Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[FrostedGlass]

This part: “something covering his mouth”

View attachment 505762

Yes, thanks, I've read that... many times.

My intent was to clarify that RA never said he was wearing a face covering. He also said his jacket had a hood and that he may have been wearing some type of a head covering.

 

[Boxer]

Yes

When RA state "He then walked back and sat on a bench..." Is it in the context of walking back from the platform on the bridge to the same trail BB left on and passed the girls heading towards the bridge?

Anyone know how far this bench is from the start of the bridge? Is it that bench right at the beginning of the trail where the Preserve sign is or is there another bench closer to the bridge?

Yes. There were 3 benches on the trail. One at the Mears lot where the lower trail splits off, one midway to FB and one closer to FB.

 

[Willow Knight]

Here's hoping that the families of Abby and Libby can find some ounce of peace until this trial starts. I feel so bad that it is always full steam ahead, and then, SLAM ON THE BRAKES.

It wasn't our daughters, granddaughters who were viciously slain over 7 years ago. It wasn't their photos that have been leaked all over the internet and purposely graphic depictions of the crime scene described in a cursed Memo for Franks. These are real people who have lived a nightmare of outlandish and exploitive moves against their children and themselves. No one deserves to suffer the treatment and loss as they have.

It goes beyond my comprehension, but I have a peace that RA is going to be found guilty (RA=BG=Killer) and hopefully they will be able to start one tiny step towards healing. They all deserve that, this is not a game to be won or lost. It is a matter of Justice and Truth for Abby and Libby.

JMO

And the families are under a gag order so they can't release their frustration and anger as many people would by now. My opinion is the family is so over this circus. Their pain must be tremendous right now. I hope when this is over, they all sue those that used the death of Libby and Abby to further their agenda.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, thanks, I've read that... many times.

My intent was to clarify that RA never said he was wearing a face covering. He also said his jacket had a hood and that he may have been wearing some type of a head covering.

Was that the description he gave DD within days of the murders? I thought that was a description given to LE 6 years after the murders?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Was that the description he gave DD within days of the murders? I thought that was a description given to LE 6 years after the murders?

No.
You are correct.

 

[Emma Peel]

Transcript: Safekeeping Hearing Transcript - from June 15, 2023
(note: for last year's hearing; the transcript has been made available.)

pages 1-90
6.15.23 Safekeeping - Google Drive

pages 90-165 (end)
6.15.23 Safekeeping - Google Drive

 

[somequestions]

If Richard Allen during his October 2022 interrogation admitted to being the person in Liberty German's phone video, then I think that is going to be hard to overcome. I could understand how a jury would then find him guilty of the crime if Richard Allen admitted to being the person in Liberty German's phone video since at that time, he was not in prison yet.

If Richard Allen made such a major admission, like admitting to being the person in the phone video, why would that not make it into the PCA? Whether Richard Allen is guilty or not, the story and facts known to the public at this time, do not make a lot of sense.

 

[Spartygirl]

That cursed FM talks about everyone as a joke and in derogatory fashion. Rozzi and Baldwin have painted a picture and the ironic thing, to me at least, it that they look like the biggest joke of all.

It's only my thought that I've shared before, RA called the tip line to tell he'd been there (he knew he was seen) and they set it up for him to speak with CO DD at the grocery store near his work, convenient. Which works out great because I can assure you, RA didn't want to be walking through LE offices looking like BG.

JMO

Just bouncing some thoughts off of your post

RA met with DD to say he was at the bridge, FEB 13th, at the same time Libby & Abby were there.
He described the clothes he was wearing that day.

IMO, this meeting with DD took place within few days of girls missing/found, and BEFORE the Video/ Photo of BG on bridge was released,,,,,but we dont have confirmation of the date of meeting.
So if we are to believe Richard Allen’s side of this - he went out to the trails, parked likely at the old CPS building and walked out onto the bridge wearing a blue Carhart jacket and was there between 1:30 and 3:30 pm on Feb 13, 2017.
And he went to authorities that day or so and revealed this - and said he saw nothing but the 3 young witnesses.

NOW-- Fast forward to when the Video/Photo of BG released ---
After he sees his picture and video for 5 plus years on every television and billboard and news article and he does NOT say to LE - “ Hey, that’s me in this image-- but I didn’t do it?”

And to let the whole world go down the nation wide manhunt for this man in the pictures without trying to debunk this?

Richard Allen has declared his own guilt.

Plus confessing to multiple people that .. Yes, I did Murder Libby & Abby

Yet his D-circus team ignores all these incriminating facts and instead plays the game of SODDI-- mainly the Odinists, with naming innocent men, with LE protection to boot. OMG

I hope once RA's trial is over that Becky, Anna, Carrie and families launch a civil suit and that BH and company do also for slander.

This is about LIBBY & ABBY-- and we need to remain focused on them.

 

[Spartygirl]

When RA state "He then walked back and sat on a bench..." Is it in the context of walking back from the platform on the bridge to the same trail BB left on and passed the girls heading towards the bridge?

Anyone know how far this bench is from the start of the bridge? Is it that bench right at the beginning of the trail where the Preserve sign is or is there another bench closer to the bridge?

It would probably be the bench at the crossing of both 501 & 503 trails by the Mears Parking lot.
That is the closest one to the MHB and where he would have been sitting if he saw the girls after they were dropped off.

 

[EOA]

Just bouncing some thoughts off of your post

RA met with DD to say he was at the bridge, FEB 13th, at the same time Libby & Abby were there.
He described the clothes he was wearing that day.

IMO, this meeting with DD took place within few days of girls missing/found, and BEFORE the Video/ Photo of BG on bridge was released,,,,,but we dont have confirmation of the date of meeting.
So if we are to believe Richard Allen’s side of this - he went out to the trails, parked likely at the old CPS building and walked out onto the bridge wearing a blue Carhart jacket and was there between 1:30 and 3:30 pm on Feb 13, 2017.
And he went to authorities that day or so and revealed this - and said he saw nothing but the 3 young witnesses.

NOW-- Fast forward to when the Video/Photo of BG released ---
After he sees his picture and video for 5 plus years on every television and billboard and news article and he does NOT say to LE - “ Hey, that’s me in this image-- but I didn’t do it?”

And to let the whole world go down the nation wide manhunt for this man in the pictures without trying to debunk this?

Richard Allen has declared his own guilt.

Plus confessing to multiple people that .. Yes, I did Murder Libby & Abby

Yet his D-circus team ignores all these incriminating facts and instead plays the game of SODDI-- mainly the Odinists, with naming innocent men, with LE protection to boot. OMG

I hope once RA's trial is over that Becky, Anna, Carrie and families launch a civil suit and that BH and company do also for slander.

This is about LIBBY & ABBY-- and we need to remain focused on them.

View attachment 506042

 

[EOA]

I agree with much of your post, but in the DD interview RA did not describe the clothes he was wearing on 2/13, he did not specifically mention the CPS building for parking, nor did he say in that interview that he went out onto the bridge. The clothing and the first platform mentions came during the 2022 interview long after the photo and video release.

That’s what causes the conflicting feelings in some, as by the time that info was discovered there was every reason for him not to have said those incriminating things if he was guilty or felt like LE was suspicious of him.

 

[Melted]

Just my opinion but I feel like the defense dropped the biggest bombshell of this case when they released the deposition info from Brad Holder that he had met Abby at Patrick Westfalls and it seems nobody is talking about it

 

[FrostedGlass]

Just my opinion but I feel like the defense dropped the biggest bombshell of this case when they released the deposition info from Brad Holder that he had met Abby at Patrick Westfalls and it seems nobody is talking about it

I'm really curious but can't think of any possible reason for that meeting.

Motion to Dismiss

drive.google.com

32.Also, at said May 2, 2024 deposition, Brad Holder told a third different
story concerning how many times he met victim Abigail Williams (two
times) and that one of Brad Holder’s meetings with Abby Williams took
place at Patrick Westfall’s house.

33.When Jerry Holeman was confronted with Brad Holder’s ever-changing
stories concerning how many times Brad Holder met Abby Williams,
Holeman stated: “Perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, that he
remembered somebody insignificant. If you’ve only met them twice, you
may not remember that, so I don’t see exactly what you’re asking me.”
(Holeman depo. p. 4, lines 1-15)(Emphasis added)

34.When Holeman was asked if it were likely that Brad Holder would not
remember meeting Abby when Holder was asked three days after the
murders at his February 17, 2017 interview, but then seven year later he
would remember meeting Abby twice, Holeman responded: “Possibly,
yeah.” (Holeman depo. p. 4, lines 16-21).

05/20/2024

Motion to Dismiss Filed Defendant's Second Motion to Dismiss Filed By: Allen, Richard M.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm really curious but can't think of any possible reason for that meeting.

Motion to Dismiss

drive.google.com

32.Also, at said May 2, 2024 deposition, Brad Holder told a third different
story concerning how many times he met victim Abigail Williams (two
times) and that one of Brad Holder’s meetings with Abby Williams took
place at Patrick Westfall’s house.

33.When Jerry Holeman was confronted with Brad Holder’s ever-changing
stories concerning how many times Brad Holder met Abby Williams,
Holeman stated: “Perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, that he
remembered somebody insignificant. If you’ve only met them twice, you
may not remember that, so I don’t see exactly what you’re asking me.”
(Holeman depo. p. 4, lines 1-15)(Emphasis added)

34.When Holeman was asked if it were likely that Brad Holder would not
remember meeting Abby when Holder was asked three days after the
murders at his February 17, 2017 interview, but then seven year later he
would remember meeting Abby twice, Holeman responded: “Possibly,
yeah.” (Holeman depo. p. 4, lines 16-21).

05/20/2024

Motion to Dismiss Filed Defendant's Second Motion to Dismiss Filed By: Allen, Richard M.

Personally I am struggling to see the bombshell here?

What am I missing?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Personally I am struggling to see the bombshell here?

What am I missing?

"Bombshell" wasn't my description.

However, I do think the BH changing his story about A 3 times is worthy of consideration.
That he placed A with himself and PW makes me wonder what connection A would have with those 2 men.

 

[mrjitty]

"Bombshell" wasn't my description.

Sure that was aimed at @Melted. Apologies.

However, I do think the BH changing his story about A 3 times is worthy of consideration.
That he placed A with himself and PW makes me wonder what connection A would have with those 2 men.

I agree it might be something investigators would look at but does it rise to the standard of a court looking at it? To me this feels like innuendo when they don't have anything to incriminate either BH or PW and BH has an alibi. If I've understood people's posts here (I was not around in the pre-arrest days), these guys were looked at precisely because of social connection and the paganism stuff, but that is a theory - not actually evidence IMO.

MOO.

 

[Salah11]

RA changed his time line as well and they have evidence he did it.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Sure that was aimed at @Melted. Apologies.


I agree it might be something investigators would look at but does it rise to the standard of a court looking at it? To me this feels like innuendo when they don't have anything to incriminate either BH or PW and BH has an alibi. If I've understood people's posts here (I was not around in the pre-arrest days), these guys were looked at precisely because of social connection and the paganism stuff, but that is a theory - not actually evidence IMO.

MOO.

IMO It absolutely is something the LE should have looked into.

We don't know what they have because the first LE interviews with them were erased and the second interview with BH cannot be found.

This was the second interview with LE a year or two later
29. On May 13, 2024, the prosecution advised the Defense by email that they
cannot locate an interview of Brad Holder at the Logansport PD and have
no record of Brad Holder’s phone being downloaded.

There are 20 pages worth of things that don't seem quite right, IMO

Motion to Dismiss

drive.google.com

 

[mrjitty]

IMO It absolutely is something the LE should have looked into.

We don't know what they have because the first LE interviews with them were erased and the second interview with BH cannot be found.

This was the second interview with LE a year or two later
29. On May 13, 2024, the prosecution advised the Defense by email that they
cannot locate an interview of Brad Holder at the Logansport PD and have
no record of Brad Holder’s phone being downloaded.

There are 20 pages worth of things that don't seem quite right, IMO

Motion to Dismiss

drive.google.com

sure but he was investigated and they confirmed an alibi so that rules him out. what am i missing here?

i guess i am struggling with how alleged missing evidence can lead anywhere unless we are going to argue there is an intentional coverup. But that is a very heavy lift?

is that where you lean?

ETA: I am generally quite confused about the latest motion to dismiss and the first motion dismiss. When I followed that hearing, the defence came nowhere close to showing these guys were seriously in play. Of course that burden is tough if all the evidence was lost - but he does have a confirmed alibi so ....?

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

sure but he was investigated and they confirmed an alibi so that rules him out. what am i missing here?

i guess i am struggling with how alleged missing evidence can lead anywhere unless we are going to argue there is an intentional coverup. But that is a very heavy lift?

is that where you lean?

ETA: I am generally quite confused about the latest motion to dismiss and the first motion dismiss. When I followed that hearing, the defence came nowhere close to showing these guys were seriously in play. Of course that burden is tough if all the evidence was lost - but he does have a confirmed alibi so ....?

MOO

Franks, Vol 1, p 127:
"They don’t teach you in law school what to do when your client, who is accused of murder, is being guarded by members of a religious cult whose members, evidence strongly supports, were the actual murderers.183 Yet, that is where we are."

Here's the ever-important footnote: "183 Again, the Defense is not claiming that Sgt. Jones and Sgt. Robinson are involved in the murders, just that they are Odinites, members of the same religious cult that evidence strongly supports were involved in the murders of Abby and Libby."

Um, so if you're not claiming that the guards are the murderers, why does this matter? Are you suggesting guilt by association? Are you suggesting prison guards sporting Odinite symbols are like mindless robots, programmed to torment your innocent client RA? What is the implication of this "footnote"?

It's a heavy lift. Again, just leave this very lengthy sentence at this: "They don’t teach you in law school what to do"

I'm not arguing.