Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #5

[PrairieWind]

I have to say that I do feel sorry for her. She clearly had a very intense, safety critical job to do and wasn't capable. Part of the reason she wasn't capable, I think, is that she had no support or assistants to help her in the role. She was waaaay out of her depth!

There is no way she should have been in sole charge of a firearms-heavy production with her level of experience. In that sense the producers (employers) are to blame because they are hiring unsuitable people and providing inadequate resources for her to do her job.

This is probably an extremely uncool and un-pc thing to say in this day and age but - she was a 24 year old woman working amongst massive male celebrity egos with zero support and probably with little confidence shown in her ability. Yes, she should have had more control and should have been with those guns everywhere they went but that's very easy to say from our detached position. Is it any wonder that this whole sorry situation played out as it did?

That is a pretty rough stance to take. A woman, or a younger person, can't be relied upon to do the job they held themselves out to be able to do? I agree that whoever hired her has some questions to answer. But it could very well be that they felt they needed to hire more women.

 

[PrairieWind]

This was NOT an "old antique gun". It was a brand new, modern rendition made by Pietta in Italy. Made from modern materials on state-of-art CNC machines.

I've used these things for years and, as the FBI says, they simply do not discharge on their own. They like us to say things like "IMO" on here but this is not opinion - it is fact. If they were prone to going off on their own then the ATF would never let them in.

These guns simply cannot discharge unless the trigger is depressed. I'm not saying that AB actually lied about it but he WAS pressing the trigger when that shot was fired. That gun would have had to have been absolutely wrecked internally for it to fire with no trigger pressure. I think even the FBI said they could not get it to fire unintentionally and actually had to treat it so badly they smashed the internal lock-work making it do so.

Keep in mind that the Sig Sauer P320, is the subject of many lawsuits for misfiring. I don't think that is what happened here honestly, but modern firearms can and do discharge in ways not intended. Will the Defense have the option to test the weapon? Apparently not now. Anticipate a Defense motion to exclude any testimony regarding the testing of the firearm in question.

 

[katydid23]

That is a pretty rough stance to take. A woman, or a younger person, can't be relied upon to do the job they held themselves out to be able to do? I agree that whoever hired her has some questions to answer. But it could very well be that they felt they needed to hire more women.

Having worked in and been around the production business for many years, I think the main reason they hired her was because they knew they could boss her around and so they'd be able to over ride some of the expensive safety protocols and slash their budget. She was inexperienced and had no clout to push back against producers and the AD.

An experienced armourer would have never allowed them to cancel safety meetings and ignore basic rules about who touches the weapons and makes the transfers, etc. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I have to say that I do feel sorry for her. She clearly had a very intense, safety critical job to do and wasn't capable. Part of the reason she wasn't capable, I think, is that she had no support or assistants to help her in the role. She was waaaay out of her depth!

There is no way she should have been in sole charge of a firearms-heavy production with her level of experience. In that sense the producers (employers) are to blame because they are hiring unsuitable people and providing inadequate resources for her to do her job.

This is probably an extremely uncool and un-pc thing to say in this day and age but - she was a 24 year old woman working amongst massive male celebrity egos with zero support and probably with little confidence shown in her ability. Yes, she should have had more control and should have been with those guns everywhere they went but that's very easy to say from our detached position. Is it any wonder that this whole sorry situation played out as it did?

I agree with you. I think they hired her because of her inexperience. She had no clout and no ability to push back against the producer's cost cutting procedures.

 

[clearskies1]

That's a good point. The defense would want to do their own testing on the gun but it's broken now.

Would the defense ask that the FBI test results be excluded from the trial because of that? JMO.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything in this report about the gun being broken during testing. DocumentCloud

 

[Cool Cats]

My personal opinions aside as regards AB's handling of this and his attitude towards it (which I personally think are reprehensible), given the facts so far I think we may be going too far with the word "liar". Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he had the trigger depressed which makes his statement to the contrary utterly false, but a lie takes a positive decision to say something untrue. There is a small possibility - I do mean small - that he genuinely didn't realise it was pulled or simply doesn't remember it.

It's being very generous to him, though!

I'm not calling him a liar I said the jury might see him as a liar if he tells them he did not pull the trigger then an FBI specialist gets on the stand and says there is no way the gun can shoot without pulling the trigger.

He remembers just fine, he specifically remembers cocking the gun.

Just saying if he doesn't plea and goes to trial it could possibly prejudice some jurors if they think he is trying to deliberately minimize his actions in firing the gun.

 

[mickey2942]

Having worked in and been around the production business for many years, I think the main reason they hired her was because they knew they could boss her around and so they'd be able to over ride some of the expensive safety protocols and slash their budget. She was inexperienced and had no clout to push back against producers and the AD.

An experienced armourer would have never allowed them to cancel safety meetings and ignore basic rules about who touches the weapons and makes the transfers, etc. JMO

I don't think we can generalize "men vs. Women" so much as "force of personality". HG didn't have it. That is evident. When she was disrespected, she should have left. She didn't. That undermined her ability to enforce her authority.

I can barely get a dog to listen to me, let alone men. My daughter is 35 years younger than me, and runs a kitchen crew, when she says "jump", they do it. Her authority is absolute, and carries over to other parts of her life. Including the dog, who follows every command from her. And basically ignores me.

 

[PrairieWind]

Having worked in and been around the production business for many years, I think the main reason they hired her was because they knew they could boss her around and so they'd be able to over ride some of the expensive safety protocols and slash their budget. She was inexperienced and had no clout to push back against producers and the AD.

An experienced armourer would have never allowed them to cancel safety meetings and ignore basic rules about who touches the weapons and makes the transfers, etc. JMO

But she sold herself as able to do the job and signed the contract.

 

[RANCH]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything in this report about the gun being broken during testing. DocumentCloud

Hammer at full *advertiser censored* position With the hammer in the full *advertiser censored* position, Item 2 could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger while the working internal components were intact and functional. During this testing, portions of the trigger sear and cylinder stop fractured while the hammer was struck. The fracture of these internal components allowed the hammer to fall and the firing pin and detonated the primer. This was the only successful discharge during this testing and it was attributed to the fracture of internal components, not the failure of the firearm or safety mechanisms.

The FBI struck the hammer with enough force to fracture internal components. JMO.

 

[IQuestion]

IMO. the bottom line is there should NEVER be any real bullets on a movie set! If you want to teach actors what it feels like to experience a recoil, then take them to a regulated/licensed firing range!
If you don't like the sound a fake gun makes, add it in afterward during sound and music editing.
Also, if they are actors then ACT like you are shooting a gun... you don't nedd a real gun capable of firing real ammunition.
Yes there were problems involving safety issues. and here is the LINK.

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.

www.latimes.com

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO. the bottom line is there should NEVER be any real bullets on a movie set! If you want to teach actors what it feels like to experience a recoil, then take them to a regulated/licensed firing range!
If you don't like the sound a fake gun makes, add it in afterward during sound and music editing.
Also, if they are actors then ACT like you are shooting a gun... you don't nedd a real gun capable of firing real ammunition.
Yes there were problems involving safety issues. and here is the LINK.

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.

www.latimes.com

After this happened the show The Rookie announced that they would only use fake guns from them on.

So easy to do and as you say, real gunfire can so easily be edited in during sound and music editing.

 

[IQuestion]

Thank you for the information COOLCATS. At least some are honoring this poor woman's death by making changes that will make production work safer. I don't want anyone to think, "Oh just an unfortunate accident, so no need to accept responsibility for unsafe work conditions."??
More info and link:
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set that day said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges on Saturday.

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

It's not surprising that AB received gun safety training over the course of his long movie career.

It will be interesting to see if during this training AB was taught to never point a real live firing gun at a person but instead use a rubber non-firing gun during rehearsals and when practical. JMO.

Alec Baldwin says cinematographer told him to cock gun before fatal 'Rust' shooting: Legal filing

"Alec Baldwin once again is trying to avoid liability and accountability for his reckless actions," attorneys for Halyna Hutchins' family said in a statement.

abc7chicago.com

If they are insistent that they need some type of real live firing gun to make it seem realistic, then how can they film a scene that is realistic and not point the gun at a person? I honestly don’t get it.

 

[Tbone144]

If they are insistent that they need some type of real live firing gun to make it seem realistic, then how can they film a scene that is realistic and not point the gun at a person? I honestly don’t get it.

I thought I read on here, like thread #1 how they use camera angles, bullet proof glass and remote cameras for those kinds of shots. Even dummy rounds can be dangerous which is why gun safety is done regardless, if fire arms are used.

 

[RANCH]

If they are insistent that they need some type of real live firing gun to make it seem realistic, then how can they film a scene that is realistic and not point the gun at a person? I honestly don’t get it.

Camera angles, remote camera's and realistic looking fake guns. Especially during a rehearsal like this case. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

I thought I read on here, like thread #1 how they use camera angles, bullet proof glass and remote cameras for those kinds of shots. Even dummy rounds can be dangerous which is why gun safety is done regardless, if fire arms are used.

I agree with the exception of the dummy rounds. Dummy rounds are inert and totally safe. Blank rounds can be dangerous. JMO.

 

[clearskies1]

The FBI struck the hammer with enough force to fracture internal components. JMO.

Thank you!!

 

[Tbone144]

I agree with the exception of the dummy rounds. Dummy rounds are inert and totally safe. Blank rounds can be dangerous. JMO.

Sorry, you are correct. I mixed my verbiage, I meant blanks.

 

[Ceska]

I think there is an interview where AB claims that the victim told him to point the gun at her or the camera. Was it in the Stephanopolous interview? If I recall correctly, people were all over him for this explanation --i.e., how convenient that he blames the person who died. JMO.

I saw that interview and that is not what AB stated. He did not blame her.

 

[Ceska]

AB is also blaming the victim, Halyna Hutchins, for telling him were to point the gun, essentially saying it's her fault she got shot.

Common sense tells me you don't take a deadly weapon, pull the hammer back to the firing position, and point it at another person. As a producer he should have insisted that a remote camera be used in all situations were a desired camera angle puts people in the line of fire.

Alec Baldwin on 'Rust' shooting: 'Someone is responsible ... but I know it's not me'

Baldwin sat down with Stephanopoulos to sift through the series of events that led to Hutchins’ death.

abcnews.go.com

Where does AB blame HH? i watched AB's interviews, I never heard him blame her.
Is this just very recent (as of this week) that AB is now blaming HH?