Ablow nails it? JMK and PR

[rashomon]

I don't think neither[sic] parent is guilty, and I have considered only the evidence.

I have considered only the evidence too, but have came to the opposite conclusion. Fibers from John's shirt were found in JB's genital area, and fibers from Patsy's Christmas party jacket were found in the paint tray and on the sticky side of the duct tape which covered JB's mouth. This is very incriminating evidence.
Then there's the idiotic ransom note, and the body left in the home, with ligatures which didn't bind, a bogus garrote, and duct tape placed on the dead child's mouth.
The parents' strange behavior stands out too. Behavior is also circumstantial evidence. Their total non-cooperation with the police right from the beginning just screams that these people had something to hide.
And five days after the murder, they said on TV that the were not angry at the killer and wanted to get on with their life. Enough said.

 

[julianne]

Like it or not....Patsy Ramsey DID NOT fit the psychological profile of someone who would do this.

You can't use Susan Smith as a comparison to Patsy Ramsey. Susan Smith had numerous documented mental health issues over the years.

Timothy McVeigh was NOT an upstanding citizen in the community. He certainly had his own mental health issues and issues of methamphetamine addiction and drug abuse.

The DC Snipers? I don't have enough history on them to debate this....but show me ANYTHING that says they were upstanding citizens in their community. Where was the throng of supporters for them?

Apples and oranges, SuperDave.

 

[julianne]

julianne, I was just wondering.
What makes you post the above? Have you read the autopsy and being an expert can say we have misunderstood it?
In that case please explain what chronic inflammation does mean to you as an expert, and why dr spitz who also is an expert in the field thought otherwise.

Yes, I have read the autopsy report. It does not say that she had old vaginal injuries as a result of abuse because of bedwetting. And as much as you say that there are experts who think this is so, there are just as many who think this is not so.

I'm as much of an expert as you are.

Dottierainbow--Yes, it certainly does get confusing! One thing is for sure, though, any IDI here has to have thick skin (as someone else posted) and it does get frustrating when speculation is repeatedly posted as fact. Time will tell, though, for that I am sure. And it won't be long.

 

[dottierainbow]

Well, Julianne I for one enjoy your posts.
Amy

 

[julianne]

Well, Julianne I for one enjoy your posts.
Amy

Thanks, Amy! That's one so far! Tee Hee :dance: :blowkiss:

 

[tumble]

Yes, I have read the autopsy report. It does not say that she had old vaginal injuries as a result of abuse because of bedwetting. And as much as you say that there are experts who think this is so, there are just as many who think this is not so.

I'm as much of an expert as you are.

Dottierainbow--Yes, it certainly does get confusing! One thing is for sure, though, any IDI here has to have thick skin (as someone else posted) and it does get frustrating when speculation is repeatedly posted as fact. Time will tell, though, for that I am sure. And it won't be long.

I see, you mean there are evidence you just don't believe in them.

I am sure this fact 'chronic inflammation' would be laid down as evidence by a prosecutor if it was an abuse case going on against a pedophile parent woudn't you?

In this case stating there are 'None. Zip. ' evidence is clearly wrong.
Those things are evidence until proven otherwise, and as you say you have reviewed all the evidence it makes me wonder what other evidence you chose to rule out as 'None.Zip.'.

What ARE evidence in your opinon?

 

[BBB167893]

I didn't mean to get angry with you, specifically, julianne. It's just that I've heard that "no parent could do this" BS so many times, I'm ready to scream.

You know, a lot of people say I'm cynical, too quick to believe the worst in people. I say no, I'm just a realist. I truly believed the Ramseys innocent for some time. That honeymoon is over, obviously.

"There is absolutely no evidence to support the statement that JB had old vaginal injuries from abuse over bedwetting. None. Zip."

Okay, you got me. But the fact remains that no less than eight people with impeccable credentials in that field said there were old injuries to her pelvic region. It's the "from what" part I concede.

"And the housekeeper said a LOT of stuff. Doesn't make it so."

Doesn't make it not true, either.

"You can't use Susan Smith as a comparison to Patsy Ramsey. Susan Smith had numerous documented mental health issues over the years."

And everyone with mental problems is a child-killer, right? So that must mean that no one without mental problems could do this? I don't buy it.

"Apples and oranges, SuperDave."

Okay, maybe. But the question was asked. But I can think of PLENTY of times where the IDIs have done the apples and oranges bit, trying to compare this case to other child murders, like Danielle Van Dam and so forth. But those cases bear no resemblance to this one, either! In ALL of those cases, no note was left, the child was taken from the home, the killer didn't camp out for hours on end, the victims were taken to a place the killer felt safe, then dumped. You see where I'm going with this?

Jolynna needs to be heard. That's what I'm saying.

 

[julianne]

I see, you mean there are evidence you just don't believe in them.

I am sure this fact 'chronic inflammation' would be laid down as evidence by a prosecutor if it was an abuse case going on against a pedophile parent woudn't you?

In this case stating there are 'None. Zip. ' evidence is clearly wrong.
Those things are evidence until proven otherwise, and as you say you have reviewed all the evidence it makes me wonder what other evidence you chose to rule out as 'None.Zip.'.

What ARE evidence in your opinon?

YOU don't know anything about this case that isn't already out there, and I don't know anything about this case that isn't already out there. There are MANY experts who refute this "evidence" and even the fact that it is "evidence." You can't deny that. My statement is not "clearly wrong" just because it doesn't support your theory.

 

[BBB167893]

"There are MANY experts who refute this "evidence" and even the fact that it is "evidence."

The only one I know of who said there wasn't evidence of prior abuse was Werner Spitz, and he didn't even say that He was conflicted.

 

[julianne]

I didn't mean to get angry with you, specifically, julianne. It's just that I've heard that "no parent could do this" BS so many times, I'm ready to scream.

You know, a lot of people say I'm cynical, too quick to believe the worst in people. I say no, I'm just a realist. I truly believed the Ramseys innocent for some time. That honeymoon is over, obviously.

"There is absolutely no evidence to support the statement that JB had old vaginal injuries from abuse over bedwetting. None. Zip."

Okay, you got me. But the fact remains that no less than eight people with impeccable credentials in that field said there were old injuries to her pelvic region. It's the "from what" part I concede.

"And the housekeeper said a LOT of stuff. Doesn't make it so."

Doesn't make it not true, either.

"You can't use Susan Smith as a comparison to Patsy Ramsey. Susan Smith had numerous documented mental health issues over the years."

And everyone with mental problems is a child-killer, right? So that must mean that no one without mental problems could do this? I don't buy it.

"Apples and oranges, SuperDave."

Okay, maybe. But the question was asked. But I can think of PLENTY of times where the IDIs have done the apples and oranges bit, trying to compare this case to other child murders, like Danielle Van Dam and so forth. But those cases bear no resemblance to this one, either! In ALL of those cases, no note was left, the child was taken from the home, the killer didn't camp out for hours on end, the victims were taken to a place the killer felt safe, then dumped. You see where I'm going with this?

Jolynna needs to be heard. That's what I'm saying.

Thank you for your post. I didn't think you were angry with me at all---I love your posts SuperDave, and appreciate your willingness to debate instead of attack.

I didn't post that "no mother could do this". Lord knows, there are sick people out there, mothers included, and I am fully aware that some mothers should've never had the gift of having kids.

There are just as many experts with impeccable credentials that state otherwise.

Re: The housekeeper. ABSOLUTELY. Just because she said something doesn't make it so, and it doesn't make it not so.

Of course every one with mental problems are NOT child-killers. No way. Many people with documented mental health issues would NEVER lay a finger on a child, or anyone else for that matter. However, I do say that the person who did this DID have mental problems. How could they have not? You have to be warped in the head to be able to do this to anyone, let alone a child.

I can't think of one other case that I could compare this to. There is no comparison.

Everyone needs to be heard.:blowkiss:

 

[tumble]

YOU don't know anything about this case that isn't already out there, and I don't know anything about this case that isn't already out there. There are MANY experts who refute this "evidence" and even the fact that it is "evidence." You can't deny that. My statement is not "clearly wrong" just because it doesn't support your theory.

So what is evidence if not the autopsy report?

 

[julianne]

julianne, I was just wondering.
What makes you post the above? Have you read the autopsy and being an expert can say we have misunderstood it?
In that case please explain what chronic inflammation does mean to you as an expert, and why dr spitz who also is an expert in the field thought otherwise.

SuperDave posted:
The only one I know of who said there wasn't evidence of prior abuse was Werner Spitz, and he didn't even say that He was conflicted.


Exactly what I mean by refuting the so-called "evidence". Just today two posts say completely different things about the conclusions Werner Spitz arrived at.

 

[BBB167893]

"I didn't think you were angry with me at all---I love your posts SuperDave, and appreciate your willingness to debate instead of attack."

It's hard sometimes, but there's no point in getting personal. Nothing comes of it.

"However, I do say that the person who did this DID have mental problems. How could they have not? You have to be warped in the head to be able to do this to anyone, let alone a child."

That's subjective. There's an old saying: if you can prove I did it, you need not prove I COULD have done it.

"Exactly what I mean by refuting the so-called "evidence". Just today two posts say completely different things about the conclusions Werner Spitz arrived at."

I can furnish the actual report if you like.

 

[tumble]

SuperDave posted:
The only one I know of who said there wasn't evidence of prior abuse was Werner Spitz, and he didn't even say that He was conflicted.


Exactly what I mean by refuting the so-called "evidence". Just today two posts say completely different things about the conclusions Werner Spitz arrived at.

What exactly is conflicting?

I think you are missing the point.
I am wondering why you would like to have the autopsy report dismissed as not evidence?

 

[julianne]

What exactly is conflicting?

I think you are missing the point.
I am wondering why you would like to have the autopsy report dismissed as not evidence?

Sorry, Tumble, I don't think I am missing the point. You may think that, and that's your right.

I post my opinion that is contrast to your opinion and it obviously doesn't sit well with you.

tumble posted:
Have you read the autopsy and being an expert can say we have misunderstood it?
In that case please explain what chronic inflammation does mean to you as an expert

I did not state or infer that I was an expert. Why do I have to be an "expert" to state my opinion if it contrasts with your opinion? Sorry, but I am no "expert"...I'm just someone interested in this case who wants justice for JonBenet. Nothing more. I believe that EVERYONE has a right to post their own feelings on this case, but that feeling doesn't seem to be echoed by all.

I'm sorry for posting my "non-expert" opinions here.....I'll take my posts elsewhere. You have yourself a great day.

 

[dottierainbow]

Julianne don't go. You have every right to be here just as much as the others. They aren't experts either.
Amy

Sorry, Tumble, I don't think I am missing the point. You may think that, and that's your right.

I post my opinion that is contrast to your opinion and it obviously doesn't sit well with you.

tumble posted:
Have you read the autopsy and being an expert can say we have misunderstood it?
In that case please explain what chronic inflammation does mean to you as an expert

I did not state or infer that I was an expert. Why do I have to be an "expert" to state my opinion if it contrasts with your opinion? Sorry, but I am no "expert"...I'm just someone interested in this case who wants justice for JonBenet. Nothing more. I believe that EVERYONE has a right to post their own feelings on this case, but that feeling doesn't seem to be echoed by all.

I'm sorry for posting my "non-expert" opinions here.....I'll take my posts elsewhere. You have yourself a great day.

 

[tumble]

Sorry, Tumble, I don't think I am missing the point. You may think that, and that's your right.

I post my opinion that is contrast to your opinion and it obviously doesn't sit well with you.

tumble posted:
Have you read the autopsy and being an expert can say we have misunderstood it?
In that case please explain what chronic inflammation does mean to you as an expert

I did not state or infer that I was an expert. Why do I have to be an "expert" to state my opinion if it contrasts with your opinion? Sorry, but I am no "expert"...I'm just someone interested in this case who wants justice for JonBenet. Nothing more. I believe that EVERYONE has a right to post their own feelings on this case, but that feeling doesn't seem to be echoed by all.

I'm sorry for posting my "non-expert" opinions here.....I'll take my posts elsewhere. You have yourself a great day.

What does not sit well with me is dismissing evidence.
Sometimes my posts come of as rude and I appologice.
And thank you for putting that smiley in, I am sure you are a great person

And BTW, I myself am not sure at all that there was any prior sexual abuse. I think the 'chronic inflammation' could have been cause by something else, I just don't know what, and it was that I maybe thought you could help me with.

 

[stonewall]

If there is SO much evidence that Patsy Ramsey killed JonBenet then why wasn't she arrested? Is it safe to assume since Karr WAS arrested that the DA has more evidence on him than they did Patsy? If that's the case, I can't wait to see what they've got on him.

 

[southcitymom]

Before y'all decide I am thinking Patsy did it because of my own life experience, I have to add that right now I am leaning toward Karr doing it because the tone of some of the media (Nancy Grace comes to mind) has changed from shock that the DA would arrest with such flimsy evidence into showing clips of JonBenet with sad music intertwined with pictures of John Karr. And last night Nancy kept playing the sickest of the JK tapes over and over.

I think the media is getting wind of something they can't talk about. At least their attitude toward this case seems to be changing. But, that is the only reason at this point I am leaning in that direction. So far, I do not think anything concrete really points to Karr as the little girl's killer.

Anyway, I pointed out my own life experience because I have seen firsthand how different life can be behind closed doors. That no mother could do ANYTHING like that to her own child is simply not so. And it is no reason to exclude a suspect when the evidence points toward them.

I think the media is milking this for all it's worth because it's a huge story and it's going to go away soon when they discover that Karr was in Georgia the night JBR was murdered.

 

[angelwngs]

I think the media is milking this for all it's worth because it's a huge story and it's going to go away soon when they discover that Karr was in Georgia the night JBR was murdered.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I hope that instead of 'going away' soon, that JMK will remain a chapter which opened up a 'whole new can of worms' in this case. I sincerely think that, if he did nothing more he relit the fire under the media, which in part helped get experts, sleuthers, and the general public not only thinking about this case, but staying up until the wee hours in the morning offering up as much possible evidence, new questions and new answers are they can muster....

Also, I would think that the DA's office would be as other govt. agencies... The more it's in the 'spotlight' the more funding it gets. Media+Money=Action.