samples I created for myself, this one was the closest other than RA. I still don't think it's BH though. And he's not charged, and even if he were, he's innocent till proven guilty. Delphi was undoubtedly a very small world, lots of lives intersected. I know people say RA was the unluckiest guy around, but these other guys are pretty unlucky, too, in that they've been targeted by the D to "shift focus." If D had real, substantive evidence against them, I'd sit up and listen, but D's just making unsubstantiated accusations, and that's the same thing they're screaming at the top of their lungs about with RA right now. I'm never going back into the Franks again for anything, not Vol 1, 2, 3 or 4. (Did I get them all?) If D can back it up, back it up. But they can't, and they've got a trial coming up where they have to deflect, weaken, and otherwise counter good evidence against their own client.

True. Hope we see the entire video taken by Libby, if there is ever a trial. The PCA seems to indicate they saw and heard BG up close.

The video recovered from Victim 2’s phone shows Victim 1 (Abby) walking southeast on Monon High Bridge while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victim mentions, “gun.” Near the end of the video a male is seen and heard telling the girls, “Guys, down the hill.” The girls then proceed to go down the hill and the video ends. —-PAGE 2

 

[snooptroop88]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I really hope he called or tipped on in before the 16th, when the tip line was set up. He was out on the trail and saw young girls on the trail the same day young girls vanished on that same trail. He doesn't know Abby or Libby (supposedly), and didn't get a good look at the girls he saw on the trail that day. How would he know he hadn't spotted victims? I know if I was in his position, I'd have been trying to call or contact someone ASAP. But maybe he did.

It'll be interesting to see the date on which RA offered information. The date hasn't been revealed. But I hope it was prior to the 16th. Even if it was, I think RA's guilty.

 

[FromGermany1]

"Is this part of why he shifted his time to an earlier time? An attempt to dodge the trap he created for himself?"

UMM, YES. MOO.

What I find quite strange is, that the time, the girls should have gotten picked up by father DG, also differed for 2 hours, and nobody knew the exact time. Talk had been about 2:30/3:00 pm OR 4:30/5:00 pm, if I remember well. Then comes RA 5 years later and states either 1:30 pm he was gone OR 3:30 pm he was gone. I don't see a connection, but an odd coincidence I see and I wonder. Why 2 hours difference with both of the stated times?

 

[FromGermany1]

He was out on the trail and saw young girls on the trail the same day young girls vanished on that same trail. He doesn't know Abby or Libby (supposedly), and didn't get a good look at the girls he saw on the trail that day. How would he know he hadn't spotted victims?

He explicitly mentioned the dark haired "witness-girl", and at that point (when he stated it to DD - did he?) he would have known, that Abby/Libby both weren't dark haired. Something, he found remarkable to have noticed. Later he knew anyway of course.

 

[snooptroop88]

Time on a trail is pretty relative with girls that age. What I'd be concerned about in that situation is when people stopped answering the phones. By 5:30, they knew something was wrong.

I don't see anything suspect about plenty of "wiggle room" on the time you pick up two 8th graders. I do see something very weird about a full grown man accused of murder asking now for two hours of "wiggle room" on his timeline.

 

[FromGermany1]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I really hope he called or tipped on in before the 16th, when the tip line was set up. He was out on the trail and saw young girls on the trail the same day young girls vanished on that same trail. He doesn't know Abby or Libby (supposedly), and didn't get a good look at the girls he saw on the trail that day. How would he know he hadn't spotted victims? I know if I was in his position, I'd have been trying to call or contact someone ASAP. But maybe he did.

It'll be interesting to see the date on which RA offered information. The date hasn't been revealed. But I hope it was prior to the 16th. Even if it was, I think RA's guilty.

Within a week after the double murder, so I mean to have seen, that his statement occurred. Of course, the exact day isn't transmitted, afaik.

 

[snooptroop88]

Within a week after the double murder, so I mean to have seen, that his statement occurred. Of course, the exact day isn't transmitted, afaik.

Really looking forward to seeing when exactly it was. (Respectfully, and I mean it.)

 

[EOA]

True. Hope we see the entire video taken by Libby, if there is ever a trial. The PCA seems to indicate they saw and heard BG up close.

The video recovered from Victim 2’s phone shows Victim 1 (Abby) walking southeast on Monon High Bridge while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victim mentions, “gun.” Near the end of the video a male is seen and heard telling the girls, “Guys, down the hill.” The girls then proceed to go down the hill and the video ends. —-PAGE 2

Per your last sentence “the girls proceed down the hill and the video ends”…. I have continually wondered what prompted the video to end? Any number of possibilities IMO (BG sees/takes/turns off phone, equipment issue/malfunction - LG thought she was still videoing, LG didn’t want the next chapter to be filmed, LG believed prior fears were now unwarranted, etc)

I had never considered the *possibility* that L was skeptical of the creepy guy approaching them from behind A so L began filming but soon-after stopped the video once A *might have* recognized the man whom L didn’t know, once he passed A, and A saw BG’s face.

Conceivable I suppose MOO, though not sure how the proclamation of Gun fits into it. In any event, why the video stopped once the descent of the hill began is to me a very defining piece of evidence if we ever find out..

 

[Megnut]

Libby may have inadvertently stopped the video in trying to reposition/hide her phone.

Jmo

 

[Justice101]

Per your last sentence “the girls proceed down the hill and the video ends”…. I have continually wondered what prompted the video to end? Any number of possibilities IMO (BG sees/takes/turns off phone, equipment issue/malfunction - LG thought she was still videoing, LG didn’t want the next chapter to be filmed, LG believed prior fears were now unwarranted, etc)

I had never considered the *possibility* that L was skeptical of the creepy guy approaching them from behind A so L began filming but soon-after stopped the video once A *might have* recognized the man whom L didn’t know, once he passed A, and A saw BG’s face.

Conceivable I suppose MOO, though not sure how the proclamation of Gun fits into it. In any event, why the video stopped once the descent of the hill began is to me a very defining piece of evidence if we ever find out..

I think she put the phone in her back pocket and sliding down the gravely embankment from the railroad tracks, her bottom hit the gravel and pushed the stop video button on her phone.

 

[sunshineray]

I must respectfully disagree. BH has not been “targeted by the D to shift focus.” BH was in fact a suspect from the getgo but LE “shifted” focus away from him. All the D is doing is shining a light on the discovery provided by the State, albeit in a very untimely fashion. Nay sayers can jump up and down and disparaged the D all they want. The truth is in the discovery and unfortunately also buried by lost interviews and misrepresentation of the facts by LE and the State.

This whole so-called investigation stinks. What’s worse is that the Judge is undeniably biased in favour of the State, preventing RA from getting a fair trial. Hopefully, she will have the decency to recuse. She’s no longer effective in her role. She has lost credibility with the people.

All MOO.

LE shifted focus away from BH because they investigated him and decided he was not a POI in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. That's an understandable and perfectly logical thing to do when investigating homicides. You have leads, some pan out, some don't.

Then defense lawyers with questionable ethics come along and decide to pick BH and his aquaintances out of the hundreds questioned by LE early on as the Some Other Dudes Did It (SODDI) defense for their client that's confessed multiple times that he killed the victims. They do this because they have no other avenue because their client also admitted being at the abuction/murders area on the day, at the time and was seen by numerous coberating witnesses.

Now I wonder why the D is so so obsessed with getting that SW thrown out? Why do they want to suppress it so very much? You'd think, it would make sense, if they believe their client is so innocent of these murders and just a patsy for the evil Odinists, there would be no worries about anything found at RA's home? It's just suppress, suppress, suppress and one more suppress with them. We are talking about a search warrant of a totally innocent man in their eyes, aren't we? What's the worry about? I don't understand it. AJMO

 

[FromGermany1]

One comment on a video about Abby/Libby passing the bridge and the man behind them (BG) was remarkable many years ago: The poster said, as if he would know, that the BG made the photo of Abby on the bridge. The poster got an offense by another poster (as usual), who asked, why HE would know that and if HE was present on the bridge at that time. The poster (initials JP) answered with a counter question, if the challenging poster would know better and if HE had been present on the bridge. Then both posters stopped.
Since then, I'm again and again thinking of it and whether it would have been possible and what would it have said about the ongoings on the bridge incl. the recording ......

 

[Megnut]

He explicitly mentioned the dark haired "witness-girl", and at that point (when he stated it to DD - did he?) he would have known, that Abby/Libby both weren't dark haired. Something, he found remarkable to have noticed. Later he knew anyway of course.

I never thought of that!!!!!

In a word, RA identified who he saw and described them in a way which loosely rules out Abby and Libby. I'd sure love to know what was in the press and already out in posters.

RA was basically testifying, in the negative, "I didn't see any girls with lighter hair. Didn't see any group of two girls".

He may as well have said, "I only saw girls that weren't Abby and Libby". So why didn't he tell DD that he saw a group of girls, wasn't paying close attention, but that Abby abd Libby could have been among them?

WELP. HUGE WELP.

He knew Abby and Libby weren't in that group he didn't even knowledge because he encountered those two, next.

Huge mistake.

And to think, he probably never thought there would be so much evidence pinpointing times that make it all but impossible for him not to have encountered Abby and Libby on the trail. With walking lady nailing the timestamps and Libby recording it for all time.

RA should have tried inventing some men coming up from under the far end of the bridge. With sticks in their hair.

There's only one man alone om the bridge with Abby and Libby, seen and heard on tape directing them down the hill, in line with where their bodies would be found. And only one man admits to being there, in clothes like that.... and would like now to change what time he said he was there.

RA pit himself on the bridge.

Jmo

 

[EOA]

I never thought of that!!!!!

In a word, RA identified who he saw and described them in a way which loosely rules out Abby and Libby. I'd sure love to know what was in the press and already out in posters.

RA was basically testifying, in the negative, "I didn't see any girls with lighter hair. Didn't see any group of two girls".

He may as well have said, "I only saw girls that weren't Abby and Libby". So why didn't he tell DD that he saw a group of girls, wasn't paying close attention, but that Abby abd Libby could have been among them?

WELP. HUGE WELP.

He knew Abby and Libby weren't in that group he didn't even knowledge because he encountered those two, next.

Huge mistake.

And to think, he probably never thought there would be so much evidence pinpointing times that make it all but impossible for him not to have encountered Abby and Libby on the trail. With walking lady nailing the timestamps and Libby recording it for all time.

RA should have tried inventing some men coming up from under the far end of the bridge. With sticks in their hair.

There's only one man alone om the bridge with Abby and Libby, seen and heard on tape directing them down the hill, in line with where their bodies would be found. And only one man admits to being there, in clothes like that.... and would like now to change what time he said he was there.

RA pit himself on the bridge.

Jmo

My recollection is that RA when talking to DD, didn’t rule out the possibility that A&L were in fact amongst the 3 girls he saw. He said he didn’t speak with the group of 3 nor look closely at them, only specifically remembering that a dark-haired girl within the group of 3 was “taller” (presumably taller than the other 2, though he could’ve meant taller than him or tall for her age??)

Based on DD’s follow-up note of “who were these three girls?” I certainly believe it plausible that DD suspected A&L were the 2 shorter ones and an abductor may have been the taller (older?) one.

Though it’s never said, IMO DD would likely have had some Missing Person photos (assuming his meeting with RA was morning of 2/14) of A&L to show RA at the interview to ask if he had seen these two, or if these two might’ve been part of the group of 3. So I believe RA would’ve been clued in on what A&L looked like.

Again a frustration that seemingly no confirmation (or not) has ever been released that… did the other group of 4 girls who saw a man…contain one girl who was dark-haired and noticeably taller? If so, it would surely seem to put RA on LE’s timeline. If not, then we’re left with possibilities including 2 different girl groups or RA fabrication of story.

 

[WildHuncher]

True. Hope we see the entire video taken by Libby, if there is ever a trial. The PCA seems to indicate they saw and heard BG up close.

The video recovered from Victim 2’s phone shows Victim 1 (Abby) walking southeast on Monon High Bridge while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victim mentions, “gun.” Near the end of the video a male is seen and heard telling the girls, “Guys, down the hill.” The girls then proceed to go down the hill and the video ends. —-PAGE 2

But if there were closer, clearer images of BG on the video, LE would have used those for the manhunt. Maybe it’s just his feet?

 

[Justice101]

I never thought of that!!!!!

In a word, RA identified who he saw and described them in a way which loosely rules out Abby and Libby. I'd sure love to know what was in the press and already out in posters.

RA was basically testifying, in the negative, "I didn't see any girls with lighter hair. Didn't see any group of two girls".

He may as well have said, "I only saw girls that weren't Abby and Libby". So why didn't he tell DD that he saw a group of girls, wasn't paying close attention, but that Abby abd Libby could have been among them?

WELP. HUGE WELP.

He knew Abby and Libby weren't in that group he didn't even knowledge because he encountered those two, next.

Huge mistake.

And to think, he probably never thought there would be so much evidence pinpointing times that make it all but impossible for him not to have encountered Abby and Libby on the trail. With walking lady nailing the timestamps and Libby recording it for all time.

RA should have tried inventing some men coming up from under the far end of the bridge. With sticks in their hair.

There's only one man alone om the bridge with Abby and Libby, seen and heard on tape directing them down the hill, in line with where their bodies would be found. And only one man admits to being there, in clothes like that.... and would like now to change what time he said he was there.

RA pit himself on the bridge.

Jmo

AND... reportedly confessed to multiple people on the phone and in prison