Found Deceased AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 #3

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  • #881
That's still a lot more description to work with than "heavy set" and "black." When they say heavy set, do they mean short and obese, tall and obese, short and very stocky, tall and very stocky? Height in relation to weight? Approximate age? Etc.

Exactly. There is no way they can just go around and pull over every “heavy set black male”. There’s just no way, moo. There has to be more to the description. Age, height, weight, etc. has not been mentioned here.

*again, IF this account is true.
 
  • #882
That's still a lot more description to work with than "heavy set" and "black." When they say heavy set, do they mean short and obese, tall and obese, short and very stocky, tall and very stocky? Height in relation to weight? Approximate age? Etc.

Excellent questions, I agree.

I wonder why there are no answers emanating from any witnesses.

Also too why are there are no composite drawings being released of those men? Which one would expect if LE believed there were murderers on the loose.

I still don't believe those men exist. I will eat a big plate of crow if it turns out they do. Figuratively speaking, of course.
 
  • #883
  • #884
@Angleterre

Discussing autopsies today and came across information specific to this case re. Jefferson County, Alabama that may be of interest to you re. positive identification of decedent.

Why is the Coroner/Medical Examiner’s Office involved?

Pursuant to State of Alabama Code 45-37-60 (Act 79-454,p.739, §1-10), the Jefferson County Coroner/Medical Examiner’s Office is responsible for investigating all sudden and unexpected deaths occurring in Jefferson County,Alabama.

Is it necessary for family to come to the Coroner/ME’s Office to identify the deceased?

No. In most cases visual identification is obtained by investigators at the location of death. In some cases though, positive identification may have to be obtained by one of the following forensic processes: fingerprint, dental, or x-ray comparison, medical implants or devices, DNA, or anthropology.

Family Information Brochures and FAQs - Jefferson County, Alabama
 
  • #885
So a few MOO thoughts on what has led me to where I currently stand on what happened to PH:

1) We are not privy to cell phone data but LE is surely aware of PH’s phone location when the “trouble” text was made. And, in all likelihood, multiple times that day and evening. If it’s a single ping, it defines a radius on the tower. But if the phone is in motion and negotiating the best tower to use, that radius becomes a line. I doubt PH was radio-silent, whatever she was up to. This means everything and is probably the reason LE is not asking for help publicly.

2) Although the text was “unlike her” according to her brother, I believe she sent it only because it doesn’t make sense for anyone else to have done it. LE surely knows if where it was sent from and if any other phones were in the vicinity around the time the message was sent. And if so, they know who those phones belong to by now. If she was with friends, their phones would likely have been on too. If she was with people who meant to do her harm, though, their phones might be off. Either way, it’s telling. They know her phone’s movements for that day.

3) PH allegedly got a ride to the Tin Cup with a work friend at some point that day or evening. The story we’ve heard is that PH left her car at the friend’s house. I think we tend to picture it in a driveway or at the curb in front of the house — someplace obvious. But it could conceivably have been in an apartment parking lot, around the block, or some other less than obvious location. For now, I’m willing to believe the work friend didn’t realize PH hadn’t got her car (or hadn’t gone home herself), assumed PH had gotten home ok, and truly didn’t see the “trouble” text until the next day.

4) I believe that PH did in fact leave the Tin Cup with people she knew for a “better party”, either at a bar down the street, or someplace else, with the people she left with promising her a ride back to the TC or to her car at the end of the evening. Given the seemingly poor camera coverage she may have even come and gone unnoticed multiple times for smoke breaks or to talk to someone if the music was too loud or something. She may not have even been “with” the people she walked out with. (This happened all the time in my 20’s. It was no big deal back then. As a group of 10 or 12, we all looked out for each other and, over time, different cliques would even end up in different bars. At the end of the night you never knew who you’d be riding with. And sometimes where you’d end up sleeping.)

5) Ultimately, though, I think she found herself partying with friends of friends and maybe, in the end, total strangers. She knew the situation had gotten sketchy, her hinky-meter was in good working order, and she texted the work friend. But it was already too late at that point.

I originally believed she probably died of an overdose among friends. But I changed my mind when her body was discovered. Whoever she was with when she died, they weren’t friends. Maybe she did overdose, a stranger among strangers, and they took her valuables and hid her body. Or maybe she was the victim of a violent crime. Regardless, she was vulnerable and it’s a tragedy either way.

I’ve had two nephews in recovery, one didn’t make it and is now a stat in the fentanyl epidemic. The other did 8 years in prison for burglary and grand larceny. He’s been out for 18 months now and so far so good. But the stigma of recovery is real. He in his mid 30’s, has no friends, lives with his sister’s family, holds a job, pays his bills and child support. That’s his life. Clean people aren’t interested in socializing with him, he can’t drink or go to bars, and he can’t risk socializing with the previous crowd. He says one of the easiest places to get drugs is in the parking lot of a twelve-step meeting so you have to be hyper on-guard there as well.

If PH was fresh out of a detox (and by fresh I mean “not years”), I worry that she seems to have had as many people to hang out with as she did. It tells me they were either unaware of her struggle, didn’t care about her, or perhaps even enabled it. Or worse.

I also find it revealing that her family seems to be so accepting of her fate. It tells me that, directly or indirectly, they believe the challenges she endured played a key role in whatever happened to her.

ETA: All of the above, from beginning to end, is MOO and purely speculation since that’s almost all we have available to us at the moment. No doubt we will have answers soon.
 
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  • #886
  • #887
Maybe it's just me.
But I hate these theories that PH died because she'd started using again.
If that's confirmed then hell yeah but since it hasn't been AFAIK, it just feels like cruel victim blaming to me.
 
  • #888
Maybe it's just me.
But I hate these theories that PH died because she'd started using again.
If that's confirmed then hell yeah but since it hasn't been AFAIK, it just feels like cruel victim blaming to me.

Statistically, it is a good bet that she may have slipped up. It doesn't mean she deserved to die. But there is nothing wrong with considering the possibility, that she relapsed, or at least was tempted. IMO.

If she was truly serious about her sobriety on that night, she probably wouldn't have gone to a bar yet. Or if so, could have gone with a sober friend that could help her out.

But if it is true that she went off on her own with 2 guys, and didn't tell any of her friends where she was going, then I think that getting high was a likely motive for that decision. JMO

I could be wrong. I could be way off. But if I just look at the circumstances as they are being described, then it appears that she may have wanted to make some kind of drug connection, even if it was just to go smoke a bowl in the parking lot.
 
  • #889
Maybe it's just me.
But I hate these theories that PH died because she'd started using again.
If that's confirmed then hell yeah but since it hasn't been AFAIK, it just feels like cruel victim blaming to me.

It's not victim blaming. It remains a possibility, though. Lots of nice people die from overdosing. It's just so sad. I don't lean in the OD direction but I would rather it turn out that way than any of the other possibilities.
 
  • #890
I actually feel like this statement says a lot about what LE knows at this point. It almost sounds as if someone has told them "what happened" and LE is just wanting to confirm what they told them. At that point then it will be up to LE to decide that "someone" was either, NOT RESPONSIBLE in any way for the death of PH, or that "someone" WAS RESPONSIBLE for the death of PH in some way.

Even if they decide that "someone" is not responsible for her death, I think it will be highly likely that some type of charges such as "abuse of a corpse" to be filed. It could also be possible that some sort of aiding or some other type charge could happen.

Since the police showed very little urgency, I feel like they've known all along that something had already happened and it was just getting the pieces to fall into place.

What gave you the impression police showed very little urgency? I never got that impression. I felt that they were on top of this from day 1 and Appears a lot was being done behind the scenes and at vest.
I also think that if this was some kind of accident they would have already arrested the person(s) who tampered with a corpse. But I have a hunch the discovery of the body (perhaps position and unclothed) indicated to them that a homicide may have occurred and they r waiting for confirmation to make the appropriate arrest charges. I do believe they r waiting on DNA evidence vs tox. But that’s JMO
 
  • #891
It's not victim blaming. It remains a possibility, though. Lots of nice people die from overdosing. It's just so sad. I don't lean in the OD direction but I would rather it turn out that way than any of the other possibilities.
Yep sadly many do. And yet how many end up in shallow graves? I wonder...
 
  • #892
I actually feel like this statement says a lot about what LE knows at this point. It almost sounds as if someone has told them "what happened" and LE is just wanting to confirm what they told them. At that point then it will be up to LE to decide that "someone" was either, NOT RESPONSIBLE in any way for the death of PH, or that "someone" WAS RESPONSIBLE for the death of PH in some way.

Even if they decide that "someone" is not responsible for her death, I think it will be highly likely that some type of charges such as "abuse of a corpse" to be filed. It could also be possible that some sort of aiding or some other type charge could happen.

Since the police showed very little urgency, I feel like they've known all along that something had already happened and it was just getting the pieces to fall into place.
To add to my post above. Aniah Blanchard, Cupcake, and Heidi Brussard were all discovered right about 2 weeks from disappearance. All homicides.
Savannah Spurlock it took them 6 months to find her. Heather Elvis never found. Both of those 2 ladies were initially have thought to have purposely gone MIA.
So in this case I would say LE did a damn good job of finding Paighton urgently particularly if the speculation was she caused her own death. MOO
 
  • #893
Yep sadly many do. And yet how many end up in shallow graves? I wonder...

Probably a lot more end up in shallow graves than one might think - just look at all the missing persons stats.

My opinion
 
  • #894
Probably a lot more end up in shallow graves than one might think - just look at all the missing persons stats.

My opinion
There is absolutely no way of knowing how many of those missing people we’re heroin addicts so I was referring to the O/P’a post of the nice people we do hear about OD’ing from heroin. Of all those (and there’s a lot since there is currently an epidemic in many areas) how many end up in shallow graves?

ETA: Sadly, the truth is Paighton wouldn’t have been a high profile news story we r discussing here on WS if LE suspected she was in danger from no one but herself, and just another addict who OD’d. That’s the sad truth. IMO
 
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  • #895
Do we have independent confirmation that Paighton actually called her mom from work three times a day every day? Because I'm pretty dubious of that, likewise that she's "always very cautious". It's understandable to want to exalt a lost loved one in the media but I like to think this forum gravitates to reality.
Not sure if anyone has already provided this, but here is the link.
The Chilling Last Text This Alabama Woman Sent Before Disappearing Over a Week Ago
 
  • #896
If she was truly serious about her sobriety on that night, she probably wouldn't have gone to a bar

Truer words could not be spoken. I know a guy who's got 48 years of sobriety, another with 32, a lady with 50, a fellow with 27, dozens of others with YEARS, of sobriety, and they don't go to bars.

Before lambasting my post, know that it is put out there for those in recovery that wish to 'tease the disease'.
 
  • #897
There is absolutely no way of knowing how many of those missing people we’re heroin addicts so I was referring to the O/P’a post of the nice people we do hear about OD’ing from heroin. Of all those (and there’s a lot since there is currently an epidemic in many areas) how many end up in shallow graves?

ETA: Sadly, the truth is Paighton wouldn’t have been a high profile news story we r discussing here on WS if LE suspected she was in danger from no one but herself, and just another addict who OD’d. That’s the sad truth. IMO

I honestly don't know what LE suspects, I just know all the stories I've heard from addicts and the funerals I've attended.
 
  • #898
MOO

Either that co-worker is flat out lying, which would present a problem, OR, that coworker is speaking truth.

Not sure where I stand, but tend towards she was speaking the truth.

Not victim shaming, hate murder, hate rape, hate injustice, hate addiction.

If drugs/alcohol were NOT involved in this mess I'd be flat out amazed.
 
  • #899
Truer words could not be spoken. I know a guy who's got 48 years of sobriety, another with 32, a lady with 50, a fellow with 27, dozens of others with YEARS, of sobriety, and they don't go to bars.

Before lambasting my post, know that it is put out there for those in recovery that wish to 'tease the disease'.
Both of those posts are rather big leaps of judgment don’t u think? Have u seen PH’s instagram pics? Not one shows her partying. Not one with a cocktail in her hand. My father in law is a recovering alcoholic 20+ years and he frequently has put himself in places and around people who are drinking. The fact that she may have been at a bar to see a band, A place where I would assume people are not shooting up heroin , gives absolutely no indication she was not serious about her sobriety. The very public and revealing ad she did for her rehab center tho does very much speak to the seriousness of her sobriety. She’s not here to speak or defend herself so let’s not make assumptions or judgments to one’s sobriety. Unless you happen to be someone who personally knows PH and have been witness to her lack of seriousness. JMO
 
  • #900
Truer words could not be spoken. I know a guy who's got 48 years of sobriety, another with 32, a lady with 50, a fellow with 27, dozens of others with YEARS, of sobriety, and they don't go to bars.

Before lambasting my post, know that it is put out there for those in recovery that wish to 'tease the disease'.
I think you will be eating your words when the autopsy comes out. I highly doubt that there will be drugs in her system

Simple fact, it is not a crime for someone to overdose at your house. If it happens, do you call 911 or grab a shovel? Its easy to take the fact that she once had issues, and try to blame her death on that, but it is also lazy.

<modsnip>

The people involved in this aren't very bright. The only reason arrests haven't been made is because there are several people involved, and LE wants evidence on ALL those people before they arrest any of them.

Simple fact #2, somebody told LE where that body was. That person had to be one of the people involved. I believe they know the entire story and are working on evidence to prove it.

All MOO
 
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