Found Deceased AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 #4

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Ok. I realize how ridiculous this is going to sound, and maybe it’s because I have lots of friends in recovery and I really want to give Paighton the benefit of the doubt until told otherwise. If I’m not supposed to mention this, I apologize, but I saw several mentions of a nurse in the previous threads. I have not been able to find that information anywhere else, but the thought did cross my mind: What if PH was given something like phenobarbital that is very hard to detect?
I know that this post will probably make most of you roll your eyes or laugh, and again, I am sorry if I mentioned something that was off limits. I just cannot seem to get the thought out of my head!
 
rickcross said:
I kept the feed on after the body was found. Just one car remained on site. Maybe they came back the next day? I don't know.
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January 06, 2020 01:51 PM

That is mentioned in this article, a search warrant for the home.

“Right now we have a lot more questions than answers,” Chief Deputy David Agee of the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office said, the outlet reports, “but we hope to have those answers real soon. We’re gonna work hard and we’re going to find out what happened.”

Authorities have received a search warrant for the home but no other information has been released."

Mom Pays Tribute to Ala. Woman Found Dead Weeks After Leaving Bar and Texting ‘I Feel in Trouble’
 
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Moonracer said:
Gosh sorry to post 3 in a row, but as to the case, I feel a homicide is more likely than any other scenario, MOO of course.

Just my opinion that if someone OD'd, and someone was "concerned" they wouldn't wrap someone up and put them in a shallow grave, and then not say anything day after day after day, but would have called 911 anonymously as soon as they were able. I could see covering up the face of the (possibly) deceased, but the shallow grave for an OD victim and wrapped up? Nope.

I'm thinking homicide. JMO
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I just want to clarify that “homicide” isn’t just murder. In AL it includes murder, manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide.

That would include giving someone a drug that caused them to accidentally die.

So when posters are saying they believe this was homicide, that’s almost certainly true because it’s such a broad definition:

(a) As used in Article 1 and Article 2, the following terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them by this section:

(1) CRIMINAL HOMICIDE.  Murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

(2) HOMICIDE.  A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or with criminal negligence causes the death of another person.
Alabama Code Title 13A. Criminal Code § 13A-6-1 | FindLaw
 
evilwise said:
When a person dies their metabolism stops, their kidneys and liver cease to function. Toxins remain until the process of decomposition breaks them down i.e. a long, long time. Months, years, decades, centuries depending on the environment.
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Aurea said:
Strictly my opinion only but I live in Birmingham and know the area where she was buried. Someone knew. Forensics can't detect drugs after 14 days. That's when they got tip
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[bbm]

ummmm can you each post a link cause your posts are polar opposite
 
Aurea said:
Like I said before, drugs in decomposition. Horrible thought but here we are. I studied it but y'all know better, yes?
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LE gets a search warrant for the home, including inside, outside etc. it’s a matter of legality for future use. They could have searched outside with probable cause. For that matter, the house as well. They were looking for a missing person. The warrant secures the evidence to make sure its admissible in court.
 
Moonracer said:
Off-Topic but I feel important: I beg you to repost this comment whenever you can, in the comments on news stories of addiction or overdose. Your comment could save lives! MOO.
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I try to share this as much as possible. I will, and feel free to cut and paste to your hearts content. The old saying about birds of feather, stands true in both directions.
 
Synergizer Bunny said:
This is my best speculation, too. I learned something on Dr. Phil, of all shows, that is a good tip for everyone to know, even drug dealers.

If I am not mistaken, I think that Dr. Phil said that anyone can ask a pharmacist for NARCAN. You don't need a prescription. You can just ask for it. So, if you saw someone overdosed on the side of the road, you could potentially save a person's life.

Just think. If PH had overdosed and they did have NARCAN on hand, they could have potentially saved her life.
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Moonracer said:
yes:
Search Results
Featured snippet from the web

In every state, residents can purchase NARCAN ® Nasal Spray directly from a pharmacist under a Statewide Naloxone Standing Order or Collaborative Practice Agreement. Let NARCAN ® Nasal Spray be there to help you. NARCAN ® Nasal Spray is available without a prescription from your doctor at all major pharmacy chains.
how to get narcan ® nasal spray

https://www.narcan.com › patients › how-to-get-narcan
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Question about NARCAN, is it for all overdoses? Such as cocaine, herion, pain meds, etc? I am naive to all of this.
 
Aurea said:
Like I said before, drugs in decomposition. Horrible thought but here we are. I studied it but y'all know better, yes?
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No. But since you’ve been reticent for some reason to divulge what you know and haven’t given any links, you have given us nothing to rely on.

For the rest of us, I found some different things. One, substances that are present in the corpse may not have been ingested and could be due to decomposition and substances that were present may not be detectable or it may be impossible to determine that they caused the death:

“Post-mortem changes render the assumptions of clinical pharmacology largely invalid, and make the interpretation of concentrations measured in post-mortem samples difficult or impossible. Qualitative tests can show the presence of substances that were not present in life, and can fail to detect substances that led to death. Quantitative analysis is subject to error in itself, and because post-mortem concentrations vary in largely unpredictable ways with the site and time of sampling, as a result of the phenomenon of post-mortem redistribution. Consequently, compilations of ‘lethal concentrations’ are misleading.”

Post-mortem clinical pharmacology

This research paper likewise shows the difficulty of determining levels present at death:

Abstract: Multiple interacting factors alter the measured concentration of almost all drugs after death. The ratio of centrally to peripherally collected samples provides an indication of this redistribution. At present, there are no reliable markers from which to accurately predict how much an individual drug has redistributed. Knowledge of antemortem factors is essential for the interpretation of the effects of any measured drug or toxin.

The concentrations of most drugs alter after death as a result of numerous mechanisms. These and other factors identified as changing the concentration of a drug postmortem are presented in Table 1.
[Full text] Interpreting postmortem drug analysis and redistribution in determinin | PLMI

This article appears to state that the amount of opioid in the body may be able to determined. But I think they’re talking about fresh corpses. Someone take a look and tell me. Toxicologic assessments in acute heroin fatalities. - PubMed - NCBI

All in all it looks like the presence of opioids in the body may be able to be detected in hair follicles or in body tissue. Maybe even at the two week mark. But whether this caused death seems to be an impossible determination in a corpse that has decomposed for that long. It’s hard even in corpses where the person died recently.
 
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gitana1 said:
I just want to clarify that “homicide” isn’t just murder. In AL it includes murder, manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide.

That would include giving someone a drug that caused them to accidentally die.

So when posters are saying they believe this was homicide, that’s almost certainly true because it’s such a broad definition:

(a) As used in Article 1 and Article 2, the following terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them by this section:

(1) CRIMINAL HOMICIDE.  Murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

(2) HOMICIDE.  A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or with criminal negligence causes the death of another person.
Alabama Code Title 13A. Criminal Code § 13A-6-1 | FindLaw
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Not being educated in the law, I used the term incorrectly. I'm trying to say someone killed her on purpose, I guess! MOO! I will stay away from terms I don't fully understand in the future!
 
bestill said:
Question about NARCAN, is it for all overdoses? Such as cocaine, herion, pain meds, etc? I am naive to all of this.
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It is for OPIATES and OPIOIDS. It works on them. It won't work on something like a Tylenol overdose, alcohol, Xanax, amphetamine, etc. That's my understanding, but I am not in the medical field, so MOO.
 
Moonracer said:
Not being educated in the law, I used the term incorrectly. I'm trying to say someone killed her on purpose, I guess! MOO! I will stay away from terms I don't fully understand in the future!
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Hey, no problem! Not everyone is a walking legal dictionary. I just had a feeling that’s what you and other posters meant but I wanted to clarify that it’s pretty broad.
 
gitana1 said:
From my experience with clients it can detect drugs up to 90 days in the past but I don’t think it can tell off someone was high within a certain time range?
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Here is my limited, armchair understanding of follicle testing.

What I’m remembering from Forensic Files, etc., is that a strand of hair is examined in sections. These sections correspond to particular time periods. So based on the rate of hair growth, one can estimate when drugs were ingested. I remember learning about this when there was speculation that this was why Britney Spears shaved her head, lol. People also talk about shaving their heads to pass drug tests. So, if they were to do hair follicle testing here, they would be looking at the root area closest to the scalp, as it would be the most recent growth, but the hair wouldn’t have had time to grow so maybe there would be indication in the root itself, or perhaps in a microscopic section near the scalp? Idk. Certainly worth some research. I’ll be sure to share my findings if I learn anything.
 
Ontario Mom said:
Google location history is in fact, logged and extraordinarily accurate. If you have it turned on. Now I'm not saying for certain this is how LE located PH, but I am saying it's a tool LE uses more and more, without ever relying on an interview or verbal tips being phoned in.
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It's like folks don't even read my posts! :)

From a couple of days ago:

How Police Departments Try to Force Google to Hand Over Data on Anyone Near a Crime Scene

Adding:

Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police
 
bestill said:
Question about NARCAN, is it for all overdoses? Such as cocaine, herion, pain meds, etc? I am naive to all of this.
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Nope, just opiates, incl. heroin and opiate-based prescription pain relievers.

A large dose of an opiate depresses heart rate and breathing to such an extent that a user cannot survive without medical help. Narcan is an opioid receptor antagonist medication that can eliminate all signs of opioid intoxication to reverse an opioid overdose. It works by rapidly binding to opioid receptors, preventing opiates from activating them.

But Narcan will only buy the person some time... it wears off in 30 to 90 minutes and the person needs to make it to the hospital emergent otherwise respiratory depression etc. can set in again.
 
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