Adult Entertainment Industry: Case related

[Aleph]

I completely agree, Justice. I'm positive he courted these girls. Not so sure about Amber. I think it's possible that, due to her heroin addiction, she let her guard down for a large sum of money. But if we look at the case of Melissa, we see that she was offered a large sum of money and was secretive about who she was going to meet. Megan waited until AC had left, and then walked to meet her last client. Why not see him in her room, since this is what the room was booked for? Maureen, we know, had already checked out of her room and was looking for a way back to Connecticut. She's called friends and family, and they weren't able to come get her. Did she perhaps call a client she felt she knew well and trusted? :waitasec:

This makes me think. Is it "normal" to feel more private about some clients than others? What might induce an escort to feel that way? Perhaps a more romantic connection?

 

[Justiceforever]

This makes me think. Is it "normal" to feel more private about some clients than others? What might induce an escort to feel that way? Perhaps a more romantic connection?

The only thing I can think of is that this person "befriended" them. Wanted conversation more than sex? If he seemed interested in her, her dilemmas, her life, and wasn't "like" the others,

I can see the killer maybe getting into her head. Making her feel like he cared, like HE was the one trying to help with no strings attached. He probably made himself very non threatening. Then when he had them in the palm of his hand, he pounced?

Maybe, as you suggested, the women mistook this as romance. I guess it depends on how experienced/inexperienced, or desperate (Not derogatory) (maybe needy is a better term) they were.

For the life of me I can't think of any other reason, other than a false sense of security ie...I got my big girl panties on, I can handle this attitude, that they ignored basic safety. Maybe this was the case, but it seems the killer would need to be sure that they were comfortable ( had their guards down)
How would he know they were wearing their big girl panties that day, if he didn't have some familiarity with them.
Can you Moon?

 

[nugzter]

Does anyone know the price range of the GB4? There reason I ask is to try to gague their vulnerabality to a "suggar Daddy" who could gain their trust. Then I ask our local ex-ladies how realistic is it that a killer John would trust a girl of lower price range compared to a girl of a higher price range? Is it based on the rates of the girls? Drugs? Power? Dare I say Love? Maybe jealousy as a motive.......

 

[Justiceforever]

Does anyone know the price range of the GB4? There reason I ask is to try to gague their vulnerabality to a "suggar Daddy" who could gain their trust. Then I ask our local ex-ladies how realistic is it that a killer John would trust a girl of lower price range compared to a girl of a higher price range? Is it based on the rates of the girls? Drugs? Power? Dare I say Love? Maybe jealousy as a motive.......

I thought I read that SG was charging @$250 an hour. I don't know what that included. That can be a flat rate or a basic rate NOT including tip. Tip is something worked out be tween the client and the provider, for services above the basic rate. Say for instance, I offer partial nudity and a neck and shoulder rub at a basic rate of $150 an hour anything beyond that (full nudity) ( full body rib) (role playing) (masterbation show) (whatever) is a tip.

Some however, have a flat rate which includes all. It really depends on how they conduct their business. Surely market rate is different depending on location and competition.

I would be very interested in knowing what the quid pro quo is in New York.

 

[Justiceforever]

Does anyone know the price range of the GB4? There reason I ask is to try to gague their vulnerabality to a "suggar Daddy" who could gain their trust. Then I ask our local ex-ladies how realistic is it that a killer John would trust a girl of lower price range compared to a girl of a higher price range? Is it based on the rates of the girls? Drugs? Power? Dare I say Love? Maybe jealousy as a motive.......

Alot of women in the business aspire to have a sugar daddy. This never appealed to me because it felt "wrong" to pretend to have feelings for a person when all you want is their money. Seemed more on the up and up to keep it real. I know Alot of women in the business however that were looking for just that.

As far as vulnerability based on price. I think for sure, the lower you set your prices, the more vulnerable you appear to be! I think if a provider is willing to negotiate their prices then they appear to be willing to negotiate what they will do for the money. They seem "needy" "vulnerable" more so than someone who's prices are set high and they are not willing to comprimise.

 

[Justiceforever]

Justiceforever-
Thank you for sharing your past with us.
I don't think any less of you. The sex trade and like businesses exist, have always existed, and will always exist. Pretending that the people who work in these businesses aren't "real" people or shaming them into never telling their stories is a disservice to the people who do such work, investigations like these, and to society. It makes sex workers seem disposable.

In fact, I admire your courage to tell complete strangers online about your experiences. Your honesty helps fill in the gaps about the culture (of the sex trade) in which the victims were working.

I admire your bravery & honesty.

Hi Ktgirl! Good to see you on the LISK forum! Lol...For a second I thought...hmm....did I post this in the Jennings thread? :what: Thank you for your kind words!

 

[LINative13]

Whether you pay a hooker for sex directly. Or if you are trying to get into a non hooker womans pants but she wont let you unless you spend money on her. So you pay for it indirectly. Same difference.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Do all clients you get through CL use monger phones? Do they keep these phones for a period of time? In other words, if you see a regular client many times, are you able to recognize from the phone number that it's your regular calling?

 

[mcme]

Whether you pay a hooker for sex directly. Or if you are trying to get into a non hooker womans pants but she wont let you unless you spend money on her. So you pay for it indirectly. Same difference.

You're not paying for the sex. You're paying for them to leave without taking half your stuff.

 

[nugzter]

Alot of women in the business aspire to have a sugar daddy. This never appealed to me because it felt "wrong" to pretend to have feelings for a person when all you want is their money. Seemed more on the up and up to keep it real. I know Alot of women in the business however that were looking for just that.

As far as vulnerability based on price. I think for sure, the lower you set your prices, the more vulnerable you appear to be! I think if a provider is willing to negotiate their prices then they appear to be willing to negotiate what they will do for the money. They seem "needy" "vulnerable" more so than someone who's prices are set high and they are not willing to comprimise.

ok, I understand that from the girls point of view.But what I was getting at was the Johns point of view. If we do indeed have a homicidal John. He would also have trust issues. He is the one who has to know for sure that he is in like Flyn, before he can kill them. Otherwise, he is a one time customer like Ridgeway ect...... If he was out for the cheap girls, he would most likely not be a repeat customer. If they were more high price, the suggar dadday role could be more prevelant. Thus the question, and let us leave SG out of the equation. What were the going rates plus Tips, ect for the GB4? This has to an important question....

 

[nugzter]

This is where I disagree from PB. I believe in the homacidal John theory. The LISK is a Homacidal "something". Pimp, doubt it. Friend or family member, doubt it also. I would like to see a plausible scenerio whthout a homicidal John.

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

You got me thinking. I hope I can word this so it makes sense. Not including SG, none of the victims had EFFECTIVE security measures in place at the time of their deaths. Unless you assume that the two male MV victims were connected to the female victims found in the same vicinity and, had to be killed, as a means to an end.

How did the killer/s KNOW this? He/they HAD to have spent time talking to the victims ie.. many phone conversations, a few "dates". IMO he let them know he was uncomfortable with the idea of a "pimp" or "service" "driver". He wanted an independent provider.

For whatever reason, the women took the chance OR just didn't have reliable, dependable, effective security and felt safe (or desperate, to pay the rent, buy drugs, whatever ) enough to go with him despite this.

I know this has been discussed before, however I am now CONVINCED that the killer took the time (stalked) his victims to assure that he wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of a third party.

No doubt about it.

I am without a doubt convinced that he likes to stalk his prey. There is nothing in my mind that makes me think other wise. :banghead:

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

I completely agree, Justice. I'm positive he courted these girls. Not so sure about Amber. I think it's possible that, due to her heroin addiction, she let her guard down for a large sum of money. But if we look at the case of Melissa, we see that she was offered a large sum of money and was secretive about who she was going to meet. Megan waited until AC had left, and then walked to meet her last client. Why not see him in her room, since this is what the room was booked for? Maureen, we know, had already checked out of her room and was looking for a way back to Connecticut. She's called friends and family, and they weren't able to come get her. Did she perhaps call a client she felt she knew well and trusted? :waitasec:

WOW. You just gave me chills because I was just about to say that Amber I think was the only one he DIDN'T stalk, simply because he saw how easy of a target she would be. If you have ever seen someone doped up for yourself in real life you know they are seriously defenseless, if they can even keep their eyes open. It's really sad! :tears::tears:

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

This makes me think. Is it "normal" to feel more private about some clients than others? What might induce an escort to feel that way? Perhaps a more romantic connection?

Privacy usually stems from marriage or relationships.

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

The only thing I can think of is that this person "befriended" them. Wanted conversation more than sex? If he seemed interested in her, her dilemmas, her life, and wasn't "like" the others,

I can see the killer maybe getting into her head. Making her feel like he cared, like HE was the one trying to help with no strings attached. He probably made himself very non threatening. Then when he had them in the palm of his hand, he pounced?

Maybe, as you suggested, the women mistook this as romance. I guess it depends on how experienced/inexperienced, or desperate (Not derogatory) (maybe needy is a better term) they were.

For the life of me I can't think of any other reason, other than a false sense of security ie...I got my big girl panties on, I can handle this attitude, that they ignored basic safety. Maybe this was the case, but it seems the killer would need to be sure that they were comfortable ( had their guards down)
How would he know they were wearing their big girl panties that day, if he didn't have some familiarity with them.
Can you Moon?

He wines and dines then, makes them feel like they can be buddies, he'll take her to nice dinners, and she'll get paid on top of it, AND that is how I think he gets them to let their guard down. He comes across as the person who is going to help them the most.

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

Do all clients you get through CL use monger phones? Do they keep these phones for a period of time? In other words, if you see a regular client many times, are you able to recognize from the phone number that it's your regular calling?

I usually had customers with legitimate phones. No throw aways. You know, iPhones, Andriods, nothing that would be a "Mickey Mouse" phone...

(Oh that LISK is such a prick. Excuse my mouth....)

 

[bessie]

I'm guessing this thread is a first for WS. I look forward to hearing your insights. Thank you, ladies.

 

[Justiceforever]

ok, I understand that from the girls point of view.But what I was getting at was the Johns point of view. If we do indeed have a homicidal John. He would also have trust issues. He is the one who has to know for sure that he is in like Flyn, before he can kill them. Otherwise, he is a one time customer like Ridgeway ect...... If he was out for the cheap girls, he would most likely not be a repeat customer. If they were more high price, the suggar dadday role could be more prevelant. Thus the question, and let us leave SG out of the equation. What were the going rates plus Tips, ect for the GB4? This has to an important question....

I think that is a very important question. Maybe Moon can tell us the AVERAGE going rate and what that includes in NY. Wherever you go you still have to keep your rates competitive, so it might give us an idea of what the GB4 charged on CL.

I'm not sure what you are saying/ asking however @ the other thing. Could you ask/say it in a different way? Sometimes I'm a little slow

 

[Justiceforever]

This makes me think. Is it "normal" to feel more private about some clients than others? What might induce an escort to feel that way? Perhaps a more romantic connection?

I suppose you might open up (if that's what you mean by private) about yourself to a client who is interested, talking is a great way to pass the time, and get paid for a second hour. "OOPS your hours up! Imagine that!"

 

[Tugela]

You got me thinking. I hope I can word this so it makes sense. Not including SG, none of the victims had EFFECTIVE security measures in place at the time of their deaths. Unless you assume that the two male MV victims were connected to the female victims found in the same vicinity and, had to be killed, as a means to an end.

How did the killer/s KNOW this? He/they HAD to have spent time talking to the victims ie.. many phone conversations, a few "dates". IMO he let them know he was uncomfortable with the idea of a "pimp" or "service" "driver". He wanted an independent provider.

For whatever reason, the women took the chance OR just didn't have reliable, dependable, effective security and felt safe (or desperate, to pay the rent, buy drugs, whatever ) enough to go with him despite this.

I know this has been discussed before, however I am now CONVINCED that the killer took the time (stalked) his victims to assure that he wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of a third party.

No doubt about it.

I mentioned this before, but in my opinion he arranged to meet them on neutral ground as a "security" precaution. Some clients do this because they are afraid of discovery or they want to hide their tracks from SOs. After they meet up with the girl they go off to some other destination to do the deed.

This is very dangerous for the girl because she makes herself vulnerable. Firstly, if something goes wrong there is no way for anyone to find out who she met or where she actually went. And secondly, meeting like that will guarentee to the cleint there is no pimp/driver around, which means she has no security or protection. So if he has bad intentions she is in trouble. In my city there is a guy who does exactly that and he is notorious on the boards, all the ladies are warned about him but still periodically new and inexperienced girls encounter him. The police know about him as well but can't do anything about it until he does something serious, not just scaring the hell out of the girls or throwing them out of the car in the middle of nowhere.

I think something very similar happened to these girls. They got a call out like that, and if they accepted, he knew they had no backup and he had them where he wanted. They would have been lambs to the slaughter. There was no stalking IMO, just his MO lends itself to be very hard for LE to catch him. His tracks are carefully covered and probably he will never be caught unless he makes a stupid mistake. More girls are going to die, only their bodies are not going to be dumped at GB.