All About Chloroform #3

[BetteDavisEyes]

It's strange how the mention of something can trigger the memory of an incident that has been long-forgotten. Some years ago, DH and I suspected that there were "rodents" nesting underneath our backyard deck. When neighbors mentioned that they had seen baby raccoons scavenging for food, we were certain that these critters were residing under our deck. We didn't want to call an exterminator but mentioned the problem to friends who told us to soak a rag in Clorox bleach and place it under the deck: The vapors would drive the raccoons away post haste

 

[Curious Me]

I could see this particular ICA deciding she needed chloroform and stealing it from the tattoo parlor or vet.

The Anthony family used non chlorine pool supplies.

 

[Roy23]

:rockeroint #1: the same physiological "stuff" would occur as the previous scenarios I stated.

:rockeroint #2: she searched the "making of chloroform".


And yep, chloroform CAN be made from "household chemicals" BUT it is an EXOTHERMIC (gives off heat) reaction and needs to be "created" in an ice bath and the product created will be in 2 aqueous layers and separating them is tricky. Then the chloroform produced has to be stored in a dark colored bottle, NOT plastic and utilized soon!:innocent:

Okay, so my thinking out of the box here has been debunked. Thank you for your help. It is hard to fathom that the body could create these results when a cause of death can't be determined. Maybe Chloroform was spilled inside the trunk cause only that makes sense to me.

 

[Jolynna]

FWIW - When I was 10 years old (55 now) our local hardware store had many raw chemicals available that are almost impossible to find now. Oxalic acid, alum, sulphur and yes CHLOROFORM.
My Dad caught rattlesnakes and would send them to the taxidermist (dead), He used chloroform to kill them so the carcass wouldn't be damaged.
I can tell you (FOR SURE) that it is very similar to starting fluid (ether). You can smell it in the air as it evaporates but you don't go to sleep (OR DIE) unless exposed to a concentration.
Pops used a 5 gallon bucket with a lid for the snakes. Splash chloroform on a wad of cotton, insert it and desired victom in a 5 gallon bucket, install lid and wait for the desired effect.
This is not the procedure I recommend for ICA. 5 MEGAVOLTS PLEASE.

The chloroform with a chamber method that your dad used to kill rattlesnakes can be found online as a way for taxidermists to kill animals without messing up the fur. The state of Massachusetts also uses a chamber with chloroform splashed on cotton to kill animals at their shelters. I've linked to the site here before.

I've often wondered if ICA found one of those websites while researching chloroform and if she used her car trunk as a chamber with a chloroform soaked rag (along with duct tape to make sure Caylee died).

There is not a doubt in my mind that ICA wanted Caylee dead so she could more freely chase Tony and to keep Cindy from ever having Caylee (if Cindy ever got Caylee, in ICA's mind that would be winning).

imo

 

[Harmony 2]

Are you trying to tell me something or not? Thanks!

A poster over on the side bar thread asked why the chloroform had not dissipated after the trunk had been opened several times and left to air out since chloroform evaporates easily when exposed to light.. The quote I posted explains that chloroform is heavier than air and settles to the ground/floor. I had posted this over at side bar and thought I would repost it here for reference. Thanks!

 

[Reality Orlando]

:twocents: Since chlorine is a gas it would be a difficult feat for the inmate to accomplish actually "dosing" her with chlorinated food. She could be "chlorinated" by giving her sodium hypochlorite aka bleach BUT it would NOT be over a long time period as this chemical would destroy the GI tract tissue including the oral cavity tissue (some folks consider the oral cavity as part of the GI tract). Same thing if she were "chlorinated" by force feeding HCl (hydrochloric acid). Both products IMHO would be a one and only time dose as the physical damage would be devastating, and IF this were her method of death before the duct tape, the damage of her epithelial layers (skin) would ELIMINATE a "sticking source". OH yeah, the perp would probably have burns on his/HER hands because the victim would regurgitate the fluids with projectile vomiting! :maddening::maddening:

Just curious, could the chlorine have been something like Clorox Cleanup with Chlorine? Perhaps someone did a bit more cleaning than they let on.

 

[crucibelle]

:rockeroint #1: the same physiological "stuff" would occur as the previous scenarios I stated.

:rockeroint #2: she searched the "making of chloroform".


And yep, chloroform CAN be made from "household chemicals" BUT it is an EXOTHERMIC (gives off heat) reaction and needs to be "created" in an ice bath and the product created will be in 2 aqueous layers and separating them is tricky. Then the chloroform produced has to be stored in a dark colored bottle, NOT plastic and utilized soon!:innocent:

I watched a couple of youtube videos where people were going thru this procedure (making chloroform) and it seems like a VERY involved process... especially the distillation part. Knowing how ICA is, I just CANNOT see her making chloroform, herself. That leaves me wondering where in the world she could have obtained it. I know it's possible she made it, but it just does not seem reasonable to me.

 

[lynxofsd]

...chloroform CAN be made from "household chemicals" BUT it is an EXOTHERMIC (gives off heat) reaction and needs to be "created" in an ice bath and the product created will be in 2 aqueous layers and separating them is tricky. Then the chloroform produced has to be stored in a dark colored bottle, NOT plastic and utilized soon!:innocent:

Joypath, thank you for the chemistry lesson.

Your points reillustrate why, IMO, there's no way Casey made this stuff from scratch. That doesn't discount the fact that there was a high concentration of chloroform in the trunk.

If it's so obvious that the chloroform concentration in the trunk is because Casey forced Caylee to inhale (or maybe spilled) a pure form of it that she procured somewhere, why doesn't the State of Florida just ask the good doctor to render the expert opinion that there is no other explanation for the chloroform to *be* in the trunk in such a high concentration?

Maybe they haven't because that dog doesn't quite hunt yet?

 

[Roy23]

A poster over on the side bar thread asked why the chloroform had not dissipated after the trunk had been opened several times and left to air out since chloroform evaporates easily when exposed to light.. The quote I posted explains that chloroform is heavier than air and settles to the ground/floor. I had posted this over at side bar and thought I would repost it here for reference. Thanks!

Thank You for taking the time to tell me this. It is appreciated.

 

[RammerJammer]

It's strange how the mention of something can trigger the memory of an incident that has been long-forgotten. Some years ago, DH and I suspected that there were "rodents" nesting underneath our backyard deck. When neighbors mentioned that they had seen baby raccoons scavenging for food, we were certain that these critters were residing under our deck. We didn't want to call an exterminator but mentioned the problem to friends who told us to soak a rag in Clorox bleach and place it under the deck: The vapors would drive the raccoons away post haste

So glad it was post haste, rather than "without haste!"

 

[Solomisskitty]

This evidence should be interesting.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/mostpopular/22578819/detail.html

 

[crucibelle]

I could see this particular ICA deciding she needed chloroform and stealing it from the tattoo parlor or vet.

The Anthony family used non chlorine pool supplies.

Oh, wow... I didn't know this! So it is true that chloroform can be obtained at a tattoo parlor or a vet?

 

[cecybeans]

I'm still hoping that she may have purchased something at Home Depot on those trips at the end of May 2008 that are coming into evidence. Especially if she bought a paint mask.

 

[Phoebeb]

Oh, wow... I didn't know this! So it is true that chloroform can be obtained at a tattoo parlor or a vet?

Where else is it available? It's used in tattoo parlors legitimately? I know she got that tattoo after Caylee died, but did she accompany any friends to a tattoo parlor that we know of?

 

[crucibelle]

Where else is it available? It's used in tattoo parlors legitimately? I know she got that tattoo after Caylee died, but did she accompany any friends to a tattoo parlor that we know of?

I have no idea, Pheobeb. The poster "Curious Me" mentioned it, and I was just wondering about it. IF ICA got chloroform from a tattoo parlor or a vet, NO, I do not think she obtained it legitimately. I think she probably stole it. The thing is, I wasn't aware that tattoo parlors or vets kept chloroform on hand, which is why I was asking about it.

 

[joypath]

Oh, wow... I didn't know this! So it is true that chloroform can be obtained at a tattoo parlor or a vet?

Chloroform is considered a controlled substance. The ability to purchase it requires one to "jump thru hoops" and DOCUMENTS, in fact the EPA has comparative % of use levels from year to year by the purchaser as a "control check". It should NOT be available in a tattoo parlor and the vet who has it missing from his/her stock (if they even USE it) would report the loss.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Chloroform is considered a controlled substance. The ability to purchase it requires one to "jump thru hoops" and DOCUMENTS, in fact the EPA has comparative % of use levels from year to year by the purchaser as a "control check". It should NOT be available in a tattoo parlor and the vet who has it missing from his/her stock (if they even USE it) would report the loss.

You can purchase chloroform very easily on the net - just google.

 

[Solomisskitty]

I'm still hoping that she may have purchased something at Home Depot on those trips at the end of May 2008 that are coming into evidence. Especially if she bought a paint mask.

And duct tape.

 

[beach]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133085"]Link to the Verified Professionals who post here.[/ame]

 

[panthera]

A poster over on the side bar thread asked why the chloroform had not dissipated after the trunk had been opened several times and left to air out since chloroform evaporates easily when exposed to light.. The quote I posted explains that chloroform is heavier than air and settles to the ground/floor. I had posted this over at side bar and thought I would repost it here for reference. Thanks!

Very much appreciated explanation. :hug: