Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #5

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HG is also the person responsible for supplying the ammo to the site. She is the one that upon purchasing the ammo didn't make certain that there were no live rounds on set. IMVHO

Well, yes. She chose the supplier (her father's friend), and technically should have received the ammo personally and inspected every round.

The DA is right: three had a duty to check that ammo and that common sense and industry safety standards, as well as generally workplace safety standards, were followed. This is negligence.

In other states, involuntary manslaughter is sometimes known as Negligent Homicide.
 
But is there CRIMINAL liability? Certainly there is civil liability, both in private actions and administrative actions.
See this is what I am wondering about. There was so much negligence on the set that caused this tragedy IMO, but that seems to be the responsibility of the production company. To charge the actor criminally might be overreach, and I feel like a jury might very well believe that he didn’t think he pulled the trigger and relied on the people whose jobs are to make sure the prop is safe.
I see this as civil liability, not criminal, and AB as a producer should be held liable civilly, but I am not at all sure about criminally.
I guess we will see, but I see lots of holes as well.
 
Thanks. I would love to hear your opinion on why Billy Wagner won't plea and wants a trial from the Rhoden murder thread, now a trial thread.

But concerning HGR, thanks for pointing out her greater liability and that she probably loaded the gun with the live bullet.

And Alec would be lucky to get to plea to just a misdemeanor rather than be found guilty of a felony that could land him behind bars.
As far as I recall reading, the ammo came from a company which supplied her and a box containing dummy rounds and a few live rounds was recovered from the set. The implication being that, as far as she was aware, they were only dummy rounds supplied to her.

I'm not sure whether it's actually been mentioned as to whether she was the person who physically loaded the gun, though.

Either way, she certainly has some liability but I don't know what that may be in a criminal sense in NM.

Bottom line though is that AB fired the pistol. No one is an any doubt about that. He is an experienced actor and is also experienced in working with firearms. Personally, I wouldn't ever point a firearm at anyone for any reason unless I was protecting life and neither should he have done. I would certainly never do it with "dummy" ammo in it. Even if I had made them myself and then they'd gone from my reloading press direct to the gun I still wouldn't do it - my brain simply wouldn't allow me to do that.
 
See this is what I am wondering about. There was so much negligence on the set that caused this tragedy IMO, but that seems to be the responsibility of the production company. To charge the actor criminally might be overreach, and I feel like a jury might very well believe that he didn’t think he pulled the trigger and relied on the people whose jobs are to make sure the prop is safe.
I see this as civil liability, not criminal, and AB as a producer should be held liable civilly, but I am not at all sure about criminally.
I guess we will see, but I see lots of holes as well.

AB says he didn't pull the trigger, FBI forensics said it can't be shot without pulling trigger.

Convince a jury that the trigger was pulled and it will make AB look like a liar trying to get out of liability.

Could help cause a jury to convict him. It looks to me.
 
As far as I recall reading, the ammo came from a company which supplied her and a box containing dummy rounds and a few live rounds was recovered from the set. The implication being that, as far as she was aware, they were only dummy rounds supplied to her.

I'm not sure whether it's actually been mentioned as to whether she was the person who physically loaded the gun, though.

Either way, she certainly has some liability but I don't know what that may be in a criminal sense in NM.

Bottom line though is that AB fired the pistol. No one is an any doubt about that. He is an experienced actor and is also experienced in working with firearms. Personally, I wouldn't ever point a firearm at anyone for any reason unless I was protecting life and neither should he have done. I would certainly never do it with "dummy" ammo in it. Even if I had made them myself and then they'd gone from my reloading press direct to the gun I still wouldn't do it - my brain simply wouldn't allow me to do that.

AB is so used to guns being safe on set he took it for granted. He probably has always fired guns in his movies just by assuming they are safe when handed to him. I like what George Clooney says:


George Clooney emphasised the importance of gun safety on set and mentioned that every time he is handed a gun on set, he opens and checks it. He also mentioned that he shows it to the person he will be pointing it at on-screen and to the crew too.

He revealed that he follows the protocol because of what happened to Brandon Lee and it is something everyone on set should follow. He mentioned that he hopes Baldwin did so as well, but also said that 'dummies are tricky' because they look like real rounds.

He mentioned that every time he is handed a 'six-gun' or a gun with six cartridges on set, he points it to the ground and must 'squeeze it six times' before his scene. He mentioned it would be 'insane not to' do so.
 
As far as I recall reading, the ammo came from a company which supplied her and a box containing dummy rounds and a few live rounds was recovered from the set. The implication being that, as far as she was aware, they were only dummy rounds supplied to her.

I'm not sure whether it's actually been mentioned as to whether she was the person who physically loaded the gun, though.

Either way, she certainly has some liability but I don't know what that may be in a criminal sense in NM.

Bottom line though is that AB fired the pistol. No one is an any doubt about that. He is an experienced actor and is also experienced in working with firearms. Personally, I wouldn't ever point a firearm at anyone for any reason unless I was protecting life and neither should he have done. I would certainly never do it with "dummy" ammo in it. Even if I had made them myself and then they'd gone from my reloading press direct to the gun I still wouldn't do it - my brain simply wouldn't allow me to do that.
Approximately 11 a.m., Hannah has loaded five dummies. They were clearly dummies,” says Bowles, Gutierrez Reed’s lawyer, adding that his client had shaken every one of them to check. “The sixth round would not go in, so she left it with five. She handed that over to Baldwin. They did a brief thing, and then they broke for lunch.”

At that point, Bowles says the gun went back to Gutierrez Reed, who locked it in the prop truck’s safe. After lunch, around 1 p.m., she went to retrieve it—and fix that empty sixth slot. Dummies are necessary because the ends of the revolver’s cylinder are exposed, and viewers would be able to tell if the chambers were empty. “So she cleans the cylinder and she pulls another round, a different round, out of that box and puts that round into the chamber,” Bowles says. At the same time, he says she was being urgently summoned to set over her radio.

Did she shake that last round to make sure it was a dummy? “Yes,” her attorney says. “She thought it had rattled, but at the same time, people are screaming in her earpiece, ‘Get the gun, get the gun.’ But she thought it had rattled.”

At some point, a real bullet made its way into that gun. So was that last round the one that killed Halyna Hutchins? “We don’t know for sure, because that gun was out of her eyesight and custody for 15 minutes,” Bowles says, referring to when Gutierrez Reed handed the gun over for the rehearsal moments later and left the church. “But if indeed nobody else had access to it, then yes, that would’ve been the round, the live round.”

 
As far as I recall reading, the ammo came from a company which supplied her and a box containing dummy rounds and a few live rounds was recovered from the set. The implication being that, as far as she was aware, they were only dummy rounds supplied to her.

I'm not sure whether it's actually been mentioned as to whether she was the person who physically loaded the gun, though.

Either way, she certainly has some liability but I don't know what that may be in a criminal sense in NM.

Bottom line though is that AB fired the pistol. No one is an any doubt about that. He is an experienced actor and is also experienced in working with firearms. Personally, I wouldn't ever point a firearm at anyone for any reason unless I was protecting life and neither should he have done. I would certainly never do it with "dummy" ammo in it. Even if I had made them myself and then they'd gone from my reloading press direct to the gun I still wouldn't do it - my brain simply wouldn't allow me to do that.
I wouldn’t ever point a gun at anyone either. We own guns, and I also have experience working on sets. For the life of me I do not understand WHY the industry insists on still using actual guns as props. It’s not necessary IMO, and there is just no getting around that a movie set works very differently than real life. The actors absolutely rely on others to make sure safety protocol is followed, and the actor’s job is to act. AB has not handled any of this well and he looks bad. But I also do not believe that he is criminally liable here. As a producer, I think he is liable for the unsafe conditions that led to this tragedy though.
 
But is there CRIMINAL liability? Certainly there is civil liability, both in private actions and administrative actions.
Obviously the prosecutors in this case believe that a crime, involuntary manslaughter, has been committed by AB and HGR. I agree with them. All I know is that AB lied about not pulling the trigger of the gun. That does not help him in any way IMO.

We'll see how this plays out. More plea deals? A trial? JMO.
 
Approximately 11 a.m., Hannah has loaded five dummies. They were clearly dummies,” says Bowles, Gutierrez Reed’s lawyer, adding that his client had shaken every one of them to check. “The sixth round would not go in, so she left it with five. She handed that over to Baldwin. They did a brief thing, and then they broke for lunch.”

At that point, Bowles says the gun went back to Gutierrez Reed, who locked it in the prop truck’s safe. After lunch, around 1 p.m., she went to retrieve it—and fix that empty sixth slot. Dummies are necessary because the ends of the revolver’s cylinder are exposed, and viewers would be able to tell if the chambers were empty. “So she cleans the cylinder and she pulls another round, a different round, out of that box and puts that round into the chamber,” Bowles says. At the same time, he says she was being urgently summoned to set over her radio.

Did she shake that last round to make sure it was a dummy? “Yes,” her attorney says. “She thought it had rattled, but at the same time, people are screaming in her earpiece, ‘Get the gun, get the gun.’ But she thought it had rattled.”

At some point, a real bullet made its way into that gun. So was that last round the one that killed Halyna Hutchins? “We don’t know for sure, because that gun was out of her eyesight and custody for 15 minutes,” Bowles says, referring to when Gutierrez Reed handed the gun over for the rehearsal moments later and left the church. “But if indeed nobody else had access to it, then yes, that would’ve been the round, the live round.”

I want to hear testimony about this whole chain of events -- checking the gun, lunch, the gun's whereabouts, who said what, etc.
 
Approximately 11 a.m., Hannah has loaded five dummies. They were clearly dummies,” says Bowles, Gutierrez Reed’s lawyer, adding that his client had shaken every one of them to check. “The sixth round would not go in, so she left it with five. She handed that over to Baldwin. They did a brief thing, and then they broke for lunch.”

At that point, Bowles says the gun went back to Gutierrez Reed, who locked it in the prop truck’s safe. After lunch, around 1 p.m., she went to retrieve it—and fix that empty sixth slot. Dummies are necessary because the ends of the revolver’s cylinder are exposed, and viewers would be able to tell if the chambers were empty. “So she cleans the cylinder and she pulls another round, a different round, out of that box and puts that round into the chamber,” Bowles says. At the same time, he says she was being urgently summoned to set over her radio.

Did she shake that last round to make sure it was a dummy? “Yes,” her attorney says. “She thought it had rattled, but at the same time, people are screaming in her earpiece, ‘Get the gun, get the gun.’ But she thought it had rattled.”

At some point, a real bullet made its way into that gun. So was that last round the one that killed Halyna Hutchins? “We don’t know for sure, because that gun was out of her eyesight and custody for 15 minutes,” Bowles says, referring to when Gutierrez Reed handed the gun over for the rehearsal moments later and left the church. “But if indeed nobody else had access to it, then yes, that would’ve been the round, the live round.”

Wow I cannot believe that the reason a dummy has to be in the gun is because "viewers would be able to tell if the chambers were empty." They can't fix this with special effects? A different camera angle? IMO it is not worth even a slight amount risk just to make a piece of entertainment.
 
I have to think that the evidence and arguments for criminal culpability for AB in this trial would not be limited to, or determined, solely by what "AB the Actor" did as he handled the gun.

It would seem to me that AB the Producer bore responsibility for creating the set of conditions that led to this horrific death on the set. And while AB the Actor might claim it wasn't "my area of responsibility" to make sure the gun was safe, that shifting of blame to a great degree would only serve to land it right back in his own lap as AB the Producer to have created a safe set of conditions in the first place where people won't get killed.

AB chose to wear multiple hats, and if he was somehow overloaded in handling multiple areas of responsibility, again that's on him. IMO
 
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Wow I cannot believe that the reason a dummy has to be in the gun is because "viewers would be able to tell if the chambers were empty." They can't fix this with special effects? A different camera angle? IMO it is not worth even a slight amount risk just to make a piece of entertainment.
Totally agree. I don’t need a movie gun to be that realistic. It is not like it’s going to make me forget I’m watching a movie.

If I want to hear real guns banging, I can just turn on the local news.
 
Steve Wolf, an armorer, gave an interesting analysis of the case today. Starting at 7:00 below. He said he recommended to the prosecutor that she file charges in this case. He also questioned why AB may have relied on the Assistant Director -- rather than the armorer -- regarding the safety of the gun.
 
This is what I hear: In AB's interview with LE right after the shooting he said that HG-R handed him the gun. Starting at 45:20:

But in AB's interview with Stephanopolous he said Dave Halls handed him the gun. (Quite a bit of stuttering I think --JMO.) At 0:58:
 
The gun was out of HG sight. It’s her job to watch it or lock it with NO ONE else having the key. She is the sole gun keeper, it should never be unattended by her. AB shot the gun…and lied about it thereafter.

I agree with the prosecutors. The set wasn’t maintained safely/properly and the producer was sloppy with keeping things in order.
 
The gun was out of HG sight. It’s her job to watch it or lock it with NO ONE else having the key. She is the sole gun keeper, it should never be unattended by her. AB shot the gun…and lied about it thereafter.

I agree with the prosecutors. The set wasn’t maintained safely/properly and the producer was sloppy with keeping things in order.

And Alec Baldwin is the first person listed as Producer.
 
Does Alec Baldwin have a concealed weapon permit or other governmental-issue permit showing he has been through an approved written and performance test to carry and use firearms?
 
That special AB did, that made him look like the victim, is going to nail him. He made more "mis statements" and "embellishments" during that show...and it is all evidence. Or rather, prosecution gravy train!

Yep! He also underestimated the investigation (proof the gun was shot and shot by him).

Who knows what deal he made with HH husband in the civil case but I’m glad that it didn’t make him feel he couldn’t make the statement that he did today “I don’t believe anyone is above the law”. That probably made AB angry.
 
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