Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[Vern]

:::::::::::::::::biting my tongue::::::::::::::

I sincerely hope that you're not injuring yourself. She did not scold the Jury.

She actually admonished the gallery.

Link below IMO.

Scolding gallery for talking explained

DELPHI, Ind. — A computer analysis expert testified on Tuesday and claimed that her findings revealed that a headphone jack was plugged into Libby German’s phone only 10 minutes after it stopped moving.

The jack then disconnected nearly five hours later in the dead of night.

This shocking revelation was revealed to jurors for the first time and caused a stir within the courtroom that eventually led to Special Judge Fran Gull scolding the gallery for talking.

https://fox59.com/news/delphi-murders-expert-says-headphone-jack-inserted-into-libbys-phone-removed-in-dead-of-night/

 

[Warwick7]

Are they not supposed to talk amongst themselves?

I don't think so. No.

 

[SouthEnd]

And do you know how the headphone connection info would show up in a cellebrite extraction report?

Yeah, neither do I.

I can say based from what I know about databases, that if your phone shows you a notification re: headphones, that notification gets logged in the database that cellebrite reads. It reads every event, and a notification is an event.

Just my own experience.

 

[Warwick7]

I sincerely hope that you're not injuring yourself. She did not scold the Jury.

She actually admonished the gallery.

Link below IMO.

Oh wow!

 

[Vern]

I don't think so. No.

Thay can talk to each other about the case, but only when all of them are present and not while in-session.

Needless, it was the gallery scolded for talking today, not the Jury.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Thay can talk to each other about the case, but only when all of them are present and not while in-session.

Needless, it was the gallery scolded for talking today, not the Jury.

Okay, so where did the rumor come that she scolded the jury!
And I didn’t think jurors were allowed to discuss the case until both sides rested and they were in the deliberation room together.

 

[Vern]

Okay, so where did the rumor come that she scolded the jury!
And I didn’t think jurors were allowed to discuss the case until both sides rested and they were in the deliberation room together.

I don't know, but in the famous words of Shaggy, "It wasn't me."

The details of when they can talk amongst each other are screen-shotted below.

Page 12. _Instructions of Court Pursuant to Criminal Rule and Jury Rule 20 of the Indiana Supreme Court of the State of Indiana.pdf

 

[vls12345]

Why would you expect it to behave differently? Water entered the port and completed the circuit of the sensor that detects a headphone jack being inserted. The circuit stayed completed until enough water dissipated to break the circuit.

What is curious is the 10:32 time coincides with some piece of data being received by the phone that was talked about during Cecil’s original testimony and his testimony back in August. I don’t recall if it was a text or what, but additional vibrations would explain the water being disturbed enough to break the circuit in the same way it completed it in the first place.

JMO

I think people are incorrectly jumping to the word "DAMAGE" when it comes to water and the phone.

Water or dirt can be in the headphone port and complete the circuit, making the phone think something was plugged in--that is caused by the water or debris completing the circuit NOT damaging it.

Hours go by...the water moisture evaporates or water droplet/dirt particle shifts because it was just dangling in there....circuit is no longer complete, phone thinks something was unplugged from the jack.

A phone can have water in a port without it being damaged or registering as damaged by the phone--but it can be just enough to complete a circuit in the headphone jack.

Very logical explanations and I totally agree.

Folks here are guessing there are some jurors with firearms knowledge and some with mental health knowledge. I predict there are probably a few with engineering knowledge who will be able to explain the headphone jack info this way too. (Which makes way more sense than the defense expert's testimony.)

MOO.

 

[gremlin444]

Okay, so where did the rumor come that she scolded the jury!
And I didn’t think jurors were allowed to discuss the case until both sides rested and they were in the deliberation room together.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

"At 4:07 p.m. court is back in session. Judge Gull starts off by scolding the jury, she says officers informed her of people in the jury talking and says anyone talking will be kicked out."

But they are the only news source I've seen that said that, so I'm pretty sure it was members of the gallery.

 

[shonyakay]

I don’t think they have to prove anything, just raise doubt. IMO

The Jurors are inteligent as we can see from their questions. They don't seem like the type to just be spoonfed information.

Regarding Elridge's testimony what doubt does this raise in your mind?

 

[Tricia]

Our new Websleuths Delphi poll is up.
CLICK HERE TO TAKE THE POLL
Here are the results from yesterday.
At the end of court on 11/05
Guilty and acted alone 81.4%
Guilty but had help 0.9%
Not Guilty 10.6%
I don't know 7.1%

 

[TristanP]

“Cecil was asked if he examined Libby’s phone for water damage. He said it did not. He was asked if dirt was on the phone when it was found. He said he did not know.”

Delphi murders: Expert says headphone jack inserted into Libby’s phone, removed in dead of night

DELPHI, Ind. — A computer analysis expert testified on Tuesday and claimed that her findings revealed that a headphone jack was plugged into Libby German’s phone hours after it stopped moving…

www.wdtn.com

So it didn’t have water damage and he didn’t know about dirt?? Really? Once again LE not looking very much like they did a brilliant investigation imo.

Wow. Thanks for this. I guess he figured the jury would hear that the girls went through the creek, and Abby’s clothes were wet, and they could make an educated guess about whether the phone got wet or not. Also the phone was found under Abby, on the ground, so another educated guess to know if there was any dirt in or on the phone?

So there’s no evidence that the phone was wet or dirty, but these intelligent jurors are supposed to believe this unusual issue is due to water or dirt, and that it can be caused by water or dirt since the State’s expert googled that on a 15 min break.

They’ve had 7 1/2 years to figure this out.

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, Nov. 6th
*Trial continues (Day 17) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Initial bond @ $20M on 10/27/22. On 2/16/23 held with no bond.
Amended charges (on 1/18/24/granted on 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Plead not guilty. Carroll County
*Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer [8/1/24] of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial is over. Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon. Prosecutors rested their case on 10/31/24. Defense began their case on 10/31/24.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency on 10/25/24. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-15 (10/18-11/4/24) reference post #729 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-211.728007/page-37
*11/5/24 Docket update: State prosecutors filed a Motion to Limine against defense expert Stuart Grassian. Grassian was expected to testify about the effects of solitary confinement on an inmate, but the prosecution’s motion is an attempt to limit or prevent evidence, or in this case, a testimony, from the jury. Judge Gull has ruled to allow testimony from defense expert Stuart Grassian during court on Tuesday.
11/5/24 Tuesday, Trial Day 16: Defense witnesses: Betsey Blair [woman who walked down the trail wearing her fitbit, observed BG on the first platform, then turned to continue her walk and passed by Abby & Libby on their way to the bridge]. Stuart Grassian [psychiatrist who specializes in solitary confinement, false memories & false confessions; testified about the effects of solitary confinement on an inmate]. Dr. Erin Warren [who works with firearm & crime scene reconstruction. He detailed how cycled & unfired cartridges may receive markings]. Stacy Eldridge. [Eldridge is an expert in computer information management. She worked for the FBI for nearly 10 years as a forensic examiner & later a senior examiner. She also worked as an instructor on digital evidence]. ISP First Sergeant Chris Cecil. ISP Lt. Brian Bunner.
For more info see post #808 (Day 16 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-211.728007/page-41
Trial continues on Wednesday, 11/6/24 @ 9am.

 

[TristanP]

I would not be voting Guilty because investigators are saying 'trust me.' I'd be going by what I saw during the trial. So far, the prosecution is laying out a logical persuasive case, IMO. Unlike the erratic Defense attempt, imo.

The officer probably didn't answer yes because he felt a trap happening. I think it was going to be a trick question of some kind. So he tried to side step it, imo.

The excuses being made here are really a stretch.

 

[TristanP]

I have always wondered if the paid experts feel embarrassed when they end up not effectively helping the side that paid them a large amount of money.

I’m sure they do, in the instances where that happens. This was not one of those instances though.

The state’s expert had to Google his answer during a court break. Even though he’s had 7.5 years to investigate this.

One of them looked stupid, and it wasn’t the one walking away with $24K in her bank account.

 

[TristanP]

Talking amongst themselves? Talking to someone outside of the jury?

Did she mean talking while evidence was being presented?

 

[TristanP]

I think its clearly from water damage because the girls clothes were wet from crossing the creek and the phone was hidden in their clothing.

It is a known fact that when a phone/battery gets drenched it can stop and start erratically. Stops when wet and can restart when dries a bit. It's not rocket science.

If it’s from water damage and the girls crossed the creek at 2:30ish, why did it keep working for 3 hours?

 

[RexLuther]

Some serious questions to the ISP on the handling of phone evidence. Had it in their possession for 7.5 years yet using google to check on an audio output port in the middle of a high profile murder trial?

The Iphone6 has a wetness indicator that would show if the connectors got wet. Quite coincidental the audio jack was used at the same time of an incoming call at 5.45pm?

Sgt. Cecil changed his statements from the previous findings and called them premature where he said the phone shut down at 10.28pm then came back on at +/- 4.30 am to receive the missing messages? Is that even possible? Was he getting confused over power cycle data and was he aware of the headphone notification data and decided to dismiss it?
JMO.

 

[MiniMoo]

Wow. Thanks for this. I guess he figured the jury would hear that the girls went through the creek, and Abby’s clothes were wet, and they could make an educated guess about whether the phone got wet or not. Also the phone was found under Abby, on the ground, so another educated guess to know if there was any dirt in or on the phone?

So there’s no evidence that the phone was wet or dirty, but these intelligent jurors are supposed to believe this unusual issue is due to water or dirt, and that it can be caused by water or dirt since the State’s expert googled that on a 15 min break.

They’ve had 7 1/2 years to figure this out.

Let's say the temperature dropped drastically overnight and maybe the conditions were humid enough to impact on the cell phone in some way - even if it wasn't water or dirt.

This still, however, wouldn't explain how a headset was logged in the Knowledge C base or analytical data section.

Still working my way though this as iPhones are beyond me.

JMO MOO JMT

Link: Headphone Jack Insert

 

[TristanP]

Regardless of the phone analysis, the crime scene tells us that’s exactly where the girls were murdered. It’s not like believing one thing or another when it comes to the phone changes anything.

It could change everything.

I want to KNOW the TRUTH. “Educated guesses” and Google searches are not sufficient.