Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

[BJsleuth]

Just thinking this one through. I thought that in the report on the afffidavit or in his lawyers statement GBC said that he wasn't a flight risk as he did not have a valid Australiam passport. I will look for that again.

However, if he was born in England, and lived in Zimbabwe he may have been eligible for either a European or Zimbabwean one. Maybe that is what they were searching for, another passport.

I was born in Australia as were my parents but I have an English passport because my Grandparents were born in the UK.

 

[Mani]

Mani, what are the cloths on the ground in the third photo. And in the final photo there is a slab with numbers on it. Do you know what that is? Thanks

Seeking - cloths have been described in another post and see possumhearts comments about gardening etc. I think she has a point.
I don't believe QPS would leave rubbish on that bank. IMO

Can you quote the name of the photo to me re the slab with numbers?

 

[BJsleuth]

Also the house was a crime scene from when Allison went missing until about a week later (is that right or was it a crime scene until after she was found?). It was reported that they found some items of interests (MSM) near Allison's body. Maybe they were looking for rope, carpet, tarps or anything that would connect whatever they found near the body or on the body to something in the house?

I agree, that's what I was thinking when I said "searching for an object".

 

[Firesnake]

Firstly, I would really like to thank Mani, Minnie and Indromum for a great afternoon!

The four of us (plus a lovely husband) travelled to Kholo Creek today. First and foremost we wanted to acknowledge Allison. We added lots of artificial sunflowers (not as pretty as the real ones, but will last) to the cross and also placed a few bunches of beautiful yellow flowers along the bridge. We took lots of photos - Mani is keen to upload these.

We also did lots of sleuthing! It was such an advantage to actually be under that bridge, in the exact surroundings. On top of that, we were able to bounce ideas off each other, discuss and dismiss theories and come to some conclusions as to what may have happened to Allison.

The original photos of when Allison was found proved invaluable, as we were eventually able to pinpoint the exact resting place of her body. This was after much debate about scrub vrs mud, tree lopping, high tide vrs low tide and the pylons bases (Mani's hubby knows the exact term!) height from the bridge etc etc. From the position that we think her body came to rest, we found it very difficult to believe that she was either carried down there, or was thrown off the bridge.

The bush would have been way too dense and the slope way too steep for anyone (even Tarzan) to have carried a body down - even with help. The bush has been cleared under the bridge now, but the other side is extremely thick and near impossible to manipulate (as one brave group member found out) so the side that Allison was found on, would have originally been the same. We saw much of the evidence of chopped trees, scrub around us - indicating just how thick it would have been.

We then turned to the 'thrown off the bridge' theory, but after much discussion also found this hard to imagine, for three main reasons.
1. It's such a long way down! Lots of broken bones.
2. There would have been too much risk of being seen - the traffic (even in the early hours would have been fairly regular)
3. From where we looked (Allison's resting place) you could see the Brisbane River - would GBC have taken such a risk as to throw Allison into the creek (so clopse to the BR) with the possibility of her floating away, never to be seen again ........ and hence no insurance pay out???

SO, we came to the conclusion - reluctantly - that she had floated down the creek to this position. It actually made sense to us - looking upwards in the creek. Her resting place is so far down this bank, too far down, and too close to the Brisbane River.

Then we went for a drive up Wirrabarra Drv to the Scout Hall. OMGosh! There are atleast 2 houses if not 3 that are very close to the main gate of the camp. If GBC brought her up here, he was either very brave or very stupid, as a car would be seen/heard from these houses. If they are not heavy sleepers (like GBC!!!!!) then they would have seen the car/s and someone unlocking the padlocked gate for sure - especially with dogs going off.

At the end of this road is another padlocked gate (we're quietly positive that keys may have been accessible to members of the scouting org!) There are no houses around here and the creek is a small distance, and a drop, but no dense scrub. Minnie walked out and investigated this one - she's the expert - and is knowledgable about this area - along with Mani's lovely husband. But overall, we wondered if Ugly Creek (near Scout Camp) is the location that Allison's body was placed in and washed down to Kholo Creek Bridge.

So, in the end, we found it hard to believe that Allison was carried or thrown off Kholo Creek Bridge. We're fairly sure that she may have washed down with the downpour that we received the weekend before she was found. But then again, we also wondered how GBC/and accomplice drove past the neighbours at the main Scout Camp entrance? Maybe he/they got away with it? Or maybe he/they drove to the end, where Minnie went out to?

From there, we travelled to NBC and EBC's house. I was personally amazed at how close to the road their house actually was. Nothing like the shots on MSM. The animal skulls are very much 'in your face' if you know what I mean! The white Prado, parked on the curbside, with number plates 'SETTLED' was quite surreal.

Minnie and Mani travelled on to Brookfield then, and Indromum and I went home.

I really appreciated this afternoon in more ways than just one - meeting some gorgeous people that are now my friends (with faces), being able to sleuth, being able to sleuth as a group and debate, dismiss and discuss what happened, and most importantly, paying a special TRIBUTE TO ALLISON! The cross looks amazing - so bright - and so does the bridge. We got a few 'toots' while we there too! Thanks locals!

IMO, JMO, MOO. RIP, justice and love Allison!!

Thanks for all this information Bellgirl!

You make reference to Ugly Creek. Is this creek accessible from the scout camp?

I recall a post a fair while ago now where the poster said it had made sense to them that she had been placed in this creek and washed up to where she was found!

Are you saying you think this is more of a possibility now you have been there yourself?

I hope to go to the bridge myself at some stage to get a better understanding Of the area (no one I know will come with me. They think I am obsessed too. Maybe they are right as they have seen the state of my house over the last few months) Lol

 

[Nads]

I don't have enough words or emoticons to say how thankful I am that Bellgirl, Mani, Minni and Indromum went out to the bridge today! THANK YOU ALL!!!

Even though I am totally familiar with the area but now living up North has meant I could not go there myself, and Mani's photos, Bellgirl's post, Indromum's constant attention to the flowers, and Mini's presence as another FNQ girl has made my day.

Allison has touched so many of us, and I so wish that justice will be served.

I am also grateful for the fact that her death has brought me in touch with all of you. It must be one of those nights, and I haven't had a drink, and my hormones are in control (haha so OT) but I am so teary, but in a good way. Not very Rational!!

I'm glad you all met there. I would have loved to have been a part of it.

Ages ago I suggested that some of us meet up as a tribute to Allison, but gosh I was poo pooed and received the weirdest pm's as if I was suggesting something super dangerous and ridiculous! :banghead:

Anyway, glad you did it!

 

[Woof]

I am wondering whether Allison's friends knew she was depressed because she told them. The fact that Allison's mother was not aware makes me think that it would be unlikely Allison would have told her friends.
I have suffered from deep depression a number of times and those closest to me (my husband and my mother) pick up on it straight away. Even my doctor says he can tell its back as soon as I walk in the room. I can't believe Allison's mum or sister would not have known she was suffering from a depression deep enough to cause people to mention it. My mum can even tell by my voice on the phone.
This is difficult to talk about, but at my worst, when I was in so much emotional pain and turmoil, when to go to sleep and never wake up would have been a relief, I have NEVER EVER considered suicide. As a mother I could not inflict such pain on my children and family to escape my pain.
IMO, even if Allison was depressed, as a mother she could not and would not have been so selfish as to inflict such pain on her children.
And if the defence were to use it as a strategy , shame on them and I hope the jury would realise that this could not have happened. I think that GBC thinks the depression angle would be believable because he does not have the selflessness that Allison possessed.

Same! A doctor or dear friend or mother would pick up the change instantly. And if she had depression the way OW talked about it then there would be doctor testimony to prove or disprove it.

 

[BJsleuth]

This was reported in the CM re passports the day after the bail hearing:

Quote:
The police are objecting to Mr Baden-Clay getting bail because they say he could interfere with potential witnesses.

Mr Davis said his client should have bail so he can continue caring for his children.

He said Mr Baden-Clay had no valid passport at the moment.

Mr Davis said there has been no cause of death, no evidence putting him at Kholo Creek, no sightings of the car and no evidence of a time of death.

Mr Baden-Clay doesn't but Mr Overland or some other person might have. MOO

 

[Seeking]

Seeking - cloths have been described in another post and see possumhearts comments about gardening etc. I think she has a point.
I don't believe QPS would leave rubbish on that bank. IMO

Can you quote the name of the photo to me re the slab with numbers?

Thanks Mani. The photo that I am referring to is the vertical view, and I believe that the numbers are at the base of the pylon. It might just be some numbering system for the pylon. I was just curios and thought you may know. I really appreciate the photo's and the information about your excursion with the others to this area today.

Possumheart is probably right about a gardening/ or minimising erosion reason for the cloths unless they have just washed down with high tide at some point.

 

[linette]

Mr Baden-Clay doesn't but Mr Overland or some other person might have. MOO

Something tells me that, in the end, this could all be far more creepier than we think. Not good.

In the beginning I was thinking of it being a bit more simple than it seems to be now.

 

[Firesnake]

I'm glad you all met there. I would have loved to have been a part of it.

Ages ago I suggested that some of us meet up as a tribute to Allison, but gosh I was poo pooed and received the weirdest pm's as if I was suggesting something super dangerous and ridiculous! :banghead:

Anyway, glad you did it!

I remember that Nads. Maybe one day for those that are interested we will meet one day.

I have realised after reading through all threads since day 1 although I haven't contributed much that there are some wonderful, caring people in this crazy,busy world we call life.

 

[marlywings]

Mr Baden-Clay doesn't but Mr Overland or some other person might have. MOO

Just my opinion but I think at least three of them were planning on doing a runner if GBC had been given bail....in their utter arrogance they would have expected him to get bail...failed!!!!...

 

[Nads]

So the group who went there today who thought you couldn't go through the scrub to get a body down to the creek bank, wouldn't that explain the scratches on his face and torso?

 

[linette]

Just my opinion but I think at least three of them were planning on doing a runner if GBC had been given bail....in their utter arrogance they would have expected him to get bail...failed!!!!...

May I ask which 3 you're thinking of? And do you think he would have taken the girls with him?

 

[Rational]

Mr Baden-Clay doesn't but Mr Overland or some other person might have. MOO

Maybe that was one of the reasons too behind the beard.

I read in one of KeentoKnows links to an information booklet for prisoners that they have to maintain their hairstyle and Facial hair in jail unless they have permission to change as they will have to be issued with a new ID card (at their own costs).

Oh how the mighty have fallen!!!

 

[linette]

If he had taken off while on bail, would he have gone to a country that would allow him to stay there and that we had no jurasdiction over? No exile requests, etc?

 

[JK673]

Me neither Possumheart. I hate the thought. However, all four of us concluded that we think she has been washed down the creek.

We looked at whether she had been left there, rolled off the bridge or floated down and the consensus was that Allison has floated down.

What led us to that conclusion is that we didn't think that the body could land were it was without visible signs of injury i.e. broken bones - so we don't think she has been dropped from height and we don't believe she could have been dragged down (but will stand corrected if that is the case) due to the undergrowth and the fact that the place where her body was found regularly goes underwater due to the tidal nature of the creek. IMO

no offence but I will be awaiting the QPS and professional forensic scientists view on how she got there, after all it will all be based on physics of motion and as far as I know, noone here is a specialist in that area.

I have taught forensic science previously and can tell you that what lay people may think obvious, science can refute. In order to come to any conclusion, one MUST have all the variables, and without an exact placement marked as to where the body was found and no exact measure of height and flow of the river, it can be anyone's guess.

I think this thread is getting more like an episode of CSI only more difficult, remember the KISS principle, after all it is alleged that GBC did it.

We need to also remember that you will more likely break bones in a fall because you "stiffen" up for landing (a conscious person cannot help but stiffen up), if she was unconscious (or already dead - forgive me) then her body would be limp as anything and therefore - less likely to break bones, etc. In saying that, you can still break bones without external signs of injury. And remember the 'no visible signs of injury' would mean as they found her, what about once they moved her. You never know.

Also, I have driven past there around 930-10pm at night on a THURSDAY night (late night shopping) and very, very few cars travel that way at that time, so that is why I believe there is a very high possibly of placing her there.

 

[Mani]

How wide is the Brisbane River at that point roughly? In the photo it doesn't look that wide compared to what it is like in the St. Lucia area and beyond.

Seeking, may I suggest that you go onto Google Maps and look at the satellite view - there might be a scale on it.

 

[marlywings]

May I ask which 3 you're thinking of? And do you think he would have taken the girls with him?

No as the girls were off their hands & thankfully in safe hands of the Dickies

...the three...GBC, NBC & EBC...

 

[marlywings]

Maybe that was one of the reasons too behind the beard.

I read in one of KeentoKnows links to an information booklet for prisoners that they have to maintain their hairstyle and Facial hair in jail unless they have permission to change as they will have to be issued with a new ID card (at their own costs).

Oh how the mighty have fallen!!!

I think they fell flat on their faces courtesy of Inspector Ainsworth & all his good men!!!

 

[linette]

No as the girls were off their hands & thankfully in safe hands of the Dickies

...the three...GBC, NBC & EBC...

Yep, the same three I was thinking of. I thought once he got out on bail that he may have got the girls back? If he does get bailed, would it be an automatic thing the girls would be returned to him? ... I thought maybe the Dickie's had them because he wasn't around to care for them. There was some talk on here about hoping he wouldn't get them back. The other thing that made me think that was when the application stated he needed to care for the girls.